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Halo Infinite Discussion

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2 minutes ago, Boyo said:

In a large scale, vehicle heavy mode, do you think the balance between infantry and vehicles would be better if all players could perform a juke or combat roll?  Spartans vs Elites.  Spartans can Thrust.  Elites can Evade.  These abilities are similar enough to operate smoothly on the same map but have key differences that make each unique.  

Absolutely not. Without even getting into the harm that these abilities cause in all other game modes, a convenient thrust or evade out of a splatter is cheap shit. Not much better than armor lock.

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41 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

H3 nailed infantry-vehicle interactions. H2 favors vehicles too much, H4 favors infantry too much. All other games are in the middle somewhere.

M6 Grindell/Galilean Nonlinear Rifle | Halo Alpha | Fandom

Power Drain | Halo Alpha | Fandom

NAILED IT!

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27 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Absolutely not. Without even getting into the harm that these abilities cause in all other game modes, a convenient thrust or evade out of a splatter is cheap shit. Not much better than armor lock.

Wouldn’t want to upset that deeeeep meta of waiting till a player jumps then boosting at him with the ghost.

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12 minutes ago, HeX Reapers said:

NAILED IT!

The first is a power weapon on a 3 minute respawn, the second is a one-and-done mechanic that must be very well timed if you're gonna catch anything with it outside of close-mid range. So what's the problem?

Actually, let's play a game. You tell me which game you think did it better than Halo 3, I'll tell you what kind of crack you're smoking.

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18 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

The first is a power weapon on a 3 minute respawn, the second is a one-and-done mechanic that must be very well timed if you're gonna catch anything with it outside of close-mid range. So what's the problem?

Actually, let's play a game. You tell me which game you think did it better than Halo 3, I'll tell you what kind of crack you're smoking.

My crack addiction has nothing to do with this. Respawn times don't make the weapon any less bullshit when it's active. 343 are great examples of this. The Splaser is a brain-dead weapon that kills any and all vehicle momentum with relative ease. It works as a better Railgun in lower player counts. H3 at its best, and is also the best overall, is when these weapons aren't in play. Never said it didn't do it the best, but to say the game "nailed" those interactions is false. Big difference.

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/hex-reapers/video/84195206

RIP Mongoose rusher.

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Just now, HeX Reapers said:

My crack addiction has nothing to do with this. Respawn times don't make the weapon any less bullshit when it's active. 343 are great examples of this. The Splaser is a brain-dead weapon that kills any and all vehicle momentum with relative ease. It works as a better Railgun in lower player counts. H3 at its best, and is also the best overall, when these weapons aren't in play. Never said it didn't do it the best, but to say the game "nailed" those interactions is false. Big difference.

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/hex-reapers/video/84195206

RIP Mongoose rusher.

I'm not particularly attached to the laser either, but the shot is telegraphed and there is a wait time before you can actually fire. And since it's a poor choice for dealing with infantry, it also requires commitment. It's more than fair.

In terms of keeping vehicles relevant and desirable, while giving infantry players readily available options to deal with vehicles (plasma pistol EMP, power drain, missile pod, brute shot to flip light vehicles), as opposed to a) having to wait for the rockets or a counter vehicle to spawn or for the enemy to make a critical mistake, or b) giving everyone the ability to shred vehicles off spawn, with their starting weapons... I would say H3 did indeed nail it.

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I prefer the Reach/H4 (non-loadout)/ H5 BTB gameplay to be perfectly honest. H3 had it's fair share of things it did really well, but I like being able to affect vehicles with my starting weapon. We can fine-tune exactly how much health each vehicle should have against the utility weapon, but I'm of the belief that eventually you should be able to take it down with just that. I think vehicles should be viewed as a temporary buff that will eventually succumb to gunfire.

The laser would have been so much cooler if it only came with one shot.

Edit: I think a fair and interesting tradeoff to utility damage against vehicles would be something like a repair bay. Picture a giant weapon pad that you have to park on for 4-5 seconds and remain perfectly still. It'll restore your vehicle's health to like 80%. Using it puts it on cooldown for 2min. It's only available in neutral positions (think behind turret on Valhalla).

 

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53 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Edit: I think a fair and interesting tradeoff to utility damage against vehicles would be something like a repair bay. Picture a giant weapon pad that you have to park on for 4-5 seconds and remain perfectly still. It'll restore your vehicle's health to like 80%. Using it puts it on cooldown for 2min. It's only available in neutral positions (think behind turret on Valhalla).

The engineer aliens from ODST like to repair stuff and they have explosives strapped to them.  Risk being blown up for the reward of having your vehicle repaired.  Or you could have a human repair bay but the enemy can slay the AI marine mechanics to temporarily disable it.  

58 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

The laser would have been so much cooler if it only came with one shot.

Sounds like a good piece of equipment...

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5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

The engineer aliens from ODST like to repair stuff and they have explosives strapped to them.  Risk being blown up for the reward of having your vehicle repaired.  Or you could have a human repair bay but the enemy can slay the AI marine mechanics to temporarily disable it.  

Sounds like a good piece of equipment...

I feel like needing to sit perfectly still is enough of a risk. I hate needing to wait on AI for stuff. To me that would feel like waiting for the AI to get in the warthog. "Hurry up and float over to me you dumb purple bastard!"

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5 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I feel like needing to sit perfectly still is enough of a risk. I hate needing to wait on AI for stuff. To me that would feel like waiting for the AI to get in the warthog. "Hurry up and float over to me you dumb purple bastard!"

What made you pick parking the vehicle on a spot over something like a repair tool that one player wields?  

Picking up an Overshield immediately gives you the full effect; you don’t have to stand there and charge it up.  Why make vehicles park instead of a pick up that instantly repairs the vehicle?  

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The power drain and laser are obviously a little too potent in how they interact with vehicles but I think the wat vehicles themselves are balanced in H3 is ideal. BR fire actually can flip the hog as the bullets have kinetic properties. Everything drives great, is nice and bouncy and has very little air control which means there's a legit skill to driving the hog. Frag grenades have more knockback for flipping vehicles, as do the other sandbox tools (sticky, brute shot, hammer, rocket, tripmine) than any other Halo. Plus the health system which progressively lowers their health cap is well done. 

 

I think if all the vehicles had weak points like H5, or the H2 ghost gas tank, the vehicles themselves would be as well done as they reasonably could be.  

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Halo 3 BTB was so good. So many good memories with friends.

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The laser just makes me remember standoff strats taking the laser/their rockets back to our base and standing on top while our hog just circled the other teams spawns until the game ended because the map is trash

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58 minutes ago, Boyo said:

What made you pick parking the vehicle on a spot over something like a repair tool that one player wields?  

Picking up an Overshield immediately gives you the full effect; you don’t have to stand there and charge it up.  Why make vehicles park instead of a pick up that instantly repairs the vehicle?  

Because something as valuable as restoring a vehicle from the brink of death to 80% health should need to happen in a vulnerable position. Just using Valhalla/Ragnarock as an example, grabbing a repair tool from Pelican and pulling it back to your base to safely repair your Mantis is much easier than parking a damaged vehicle out in the open for 5 seconds in neutral territory. That sort of thing should need to be earned through firm map control or a solid distraction.

It's just a lot harder to cheese. Imagine a player getting out of his Banshee in a soft-kill above the map and repairing it. You don't have to worry about what kind of cornball stuff people are going to do if you tie it to a point on the map that needs to be controlled.

Are you suggesting that you should be able to drive a vehicle through a zone and instantly repair it?  Bro, we're talking about a shitload of HP here. Like, several full magazines of utility fire. Hard no. That would be stupid.

Repairing a vehicle should be a big deal. It should be difficult. It shouldn't happen in most games. Pulling it off should be a sign of pretty dominant map control, or an excellent capitalization on a distraction. Hell, in most instances, it should be the distraction.

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@Hard Way

What prevents the driver from simply pulling away from the health pad once he starts taking fire?  Nothing right.  

Back when we were messing around with Overshield Generators, a small area on the map that charges an OS but reduces the damage resistance of the player inside by 50%, there was a risk element to it.  You take a nade at 50% damage resistance and you’re dead.  There’s not enough risk with a pad you can just drive away from.  That’s why I suggested the explosive engineer.  It would encourage the vehicle occupants to get out and defend it, instead of just waiting to peel out at the first sign of danger.  

Do you think vehicles should be able to be repaired with players inside?  

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On 4/21/2020 at 3:18 AM, Hard Way said:

Higher TTK, but it does corrosive damage over time that keeps you descoped and prevents shields recharging longer than its peers.

I actually love this. It would match the Plasma rifle giving you slow turn, Plasma pistol popping your shields and Needler tracking and exploding. I would also like to see the Fuel Rod Cannon rounds bounce more, allowing you to angle teh shots (slightly, not scattershot style).

This would make Covenant weapons utlity based and the human weapons pure lethality.

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Fuel rod being a mortar again would be nice. Also am I the only one who thought the blueberry cannon was a decent weapon?

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46 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Fuel rod being a mortar again would be nice. Also am I the only one who thought the blueberry cannon was a decent weapon?

I liked it but how many homing weapons can a game have?  There’s already the Plasma Pistol and the Needler.  Energy Sword too if you want to get technical.  

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H3 was balanced well (best in a Halo game) for vehicle-infantry combat, but the issue was that the dynamic of balance between the two was propped up by stuff like the aforementioned splaser, bubble shield, missile pods/turrets, and other stuff extrinsic to base player abilities. 

If you look at maps like standoff, where one team frequently gets spawntrapped on their side because the other team has a warthog circling them, there's very little to none that can be done to fight back. You have to crouch with rockets or live long enough to get off a lucky power drain and hope that your teammates are competent enough to throw a couple of grenades at it before they get mopped up by the gunner. 

Ideally, for vehicles like the warthog, turn them back into the CE floaty shitfest to maneuver, but give them high maximum speed and turret damage, as well as noticeable non-resetting recoil on the turret. Additionally, make the vehicle as bouncy as it was in Halo 3, and take away the fucking stupid cover for the gunner. 

You increase the potency of the vehicle, while still requiring the driver and gunner to be competent. I genuinely don't understand why there was ever cover for the gunner. It makes it so much harder to get clean hits on the player, and makes staying still in the vehicle that much more forgiving. "Oh let's forgive the players in the vehicle for doing the exact thing they're not supposed to do in the vehicle".

Conversely, place a fairly high amount of sharp turns, choke points, narrow cliffs, and several explosive-type weapons on the maps with vehicles to force competency on the driver's end, and allowing an opposing team to take advantage of a subpar driver or distracted gunner. 

As far as vehicle health goes, go for a 60-40 ratio of regenerating health to fixed health. You could play with this ratio for different classes of vehicles (Eg: Tanks have 70% fixed health to 30% regenerating health, mongooses and ghosts have 80% regenerating health to 20% fixed health, etc). 

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2 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Fuel rod being a mortar again would be nice. Also am I the only one who thought the blueberry cannon was a decent weapon?

TROY

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I like the fuel rod as a mortar compared to what it was in later games, but what if it also left a toxic damaging area on the floor of where it was fired which could be used for area denial? It is a fuel rod after all. Also I've always felt that the plasma pistol was a cheap weapon since Halo 2, what if instead of stripping your shields instantly it drained your shields over X amount of time after a direct hit? I've also thought about the idea of the plasma pistol only disabling the guns when it hits a vehicle, I find it silly that a person can simply keep stun locking something like a wraith or tank by repeatedly firing overcharged shots at it.

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42 minutes ago, Mow said:

I like the fuel rod as a mortar compared to what it was in later games, but what if it also left a toxic damaging area on the floor of where it was fired which could be used for area denial? It is a fuel rod after all. Also I've always felt that the plasma pistol was a cheap weapon since Halo 2, what if instead of stripping your shields instantly it drained your shields over X amount of time after a direct hit? I've also thought about the idea of the plasma pistol only disabling the guns when it hits a vehicle, I find it silly that a person can simply keep stun locking something like a wraith or tank by repeatedly firing overcharged shots at it.

Wasn't there a REQ variant of the FRG that did this? It was fairly useless from what I remember, but then again it's H5 where everyone can fly and the Warzone maps are huge open stretches of no man's land so of course that limits the use of a area-denial weapon.

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14 minutes ago, Basu said:

Wasn't there a REQ variant of the FRG that did this? It was fairly useless from what I remember, but then again it's H5 where everyone can fly and the Warzone maps are huge open stretches of no man's land so of course that limits the use of a area-denial weapon.

Now that you mention it there may have been, but as you said the H5 movement kinda kills the point of that idea anyway. Honestly if I could have only 1 wish for Infinite it would be that the weapon sandbox has utility instead of outright killing potential, but I know that the odds of having a good weapon sandbox are about as low as having no sprint. I love things like @Hard Way idea of corrosive damage for the carbine, it's just the little things like that which stack up and add depth to the game, whilst Halo 5 had depth in its movement the weapon sandbox in arena was about as bland as it gets. You can only hold 2 guns in Halo so if I'm picking up a weapon which is going to take up one of my two slots it better damn well have some actual utility other than killing, if I want killing power then guess what we have this cool thing called the starting weapon for.

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10 hours ago, Boyo said:

@Hard Way

What prevents the driver from simply pulling away from the health pad once he starts taking fire?  Nothing right.  

Back when we were messing around with Overshield Generators, a small area on the map that charges an OS but reduces the damage resistance of the player inside by 50%, there was a risk element to it.  You take a nade at 50% damage resistance and you’re dead.  There’s not enough risk with a pad you can just drive away from.  That’s why I suggested the explosive engineer.  It would encourage the vehicle occupants to get out and defend it, instead of just waiting to peel out at the first sign of danger.  

Do you think vehicles should be able to be repaired with players inside?  

I wouldn’t be opposed to requiring the driver to get out of the vehicle. You’d need to do that for the banshee anyway. Of course, with H5’s ridiculous ability to drive while your whole ass body is still hanging out of the car, it wouldn’t make a difference.

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4 hours ago, Mow said:

what if instead of stripping your shields instantly [the plasma pistol] drained your shields over X amount of time after a direct hit?

Too slow.  The fight could be over before that has any effect.  

4 hours ago, Mow said:

I've also thought about the idea of the plasma pistol only disabling the guns when it hits a vehicle, I find it silly that a person can simply keep stun locking something like a wraith or tank by repeatedly firing overcharged shots at it.

Just limit the number of overcharged shots to 2 or 3 (33-50% battery consumption per shot).  I would also remove the homing ability from the overcharged plasma pistol, making it behave more like an EMP rocket launcher (quicker charge up, faster projectile speed).

 

3 hours ago, Mow said:

You can only hold 2 guns in Halo so if I'm picking up a weapon which is going to take up one of my two slots it better damn well have some actual utility other than killing

Give weapons without scopes an alternate fire mode and you can increase the number of actions the player can perform.  Sentinel Beam can also activate a frontal shield.  Energy Sword can also scan for enemy footprints.  Shotgun can also activate a flashlight that reveals Active Camo users.  

9 hours ago, Shekkles said:

TROY

and Abed in the Morning.  

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