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13 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

I don't get the praise for H4's story at all. It's like a particularly shitty marvel movie. Bland story, terrible cinematic style, confused theme, bad dialogue, a complete absence of symbolism that made the past games good, and awful character design. 

The last one in particular is the worst. Bungie weren't masters at their craft, but characters were mostly just aesthetics in the backdrop of the total story, and they did their job. 

Halo 4's "rich character interactions" are mostly just overly melodramatic whining interrupted by the (somewhat contextually comical) monotone robot responses from the green guy. The didact was a total joke, and I'll never get why people like him so much. He was so one dimensionally evil that even a shitty marvel movie may have beaten him out in terms of depth.

Halo 5's story is worse, for all the reasons highlighted above times 1.5. 

It's not that previous Halo game stories are masterpieces of literature, either. Characters are pretty simple, stories have parts ranging from decent to pretty terrible, though the cinematic style was lightheartedly distinct and quite characteristic of the series campaigns. 

What they really had going for them, were aesthetics, scale, soundtrack, and overall symbolism. The story was an excuse for you to explore whatever cool environments the devs wanted you to explore, while shooting at aliens. At the same time, whatever symbolism you could take from the relatively simple stories made the games feel special. 

Not that it even matters though, I'd take a Halo game with the story of a porno if it had a good PvP. 

You hating marvel movies tells me your taste first hand. 
Do you  takes a character like Voldemort or Sauron and says they’re bland. You over simplify it and honestly can’t appreciate a good story. Bad guy wants to take over the world because he’s evil is how you do things huh? You’re also using the term one dimensional completely wrong. 

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@Shekkles why’s a video game needing third party material so bad? In a video game like an FPS game people don’t give a crap about the story at least most don’t. The gameplay sucked mostly because of the promethions. They’re boring AF to fight. But the story behind didacts reasoning, the promethions creation is very good. Maybe it’s just me but I’m a huge lore guy for things I watch, read and play.

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Imagine posting on a Halo forum every day, and believing most Halo players don’t give a crap about the story.

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I could be totally wrong about this, but weren't "the Forerunners" originally supposed to be humans? If not, then maybe my distaste for the post-H3 campaigns needs some rethinking. I just felt the shift toward making the Forerunners an entirely different species sort of devalued a lot of the mysticism around them from the original campaign; some things don't need to be explained.

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3 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Imagine posting on a Halo forum every day, and believing most Halo players don’t give a crap about the story.

I don’t tbh. Most will only mention the gameplay part but not so much the lore or story itself. Lol this forum doesn’t even speak about halo on the average and I was literally away from this for a month so don’t go attacking me. 

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1 hour ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

I could be totally wrong about this, but weren't "the Forerunners" originally supposed to be humans? If not, then maybe my distaste for the post-H3 campaigns needs some rethinking. I just felt the shift toward making the Forerunners an entirely different species sort of devalued a lot of the mysticism around them from the original campaign; some things don't need to be explained.

Explaining the forerunners and flood was stupid. Especially retconning humans to be a super advanced race on par with them only to be busted down after some shinanigans.

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rea(rlong)mis is proof Thanos was right. 

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3 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

rea(rlong)mis is proof Thanos was right. 

If only a finger snap could make half the Halo games disappear.  

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Even the infinity gauntlet cant make halo games with sprint remain relevant 

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9 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

@Shekkles why’s a video game needing third party material so bad? In a video game like an FPS game people don’t give a crap about the story at least most don’t. The gameplay sucked mostly because of the promethions. They’re boring AF to fight. But the story behind didacts reasoning, the promethions creation is very good. Maybe it’s just me but I’m a huge lore guy for things I watch, read and play.

Halo is one of if not the only FPS that anybody at school knew what the story was. Halo's campaign and story wasn't like just some COD campaign for good single player gameplay. It's the only FPS story that has ever caught my attention enough to ever read anything outside of the game. And Halo is the only reason I ever bought an original Xbox and I would think that is the case for a lot of other people as well. Halo is far from just a good FPS. Any discussion about the Halo games don't just talk about multiplayer, the campaign is always included in them. Even when you do find someone who likes the Halo 5 multiplayer they'll usually make a comment about the campaign not being good. I assume you're on reddit because you talk about other forums so don't pretend like the Halo campaign and COD campaign can be comparable.

14 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

You know I honestly don’t understand the hate for h4 from you guys. Many people in the halo community will agree h4 campaign was amazing. The story and concept was awesome to me. Also the Didact was like the gravemimd such an amazing villain. I also just enjoyed it because it was cortana trying to make chief understand he’s not a machine. In the end he lost his friend, who more or less helped him realize that. 

I think you hear a lot more love about the Halo 4 campaign 1. because the game released 8 years ago - pretty much every Halo (campaign and multiplayer) gets more love the older the game gets. Reach launch? Sucks. Reach 10 years later? "Oh c'mon the game wasn't that bad, Reach was so fun, please release on MCC." H2 Campaign launch? This game sucks I can't believe we didn't get to finish the fight. Today? Some think it's the best of the trilogy.

2. A lot of people who did hate the Halo 4 campaign and multiplayer, then went through the MCC launch, then had to put up with Halo 5's terrible campaign and non-classic multiplayer gameplay, and now it's 5 years later with no new game, probably aren't even involved in the Halo community anymore. They might pay a little attention to Infinite news but they won't be wasting their time talking about games they've hated for the last 10 years.

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Halo 4 had some decent dialogue in the small scope and individual scenes, some of the Didacts lines when he awakens are pretty cool. Chiefs interactions with Lasky. But it's notably different than Bungies approach which was anything but realism or drama, its like going from this home cooked meal to this very, by the book Michael Bay Hollywood movie. (I'm aware I just compared cooking to cinema bare with me).

 

I think the holistic story was a pretty cliche sci-fi summer flic.  Like, really really bad. If they packaged some of the smaller elements like the chief/cortana thing or chief/lasky, chief/angry-shipmaster into a much more compelling story arc it probably would've been good. 

 

 

BUT. They didn't. So it isn't. 

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Halo 4's campaign boardroom brainstorm probably went like this:

"Do we have good Chief/Cortana scenes?"

"Yes, we do."

"Great, ship it."

"Uh well we kind of need a plot too?"

"Right. Whatever. The Didact and the Librarian got a divorce or something. Del Rio. He's angry. Ship it."

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It probably went more like

"Hey how do we make this as conventional as possible in order to get an entirely new audience?"

"I gotchu boss"

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5 hours ago, JordanB said:

think you hear a lot more love about the Halo 4 campaign 1. because the game released 8 years ago - pretty much

No one thing I’ve literally heard for these 8 years was the story of h4 was good and it’s MP terrible. 

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6 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Explaining the forerunners and flood was stupid. Especially retconning humans to be a super advanced race on par with them only to be busted down after some shinanigans.

Lol glassing one of their home worlds because the flood had infected a good portion of it unknowing to the four runners, whom considered it an act of war. Idk about you but that’s actually a good plot move. So the four runners and humans enter a war that last for X amount of years. After humanity is destroyed the fourrunners, discover the flood and what humanity was actually doing but unfortunately it was far too late. The didact seethed with rage believed it was the humans who not only slaughtered millions of his kind but brought the flood to their shores. 

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Reading these comments on H4's story reminds me that knowing what makes a good multiplayer doesn't translate to knowing what makes good writing. I guess I'll be 343's sole defender in that regard.

First of all, having a good art style or soundtrack doesn't make a good story. Read a book. A book has none of those things and yet they often have the best stories. What makes a good story is the script and direction. Not that this is to undervalue art or music, those things have their place.

What makes H4 have the best campaign (story-wise at least) is that the characters actually talk and act like human beings and not placeholders for action figures to be sold afterwards, and the events of the plot is fairly subversive and unpredictable, unlike the other games.

H4 is the only Halo game to my knowledge where characters talk about and reflect on things that isn't the main mission (ODST kinda does this). Every once in a while Chief will ask Cortana how she's doing, or Cortana will start talking about the sun because she can't "experience" it like a normal human, or when Lasky tells Chief that soldiers are just people, or they'll reference the Spartan-II program. It's a lot like the Halo books.

cczi950kb4z41.png

So if you didn't like Chief in H4, stay away from the books. (I'm talking about the Eric Nylund books especially, like Fall of Reach or First Strike; Ghosts of Onyx, too). In the books Chief gets angry, gets sad, thinks of the past, even disobeys direct orders from the authorities if it goes against his conscience. H4 Chief is a lot like book Chief; like when Chief acts like a boss and tells that dick bag Del Rio "no, sir." Or when Cortana is having trouble retrieving some specific information because of her rampancy, so Chief sighs and tells her in a calm voice to not think about anything else. Or when Chief gets upset at the notion that Cortana will be replaced. Or whenever Chief feels uncomfortable, he starts fidgeting with his rifle. It's a nice and subtle detail to his character.

Given the circumstances, it's all very plausible behaviour. Unlike H2 or 3 where Chief is just kinda there. Is it really a coincidence that people liked Arbiter so much in H2? (in hindsight I mean, after they got over the shock of not playing as Chief). People like stories where human beings (or aliens voiced by human actors) struggle on a personal level. It's far more compelling to see Chief or Cortana or Lasky act like human beings (like in the books) than the very artificially behaved characters from previous games, where they're only ever allowed to act in specific ways that advance the immediate plot.

Then there's the plot direction, which is a thousand times better in H4 than any other Halo game. To understand why, let's compare it to Witcher 3. I'm sure we can all agree that Witcher 3's story was the tits, some of the best writing ever. Part of that is because the characters are interesting and have depth to them (not unlike H4) but also because the world doesn't revolve around Geralt, the protagonist. In W3 plans don't always work out. Sometimes shit happens, and all Geralt can do is react to it. It makes the plot feel very real and lived-in, because we never know what's going to happen next. There were so many times during W3's main quest where things don't go according to plan and the characters suffer a loss; it's the type of story that is always subverting your expectations. Because, again, the world doesn't revolve around you. Unlike Skyrim where the world does revolve around your character, and so everything you do will always work out in the end. It's boring and shallow.

H4 is more like Witcher 3 than Skyrim or the earlier Halo games. In H4 shit can go horribly wrong and often does: Del Rio ordering you to kill Cortana, failing to save all those scientists on that ship from the composer which promptly disintegrates them, Cortana straight up dying, even in the first mission where Chief fails to find the escape pod and lands on Requiem. This type of writing is way more compelling, because you never know what will happen. Tell me, how many of you actually expected all those scientists to die? In the other Halo games everything would have turned out fine. (Halo Reach doesn't count because we all knew Reach was fucked from the beginning, so it didn't surprise us). This hearkens to the advice that Vince Gilligan (the writer for Breaking Bad) gave to telling an interesting story: have characters behave plausibly, and always keep surprising the audience. This isn't to say that Halo 1-3 never does these things or never have moments of good writing (because they do), but H4 takes it to the next level. My favourite scene is when all of those scientists get composed, then Chief stands up and looks at all of them, hesitating before telling Cortana that they have to continue moving, then he's thrown off his game when Cortana tells him that she'll be replaced. These sort of extended scenes just don't happen in the other games, at least not to this effect.

Another thing that makes H4's story great is how every plot point makes sense; every scene is a logical consequence of the previous scene, and the whole things bleeds together very well. Unlike H5 where half the scenes make no sense and everyone talks like a puppet. H4's scenes also stick to its roots, it doesn't constantly time-skip to all the "big moments" like H2 or 3.

Yeah, the Didact was pretty lame, but I don't see how the people who hate him are the same people who love the Gravemind or the prophets. Both villains seem to suffer from the same problem of only ever speaking cryptically about their evil plans. The difference is that the Didact actually has a really cool backstory.

So to sum up this long post: H4's story is the best one because it's closer in execution to the books, characters have more depth, plot is more personal and unpredictable, dialogue is really solid, and if you guys still don't believe me, check out this in-depth level-by-level analysis of Halo 4's campaign explaining why it's the best, and it's written by someone who actually has an English literature degree, so he's far more qualified to talk about this stuff than any of us.

It really annoys me when people hate on H4's story just because 343 made it.

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30 minutes ago, SpitFlame said:

Reading these comments on H4's story reminds me that knowing what makes a good multiplayer doesn't translate to knowing what makes good writing. I guess I'll be 343's sole defender in that regard.

First of all, having a good art style or soundtrack doesn't make a good story. Read a book. A book has none of those things and yet they often have the best stories. What makes a good story is the script and direction. Not that this is to undervalue art or music, those things have their place.

What makes H4 have the best campaign (story-wise at least) is that the characters actually talk and act like human beings and not placeholders for action figures to be sold afterwards, and the events of the plot is fairly subversive and unpredictable, unlike the other games.

H4 is the only Halo game to my knowledge where characters talk about and reflect on things that isn't the main mission (ODST kinda does this). Every once in a while Chief will ask Cortana how she's doing, or Cortana will start talking about the sun because she can't "experience" it like a normal human, or when Lasky tells Chief that soldiers are just people, or they'll reference the Spartan-II program. It's a lot like the Halo books.

cczi950kb4z41.png

So if you didn't like Chief in H4, stay away from the books. (I'm talking about the Eric Nylund books especially, like Fall of Reach or First Strike; Ghosts of Onyx, too). In the books Chief gets angry, gets sad, thinks of the past, even disobeys direct orders from the authorities if it goes against his conscience. H4 Chief is a lot like book Chief; like when Chief acts like a boss and tells that dick bag Del Rio "no, sir." Or when Cortana is having trouble retrieving some specific information because of her rampancy, so Chief sighs and tells her in a calm voice to not think about anything else. Or when Chief gets upset at the notion that Cortana will be replaced. Or whenever Chief feels uncomfortable, he starts fidgeting with his rifle. It's a nice and subtle detail to his character.

Given the circumstances, it's all very plausible behaviour. Unlike H2 or 3 where Chief is just kinda there. Is it really a coincidence that people liked Arbiter so much in H2? (in hindsight I mean, after they got over the shock of not playing as Chief). People like stories where human beings (or aliens voiced by human actors) struggle on a personal level. It's far more compelling to see Chief or Cortana or Lasky act like human beings (like in the books) than the very artificially behaved characters from previous games, where they're only ever allowed to act in specific ways that advance the immediate plot.

Then there's the plot direction, which is a thousand times better in H4 than any other Halo game. To understand why, let's compare it to Witcher 3. I'm sure we can all agree that Witcher 3's story was the tits, some of the best writing ever. Part of that is because the characters are interesting and have depth to them (not unlike H4) but also because the world doesn't revolve around Geralt, the protagonist. In W3 plans don't always work out. Sometimes shit happens, and all Geralt can do is react to it. It makes the plot feel very real and lived-in, because we never know what's going to happen next. There were so many times during W3's main quest where things don't go according to plan and the characters suffer a loss; it's the type of story that is always subverting your expectations. Because, again, the world doesn't revolve around you. Unlike Skyrim where the world does revolve around your character, and so everything you do will always work out in the end. It's boring and shallow.

H4 is more like Witcher 3 than Skyrim or the earlier Halo games. In H4 shit can go horribly wrong and often does: Del Rio ordering you to kill Cortana, failing to save all those scientists on that ship form the composer which promptly disintegrates them, Cortana straight up dying, even in the first mission where Chief fails to find the escape pod and lands on Requiem. This type of writing is way more compelling, because you never know what will happen. Tell me, how many of you actually expected all those scientists to die? In the other Halo games everything would have turned out fine. (Halo Reach doesn't count because we all knew Reach was fucked from the beginning, so it didn't surprise us). This harkens to the advice that Vince Gilligan (the writer for Breaking Bad) gave to telling an interesting story: have characters behave plausibly, and always keep surprising the audience. This isn't to say that Halo 1-3 never does these things or never have moments of good writing (because they do), but H4 takes it to the next level. My favourite scene is when all of those scientists get composed, then Chief stands up and looks at all of them, hesitating before telling Cortana that they have to continue moving, then he's thrown off his game when Cortana tells him that she'll be replaced. These sort of extended scenes just don't happen in the other games, at least not to this effect.

Another thing that makes H4's story great is how every plot point makes sense; every scene is a logical consequence of the previous scene, and the whole things bleeds together very well. Unlike H5 where half the scenes make no sense and everyone talks like a puppet. H4's scenes also stick to its roots, it doesn't constantly time-skip to all the "big moments" like H2 or 3.

Yeah, the Didact was pretty lame, but I don't see how the people who hate him are the same people who love the Gravemind or the prophets. Both villains seem to suffer from the same problem of only ever speaking cryptically about their evil plans. The difference is that the Didact actually has a really cool backstory.

So to sum up this long post: H4's story is the best one because it's closer in execution to the books, characters have more depth, plot is more personal and unpredictable, dialogue is really solid, and if you guys still don't believe me, check out this in-depth level-by-level analysis of Halo 4's campaign explaining why it's the best, and it's written by someone who actually has an English literature degree, so he's far more qualified to talk about this stuff than any of us.

It really annoys me when people hate on H4's story just because 343 made it.

You said it better than I could. I’m not gonna let my dislike of 343 make me hate h4 campaign. 

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9 hours ago, Boyo said:

If only a finger snap could make half the Halo games disappear.  

Be careful what you wish for; it's a random snap, after all.

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11 minutes ago, Griffolian said:

Be careful what you wish for; it's a random snap, after all.

Only Halo Spartan Assault, Halo Wars, Halo Wars 2, Halo 5 and Halo 4 remain.

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H4 story gets so much shit because a lot of it doesn't really make any sense without at least some knowledge outside of the games. 

 

That and suddenly there's knock off force users and the chosen one story that happens. 

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@SpitFlame articulated what I wanted to but didn't have the care to.

 

Halo 4's campaign has a good story that's only undermined by its extended universe base. And I use 'undermine' loosely because enough of it is told in the terminals - which are in game. Kind of. (Halo Channel :wutface:). And for those who read the books, H4 stuff was I C O N I C for them.

I seriously recommend detractors to read the linked blog post in SpitFlame's post. Harupis is a GOAT.

1 hour ago, OG Nick said:

H4 story gets so much shit because a lot of it doesn't really make any sense without at least some knowledge outside of the games. 

 

That and suddenly there's knock off force users and the chosen one story that happens. 

Pretty sure the knock off force was also in the books. And the 'chosen one' shtick - Master Chief's geas - was alluded to in The Flood novel. None of this stuff was handwaved.

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31 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Playing video games for the story is like going to a restaurant for the waitresses. Literally why?

Fuck the people who play games for the lore right? 

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33 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Playing video games for the story is like going to a restaurant for the waitresses. Literally why?

Are you actually this dumb?

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