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Halo Infinite Discussion

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On 6/3/2020 at 5:17 AM, NavG123 said:

If you want to talk about how the player has gradually been made powerless, talk about how you can't drive a vehicle with the objective like you could in CE.

I actually think developers have become powerless. Not only are publishers controlling the game far too much, but publishers of AAA games are so obsessed with catering for everyone that it's become impossible to design interesting worlds and gameplay around how much power the "player" has.

So much power that everything is easy. It becomes path of least resistance. In Ghost Recon Wildlands you don't spend hours refining different techniques, you just find what works within 5 minutes and spend the next 4 hours playing that exact same way. There's no incentive not to.

Halo 5 just had precision weapons in campaign. There is not other viable way to play (Legendary). You sit back, shoot, shield recharge. Pop out, shoot, shield recharge. Stop and start. Sprint is the same, you run and can't shoot. Stop and start. You don't think what weapons you need, you just get two precisions weapons. 343 "balanced" this by making them run out of ammo every 0.5 seconds so you're forced to pick up inferior weapons just to survive until the next precision weapon.

All that movement makes it difficult for AI to hit you, so why not make all the weapons hitscan or have homing bullets. Player movement too much? Don't give the enemies wind-up melees you can dodge with skill/knowledge but instant-kill unavoidable melee (this further encourages precision stop and start gameplay). 

Every single drop of CPU went into getting SiXtY fRaMeS pEr SeCoNd (despite Reach looking better and running at 4k on the One X at 60fps)... so the AI are not only poorly designed but dumb as rocks. Enemies BARELY jump the way out of Grenades anymore, let alone have interest mechanics.

If you haven't seen this yet I'd highly recommend it. This is a common trend in games.

 

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1 hour ago, HeX Reapers said:

Juggernaut is a great game mode.

Juggernaut lends itself well to customization.  Variants like Ninjanaut already exist, giving the juggernaut Camo and Radar.  

What are some other ways in which Juggernaut could be modified to produce a unique custom gametype?  

For example, the juggernaut could gain access to unique paths.  @MultiLockOn‘s map could remove the key from the map and only assign it to the active juggernaut.  

 

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2 hours ago, Shekkles said:

 

 

 

It seems for every 1 step we take forwards in graphics we take 2 backwards in game design.

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1 hour ago, Mow said:

 

It seems for every 1 step we take forwards in graphics we take 2 backwards in game design.

Weapons breaking every 5 minutes and Malaria were not good game design.

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21 hours ago, Jake Teh Nub said:

Weapons breaking every 5 minutes and Malaria were not good game design.

I mean it was more of a general statement about gaming than it was about Far Cry in particular...

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9 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

I did read it and my point still stands. Not like a forge map with those spawns couldn’t work with it. Sure a little tuning could do the trick.

dude seriously stop thinking I’m not reading what you write/type. I read it and I still made my comment you just think I have poor reading skills when I don’t.

Lol, I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, because honestly, poor reading comprehension would be more understandable than thinking H3 VIP in MM had settings that "weren't the problem".  

It was played offense/defense and the round ended if the VIP died once.
The rounds were 3-4 minutes long.
The spawns were Slayer spawns instead of Flag/Bomb spawns, so the offense could spawn very close to you, very quickly into the round.
The VIP's shield took about 15 seconds to come back.

No, you're right though. The settings weren't the problem. This is fine. :wutface:

I'd rather be illiterate than look at that and think it's okay. At least then I'd have an excuse.

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7 hours ago, Jake Teh Nub said:

Weapons breaking every 5 minutes and Malaria were not good game design.

Both those can be refined or changed. Far Cry 5 (and all Ubisoft games since Watchdogs) feel like the creative team were fired and it was left to solely the engineering team and suits.

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7 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Both those can be refined or changed. Far Cry 5 (and all Ubisoft games since Watchdogs) feel like the creative team were fired and it was left to solely the engineering team and suits.

So I actually was at Ubisoft Redstorm a few months back and learned a lot about how Ubi operates.

 

They're a massive company with tons of studios around the globe, way more than any other publisher. Every Ubisoft game you play is made by no less than 3 different Ubisoft studios minimum. They basically have very small teams start a project and periodically show it to corporate, and they reach certain thresholds where they're gifted a bunch of extra bodies to help them work on it. So a small team of 15 might show a good foundation for a project and then Ubisoft corporate says "good work, here's 30 people from our Singapore team, and 60 from our Montreal team." Then they do a bit more and "unlock" more developers. I think this kinda reveals why every Ubisoft game is the same damn thing and kinda fits into every cliche of an average open world rpg. They just have massive teams and groups jump into every project and gang bang it with PROBABLY way less communication than most developers would (not just because they're remote but these are tons of different countries / languages working together). This also explains why they can pump out like 3 AAAA games a year that all look pretty impressive. They've got a pretty unique luxury that no one else has in that they've got hordes of developers ready to jump on any project that needs help. 

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When h3 comes out can someone here make a no spread mod? I want to experience h3 without BR, carbine and pistol spread. This would add a lot more consistency to h3 and if popularized people would play it in customs and maybe have 343 notice it and add it in mm. Don’t do anything to weapon damage, speed etc just remove the random spread from the precision weapons is all I desire 

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What would you think of a 2-per match powerup that allows you to swap your held weapon with a selected teammate from across the map? Keep in mind that I haven't really thought it through, just something that popped into my mind

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Just now, _Synapse said:

What would you think of a 2-per match powerup that allows you to swap your held weapon with a selected teammate from across the map? Keep in mind that I haven't really thought it through, just something that popped into my mind

It’d be tough to use with randoms. And when it came up, imagine your teammates timing it so that they could steal your weapon. And if it requires permission, it would never be granted, and no one would go for it.

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21 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

What would you think of a 2-per match powerup that allows you to swap your held weapon with a selected teammate from across the map? Keep in mind that I haven't really thought it through, just something that popped into my mind

The point of pick ups is to get players to move.  A mechanic that allows a player to sit in one spot and have weapons delivered to him goes against this concept.  

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About the grappling hook. If there is a hook in this game please let it be an equipment. Equipment didn’t break classic halo and to many it was a good addition. The main problem with equipment in h3 was they were heavily unbalanced. The only power up that was close to balanced was probably power drain as you could dodge it, and if you backed down the 4 second shield recharge rate of h3 gave you a good chance to fight back. It was health and bubble shield that broke the sandbox. If they worked like their armor ability counter parts, then they’d of not been so bad. 

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2 hours ago, Hard Way said:

It’d be tough to use with randoms. And when it came up, imagine your teammates timing it so that they could steal your weapon. And if it requires permission, it would never be granted, and no one would go for it.

I was thinking more along the lines of only being able to use the powerup to transfer your primary (if it's a tier 2 or 3 weapon) to a teammate. 

To elaborate, the powerup could only allow the user to transfer a higher tier weapon to a teammate with a lower tier weapon held out. For example, Player A with the powerup and rockets held can swap with Player B while B has a plasma pistol held out. If Player A had a plasma pistol and the powerup while Player B has rockets, A can't just pluck the rockets from B (I think it's for the best anyways because having the ability to a) freely move a power weapon across the movement span of 4 players and b) allowing players to take weapons from others freely are both broken). 

Rather than a powerup, I'd make it one-use equipment. Since it's one-use conditional transfer, I think that giving it a 2 minute static respawn wouldn't be too bad. 

I like the idea of it (in theory, at least) because you enable more CE-esque map design (where power items are placed in disadvantageous parts of the map instead of right next to power positions), and it increases the pressure to keep control of power weapons. 

The aspects that I do find a bit cheap are that being at the receiving end may seem a bit unfair in casual play with randoms (seeing weapons teleport into your enemy's hands is a bit jarring), and that it may be a bit snowballish even in a comp setting.  

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The grappling hook thing is just such a bizarre consideration on 343's part. I think we've discussed ways in which said feature could work in the game (specific hook-points only, inclusion via equipment pickup, etc.), but just from a "lore" perspective, why the hell is/was this even being considered? I know, I know: gameplay should always supersede canon consistency. But a grappling hook is just completely out of left field; there's no connection to the broader Halo universe whatsoever, at least as far as I'm aware of. Why would a technologically advanced human civilization, one that already has jetpack technology, need grappling hooks to traverse different environments? Stealth missions, maybe? At least Spartan Abilities make sense within the sci-fi/space opera setting. Grappling hooks are just completely weird to me.

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37 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

I was thinking more along the lines of only being able to use the powerup to transfer your primary (if it's a tier 2 or 3 weapon) to a teammate. 

To elaborate, the powerup could only allow the user to transfer a higher tier weapon to a teammate with a lower tier weapon held out. For example, Player A with the powerup and rockets held can swap with Player B while B has a plasma pistol held out. If Player A had a plasma pistol and the powerup while Player B has rockets, A can't just pluck the rockets from B (I think it's for the best anyways because having the ability to a) freely move a power weapon across the movement span of 4 players and b) allowing players to take weapons from others freely are both broken). 

Rather than a powerup, I'd make it one-use equipment. Since it's one-use conditional transfer, I think that giving it a 2 minute static respawn wouldn't be too bad. 

I like the idea of it (in theory, at least) because you enable more CE-esque map design (where power items are placed in disadvantageous parts of the map instead of right next to power positions), and it increases the pressure to keep control of power weapons. 

The aspects that I do find a bit cheap are that being at the receiving end may seem a bit unfair in casual play with randoms (seeing weapons teleport into your enemy's hands is a bit jarring), and that it may be a bit snowballish even in a comp setting.  

Still not a big fan of this. Say I just shot my second rocket so I have to reload. I just got a kill, but I'm one shot. I know an enemy is near me with full shield and teammates are just respawning or nowhere near the fight to help, so instead of even trying to fight I transfer my Rockets to teammate so that when I die the opponents can't get the power weapon. Kinda BS IMO.

Plus if this is a one time powerup, there's no incentive for the other team to go for it if they didn't get the power weapon since it doesn't provide them anything, and if the powerup is too far away from the power weapon spawn then it seems like it wouldn't be worth it to go for the powerup. By the time I got there with my power weapon I'll probably be out of ammo. Unless you spawn the powerup right next to the power weapon (or just include it with every power weapon pickup) but that will just make what I said above feel like even more BS since it could happen every time.

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14 minutes ago, JordanB said:

Still not a big fan of this. Say I just shot my second rocket so I have to reload. I just got a kill, but I'm one shot. I know an enemy is near me with full shield and teammates are just respawning or nowhere near the fight to help, so instead of even trying to fight I transfer my Rockets to teammate so that when I die the opponents can't get the power weapon. Kinda BS IMO.

Plus if this is a one time powerup, there's no incentive for the other team to go for it if they didn't get the power weapon since it doesn't provide them anything, and if the powerup is too far away from the power weapon spawn then it seems like it wouldn't be worth it to go for the powerup. By the time I got there with my power weapon I'll probably be out of ammo. Unless you spawn the powerup right next to the power weapon (or just include it with every power weapon pickup) but that will just make what I said above feel like even more BS since it could happen every time.

Man, I didn't actually think about this. Good catch

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1 hour ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

The grappling hook thing is just such a bizarre consideration on 343's part. I think we've discussed ways in which said feature could work in the game (specific hook-points only, inclusion via equipment pickup, etc.), but just from a "lore" perspective, why the hell is/was this even being considered? I know, I know: gameplay should always supersede canon consistency. But a grappling hook is just completely out of left field; there's no connection to the broader Halo universe whatsoever, at least as far as I'm aware of. Why would a technologically advanced human civilization, one that already has jetpack technology, need grappling hooks to traverse different environments? Stealth missions, maybe? At least Spartan Abilities make sense within the sci-fi/space opera setting. Grappling hooks are just completely weird to me.

A grappling hook screams Brute technology to me.  A rusty chain with a barbed spike tip fits the Brute aesthetic.  Rather than a piece of standalone equipment, I think a grappling gun would work better as an alt fire on the Spiker.  One pick up that can both deal damage and enhance mobility.  

 

Shooting an enemy in the back could pull him in for a backsmack.  Shooting a vehicle could pull you forward to hijack it.  

 

Placing the grappling hook on the spiker prevents players from spidermanning with a power weapon.  You can fly in through a window but you won’t be immediately one shotting an enemy as you do.  Balance.  

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@_Synapse

Your goal is to transfer a weapon between two players.  You are trying to accomplish it with new player abilities.  Might I suggest, consider enabling weapon transfer through map elements.  A pneumatic tube could have a weapon dropped into it and spit it out on the other side of the map.  All this would require in terms of player abilities is a simple weapon-drop mechanic which could be activated by holding Y.

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Normally I’m gameplay-over-aesthetics guy, but turning maps into the drive-thru at the bank feels way too silly for whatever nuance it could add to gameplay. Most people don’t want to part ways with a good weapon, and it would break the map in oddball.

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@Hard Way

You can already take objectives in vehicles, through teleporters, and drop them in man cannons but a pneumatic tube is a step too far?  I think a route that items can travel on but players cannot could add an interesting dynamic to a map.  If an enemy is heading towards the p-tube you could send a teammate to its exit.  Certain portions of the tube could be destroyed to open new exits causing the item to end up at a different location than it would have originally.  

 

I disagree about a p-tube breaking oddball.  The mechanic essentially already exists when you play the ball.  Toss the ball off the map and it ends up somewhere else.  

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When I mentioned the grapple hook it was to defend equipments possible return. I don’t want this hook to be some permanent spartan ability non sense. If armor abilities were only pick ups everything be fine. We wouldn’t have to adjust maps, we wouldn’t have to have extreme bullet magnetism and aim assist on every damn gun. 343 wants to keep halo modern and never once realized how to go about this for whatever reason. There isn’t any problem with armor abilities and equipment it’s just the fact since we’ve spawned with that garbage for 3 games straight the map design gets cucked because of it and in h5s and to a small extent h4 the weapons are too over powered! 
we could still keep sprint in halo if it was a pick up only! They wouldn’t need to make maps bigger since a one time use ability doesn’t break the map! 

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17 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

They've got a pretty unique luxury that no one else has in that they've got hordes of developers ready to jump on any project that needs help. 

Yeah if their luxury is "make the same generic sandbox game twice a year even down to the UI". They even delayed all their games because they realised that's all they were doing.

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