Jump to content
CyReN

Halo Infinite Discussion

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Like what? I liked h5s weapon sandbox and weapons being easy to use in my opinion is completely irrelevant on how good a sandbox is. 

Ease of use is probably the most useful feature within a weapon sandbox for actually balancing it. Imagine the sniper rifle had the same aim assist that the BR/pistol/whatever has in any version of Halo ever (or the reverse of that). Wow ease of use sure does matter all of the sudden

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

Ease of use is probably the most useful feature within a weapon sandbox for actually balancing it. Imagine the sniper rifle had the same aim assist that the BR/pistol/whatever has in any version of Halo ever (or the reverse of that). Wow ease of use sure does matter all of the sudden

I mean does that make the sniper a bad weapon if it’s Easy? I never said I like weapons being easy I just want the weapon I pick up not make me feel like I’m fucked just for picking it up 

  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

I mean does that make the sniper a bad weapon if it’s Easy? I never said I like weapons being easy I just want the weapon I pick up not make me feel like I’m fucked just for picking it up 

You're misinterpreting the word "balance". A weapon's ease of use and a weapon's precision are elements that contribute to that weapon's balance in light of the sandbox as a whole.

You can take two approaches to weapon balance: (1) make everything equal; or (2) make weapons dominant in their intended role, and limit the overlap of the roles themselves.

It seems like you're advocating for an Option 1 approach to sandbox balance, which is fine, but Halo has always strove for Option 2 balance. In trying to achieve Option 2 balance, the ease of use, the accuracy, and the power of individual weapons are all traits that need to be tweaked and adjusted to fit the intended role of the weapon. The goal of Halo weapon balance isn't to make you feel safe in all situations when you pick up a weapon, it's to make you feel safe in that weapon's intended role.

When the sniper is easy to use, it disrupts the weapon balance of the game because it so totally overwhelms the rest of the sandbox due to its power to kill in one shot. So yes, in that sense, making the sniper easy to use is bad when you're trying to achieve Option 2 balance. Similarly, when weapons like the AR or other automatic weapons are accurate at medium distances, it disrupts the weapon balance of the game because the utility weapon's role is diminished.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Fire (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
39 minutes ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

it's to make you feel safe

 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Reamis25 said:

Like what? I liked h5s weapon sandbox and weapons being easy to use in my opinion is completely irrelevant on how good a sandbox is. 

This is the worst take I've seen in a while.  You're choosing to disregard what is quite literally, the most important thing you could ever strive for.  If you cut all diversity, or interesting traits, varying ranges, from a weapon sandbox - it would still work provided the tuning of the difficulty is fine.  Case in point, Halo 2/3 with only the BR is more fun than most other games on the market.  You screw up the skill in shooting you've just dumped your game in the trashcan, ie. Halo 2 Anniversary, aka. the Halo game that is great on paper but basically plays itself because everything has magnetism up the whazoo.

 

People sat there and played Octagon for years.  Just like people run boxes in Gears of War with only the gnasher.  Just like the fact that Halo 3 MLG existed despite being basically BR Snipe Rocket.

 

You know what didn't hold people? Halo 5, with its 30 weapon sandbox.

 

We could make even more parallels to fighting games here.  Melee is still the most successful fighting game of all time, and it's ~10 viable characters is more viably done than Smash Ultimate's 60+ roster.  I don't care how much diversity is there, if it's stupid.  Gimme a solid foundation (in this case, difficulty of shooting), then worry about adding shit.

  • Like (+1) 7
  • Fire (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

This is the worst take I've seen in a while.  You're choosing to disregard what is quite literally, the most important thing you could ever strive for.  If you cut all diversity, or interesting traits, varying ranges, from a weapon sandbox - it would still work provided the tuning of the difficulty is fine.  Case in point, Halo 2/3 with only the BR is more fun than most other games on the market.  You screw up the skill in shooting you've just dumped your game in the trashcan, ie. Halo 2 Anniversary, aka. the Halo game that is great on paper but basically plays itself because everything has magnetism up the whazoo.

 

People sat there and played Octagon for years.  Just like people run boxes in Gears of War with only the gnasher.  Just like the fact that Halo 3 MLG existed despite being basically BR Snipe Rocket.

 

You know what didn't hold people? Halo 5, with its 30 weapon sandbox.

 

We could make even more parallels to fighting games here.  Melee is still the most successful fighting game of all time, and it's ~10 viable characters is more viably done than Smash Ultimate's 60+ roster.  I don't care how much diversity is there, if it's stupid.  Gimme a solid foundation (in this case, difficulty of shooting), then worry about adding shit.

I think my comment was misinterpreted. I think as long as weapons are strong, able to kill and if a game posseses that sandbox it is good. You’re not wrong about the halo 2/3 but take into account anyone who decided to play outside of the BR Mets was fucked. Which I’m ok with it’s just that I’d like it if some variety was there. I think a weapon sandbox is like food. Let’s use a simple one cheese pizza. You could eat that everyday I bet and love it but eventually you want something different. So what do you do? You add toppings, maybe some sauce, anything to add to the meal. Maybe that’s a terrible take on it but I think it’s an alright one. And funnily enough if h2a just decreased aim assist, increased strafe accel etc it would be a better game. H5 regardless of opinion took a lot of skill. Wether that skill was due to horrible aiming mechanics or thruster is irrelevant when people still could pull off clutch plays like beating a guy while one shot. 
TLDR; I just want a sandbox that’s similar to h5 but the difficulty of use similar to that of the pistol of h5.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Too many weapons also reduces the influence identical starts has on the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Too many weapons also reduces the influence identical starts has on the game. 

How so? 

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

I think my comment was misinterpreted. I think as long as weapons are strong, able to kill and if a game posseses that sandbox it is good. You’re not wrong about the halo 2/3 but take into account anyone who decided to play outside of the BR Mets was fucked. Which I’m ok with it’s just that I’d like it if some variety was there. I think a weapon sandbox is like food. Let’s use a simple one cheese pizza. You could eat that everyday I bet and love it but eventually you want something different. So what do you do? You add toppings, maybe some sauce, anything to add to the meal. Maybe that’s a terrible take on it but I think it’s an alright one. And funnily enough if h2a just decreased aim assist, increased strafe accel etc it would be a better game. H5 regardless of opinion took a lot of skill. Wether that skill was due to horrible aiming mechanics or thruster is irrelevant when people still could pull off clutch plays like beating a guy while one shot. 
TLDR; I just want a sandbox that’s similar to h5 but the difficulty of use similar to that of the pistol of h5.

Fair enough, I understand where you're coming from.  Let's stay away from food analogies from now on though, they come up in design discussions a lot and it always bothers me lol they're not very parallel in my eyes.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Wether that skill was due to horrible aiming mechanics or thruster is irrelevant when people still could pull off clutch plays like beating a guy while one shot.

Bro that's like more than half the reason why that shit is possible what.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

How so? 

If there's too many weapons in the category of the spawn weapons on the map, it becomes impossible to tell what someone is using when fighting them. Which is half the point of equal starts. The fights often devolve into the minor weapon differences playing more a factor in fights than in the alternative. Which also defeats the point of equal starts.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Fair enough, I understand where you're coming from.  Let's stay away from food analogies from now on though, they come up in design discussions a lot and it always bothers me lol they're not very parallel in my eyes.

Lol fair enough, they do sound stupid but it’s the best I had atm.

 

3 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

If I go one more event without seeing Elden Ring news I'm going to explode. 

Lol holy shit I forgot about that game. The concept I read about it got me excited.

 

2 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

If there's too many weapons in the category of the spawn weapons on the map, it becomes impossible to tell what someone is using when fighting them. Which is half the point of equal starts. The fights often devolve into the minor weapon differences playing more a factor in fights than in the alternative. Which also defeats the point of equal starts.

I always thought the point of equal starts was exactly how it sounds. You spawning the same as your enemy. Never thought weapons on the map damages that as long as you don’t spawn with trash. See that’s one reason I didn’t hate h5s old sandbox. Yes the weapons like BR,dmr etc were upgrades but it didn’t feel like h3/2 auto starts and the enemy team had BRS. If I had to describe it, it was more or less as if you had a scar default in cod and your enemy had an m4 with a stock on it. It’s an advantage but not one so significant where you’re screwed. 

 

4 hours ago, HeX Reapers said:

Bro that's like more than half the reason why that shit is possible what.

Lol I know that’s why I said it. But deep down is thrust being the reason for missed bullets all that bad? 😂😂

Share this post


Link to post

People take the term "even starts", and take it literally, while failing to remember that there needs to be far more nuance behind it beyond simply spawning everyone with the same equipment, which is the barest minimum a Halo game needs for balanced play.

Even starts doesn't matter in a game when a map is littered with various upgrade based weaponry. Players off of spawn need to be on equal footing with players on the map at ALL times (power weapons aside), not just off of initial spawn.  The utility weapon should always dictate the pace of the game, and set a bar that the rest of the weapons on the map follow.

Share this post


Link to post

You could make the whole of the rest of the sandbox be as versatile and utilitarian as that of CE, if we just cut down the minimum TTK on the utility. The reason that CE's plasma rifle, AR, and shotgun don't feel unfair or cheap in design is because the utility's got a 0.6 second TTK. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

You could make the whole of the rest of the sandbox be as versatile and utilitarian as that of CE

I would start by making scope and reload the two most boring features a weapon could have.  

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, The Tyco said:

The utility weapon should always dictate the pace of the game, and set a bar that the rest of the weapons on the map follow.

I’ve never once thought about it like that. That’s an interesting concept I’ll say.

@Synaspe I don’t think we should go another ce utility. That ttk is way too fast for its worth.

Share this post


Link to post

Yo I just bougjt the powera fusion pro controller and it is spot on good. The sticks are amazing 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Reamis25 said:

I don’t think we should go another ce utility. That ttk is way too fast for its worth.

Not if it's actually hard to do.

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Not if it's actually hard to do.

Define hard? Wingman from apex hard? I’d debate that projectile systems are a lot more accurate and spot on than what ce brought to the table so it wouldn’t be as difficult 

Share this post


Link to post

With a 4sk Magnum, good players kill in 6.5 shots on average against a competent strafing opponent.  

Share this post


Link to post

Ce is the worde game in history online. These shots won’t register! So many damn blanks! 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Reamis25 said:

Define hard? Wingman from apex hard? I’d debate that projectile systems are a lot more accurate and spot on than what ce brought to the table so it wouldn’t be as difficult 

Wait, do you think CE is hitscan?

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Wait, do you think CE is hitscan?

No I know it’s projectile but the hit reg is still utter garbage. It doesn’t help on average I’m in an eastern server which for me is 100 ping which to most people is unplayable. Lol I get better shot connection in halo 3 also. A lot of games have projectile shooting which have way better registration than ce could dream of.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

No I know it’s projectile but the hit reg is still utter garbage. It doesn’t help on average I’m in an eastern server which for me is 100 ping which to most people is unplayable. Lol I get better shot connection in halo 3 also. A lot of games have projectile shooting which have way better registration than ce could dream of.

Yeah it's got a lot of problems, but I do think a lot of the people talking about hit reg the most are likely not shooting correctly. I run into bullet magnetism deciding to go on vacation a lot more often than I do blanks. I'm excited to see what the fix for the spread bug will do for consistency. It's really the only thing I have to look forward to in this next update.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.