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Halo Infinite Discussion

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On 4/7/2020 at 12:59 AM, MultiLockOn said:

The whole RPG aspect of Destiny is easily it's weakest leg, but the raids in the game are some of the best content in gaming straight up.  There's nothing like them anywhere.  Plus all of the raids, with the exception of the most current, all all below the starting level of your character when you create one now and the game is free to play so if you or anyone here is inclined to actually experience them I'd be happy to run people through them.  I have a group of friends that run them somewhat frequently just for fun and we do it with new players as well.  Really, really good content.

I think you may enjoy dungeons/raiding on WoW. The (super obvious) difference being that WoW is not an FPS however conceptually and even sometimes mechanically Destiny raids draw greatly from raids and dungeons in WoW. After having done more than a decade of high end raiding/everything else in WoW you see echoes of its boss mechanics in pretty much any game that shoots in that general direction

I'd just say that Destiny is primarily more accessible in that it is both easier to form a group due to the number of players needed to experience the content and its much more basic thus allowing newer people to more or less figure it out without a long explanation or years of prior experience. The enjoyment you're feeling is the reason that groups of 20+ players in WoW will show up and struggle on bosses for weeks or maybe even months depending on how quickly you clear on the hardest difficulty and bungie did a great job of packing it all into a much shorter and accessible gameplay loop that impacts wayyyy more people

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A Promethean power weapon alt fires a remotely maneuverable, first person view projectile that “possesses” an impacted enemy, giving the user control of him for up to 7 seconds.  During this time, the user can perform two attacks.  LT explodes the possessed player like a suicide vest.  RT causes the possessed player to spit a new first person view projectile forward before crumbling into dust, allowing the user to guide the projectile into another enemy, causing another possession.  

With this weapon, the user goes from player view to projectile view to possessed enemy view (then back to projectile view when a new projectile is spat out).  The target is effectively dead on impact but spectates for up to 7 seconds before being sent to respawn.  Assassinating a possessed teammate frees him. 

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8 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

I think you may enjoy dungeons/raiding on WoW. The (super obvious) difference being that WoW is not an FPS however conceptually and even sometimes mechanically Destiny raids draw greatly from raids and dungeons in WoW. After having done more than a decade of high end raiding/everything else in WoW you see echoes of its boss mechanics in pretty much any game that shoots in that general direction

I'd just say that Destiny is primarily more accessible in that it is both easier to form a group due to the number of players needed to experience the content and its much more basic thus allowing newer people to more or less figure it out without a long explanation or years of prior experience. The enjoyment you're feeling is the reason that groups of 20+ players in WoW will show up and struggle on bosses for weeks or maybe even months depending on how quickly you clear on the hardest difficulty and bungie did a great job of packing it all into a much shorter and accessible gameplay loop that impacts wayyyy more people

I have a friend who has played WoW a considerable amount and he's mentioned this to me before as well.  I'm aware of the sheer difference in scope and difficulty of raids between the two games, but for me personally despite everything else its Destiny's skill as an FPS over the nature of what WoW is, that draws me to it.  Just a much more skillful medium to build in, but I get what you're saying.  I'm gonna need to watch some videos on some WoW raids one of these days to pull some inspiration from.

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I would say FFXIV has some pretty cool raids/dungeons/boss battles and it worth looking at

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Not really a fan of destiny 2 raids but completing the vault of glass from D1 for the first time was one of my favorite moments in gaming of all time.  Kings fall was pretty damn good too. 

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9 hours ago, OG Nick said:

I would say FFXIV has some pretty cool raids/dungeons/boss battles and it worth looking at

A lot were copied from WoW, the coat of paint is much better looking on FFXIV. I would recommend avoiding much of this game for mechanical design with dungeons and raids, Rathalos and NieR Automata fights aside.

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3 hours ago, Gold said:

Not really a fan of destiny 2 raids but completing the vault of glass from D1 for the first time was one of my favorite moments in gaming of all time.  Kings fall was pretty damn good too. 

Kings Fall had some of the coolest visuals I've ever seen. 

57 minutes ago, Crimson said:

A lot were copied from WoW, the coat of paint is much better looking on FFXIV. I would recommend avoiding much of this game for mechanical design with dungeons and raids, Rathalos and NieR Automata fights aside.

I actually just played Nier Automata the other day. The soundtrack is a close 2nd to Halo for me, it's phenomenal. 

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18 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Kings Fall had some of the coolest visuals I've ever seen. 

I actually just played Nier Automata the other day. The soundtrack is a close 2nd to Halo for me, it's phenomenal. 

Please tell me you didn't stop at one playthrough. The game lies, don't trust it, you're not done.

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On 4/5/2020 at 3:21 PM, Shekkles said:

I would love to see a Halo 2 SPV3. 

With or without incest terminals?

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10 hours ago, The Tyco said:

Please tell me you didn't stop at one playthrough. The game lies, don't trust it, you're not done.

No I'm still going on the promise that the 3rd/4th/5th "playthrough" are as good as people say, I'm familiar with how the game is formatted. This 2nd play through actually sucks though, 9s combat is lame. I'm powering through this to get to the good part. 

 

I also don't need this game to be as sexualized as it is, every time you sprint it's an upskirt shot of 2b in her thong, and if you self destruct it just blows the skirt off altogether lmao. 

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6 hours ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

With or without incest terminals?

Scuse me?

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2 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Scuse me?

Some sexual terminals involving floodified Keyes and his daughter

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Honestly, I'd play tf out of Infinite's campaign if it just brought CE-style enemy aggression and strafing back. 

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12 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Some sexual terminals involving floodified Keyes and his daughter

Someone added these into the game? Or these were the anniversary terminals?

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2 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Someone added these into the game? Or these were the anniversary terminals?

They were added into Halo SPV3, a fan mod remastering CE's campaign with new content. 

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1. People meme on SPV3 because a terminal from the perspective of Keyes' internal dialogue while fighting the Flood infection implicates incestuous thoughts. Disturbing in a sense but that's exactly what the Flood is; a horrifying alien parasite. But some people were offended because...too disturbing for them I guess?

2. Destiny made me realize I don't really like games as a service. I'll never be able to play Year 1 of Destiny 1 again. That PvP balancing was the best the game had. It really felt like Halo CE and an RPG had a baby, particularly in the sense that every primary gun type and even most archetypes of those primaries were contenders at most ranges. There was at least one archetype from each primary type that was utility like the Magnum or BR or DMR. Destiny's current balancing is apparently great for PvE, but for PvP it comes down to pure rock/paper/scissors gameplay. If you're even just slightly outside your gun type's intended range, you'll get trounced. Everyone gets to spawn with 0HK ammo too, whereas in D1 a good team rotated the map and could deny special ammo.

I know balancing wasn't being talked about but I'm still pissed off. Great art though, sure.

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36 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

1. People meme on SPV3 because a terminal from the perspective of Keyes' internal dialogue while fighting the Flood infection implicates incestuous thoughts. Disturbing in a sense but that's exactly what the Flood is; a horrifying alien parasite. But some people were offended because...too disturbing for them I guess?

2. Destiny made me realize I don't really like games as a service. I'll never be able to play Year 1 of Destiny 1 again. That PvP balancing was the best the game had. It really felt like Halo CE and an RPG had a baby, particularly in the sense that every primary gun type and even most archetypes of those primaries were contenders at most ranges. There was at least one archetype from each primary type that was utility like the Magnum or BR or DMR. Destiny's current balancing is apparently great for PvE, but for PvP it comes down to pure rock/paper/scissors gameplay. If you're even just slightly outside your gun type's intended range, you'll get trounced. Everyone gets to spawn with 0HK ammo too, whereas in D1 a good team rotated the map and could deny special ammo.

I know balancing wasn't being talked about but I'm still pissed off. Great art though, sure.

If you were to just look at Destiny as it could be, with all the art, the size and resources of Bungie, the floorplan they had laid out, the content -

 

It probably should be the best video game ever made.  Seriously, like the visuals and the story potential, the amount of content a game like that could have.  They really dropped the ball.

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You're preaching to the choir. I was hopeful since day one. Even had that Song of the Spheres nameplate in D1 that you could only get by participating in an ARG that lasted like five days back in early 2013. But Bungie has terrible management. I think half of Halo's success was Microsoft's management.

Destiny would still be amongst my favorite games even with their piss poor production pipeline, if the PvP had maintained its hybridization of arena shooter and RPG mechanics. D1Y1 was a powerful feeling and enabling sandbox. There was a downside, though, which bugged even me at times. Everyone seemed a bit too empowered because many playstyles were potentially winning playstyles and people kept finding new viable strategies. It was a bit of a guessing game in the sense that you simply couldn't cover your ass for every strategy that someone might have at their disposal. My favorite thing in D1 was ruining Ward of Dawns with my Invective. Didn't even matter if they had Saint-14 or not. Who'd think anybody other than a trog would be entering their bubble? I guess that was the nature of a new game, though, but current D2 PvP balancing is absolutely trounced by the meta and keeps being trounced by the meta because there are no utility weapons anymore. Any prospective new strategies fail to be winners. You could scrap the entire weapon arsenal of the game and redesign every class but so long as bullets magically turn into BB pellets at specific arbitrary ranges, there's going to be an oppressive meta. I'd like to see a max mobility Hunter get away with half their horse shit if utility weapons were a thing still.

I could ramble for many more paragraphs but the point is I don't think current Bungie knows how to make good PvP. Did they ever, though? CE multiplayer was rushed and I bet if given more time, they would have over thought the balancing and made it worse. 2's saving grace was glitches. 3's saving grace was all the features besides the core gameplay. Reach's saving grace was basically just brand recognition - and another company's updates.

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2 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Honestly, I'd play tf out of Infinite's campaign if it just brought CE-style enemy aggression and strafing back. 

Watched a great video on why Halo 5's campaign sucks.

It's multiple factors but they all stem off sprint. Sprint is stop and start gameplay. He compared it to "First person Gears of War". 

With all the hitscan and lock-on weapons, you spend most of your play time behind cover, popping out to take a few shots before losing shield and going back in cover again. Sprint is stop and start by nature, sprinting between cover is not actually progressing.

In previous Halo's, especially 1&3, the enemy weapons are all projectile and you don't have sprint. This actually speeds up gameplay as you can strafe enemy projectiles WHILST STILL SHOOTING. Sure you take cover sometimes but generally you're this moving, shooting killing machine that rarely stops. 

Was great. Here's the link, forgive his over-pronounciation.

 

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2 hours ago, _Synapse said:

They were added into Halo SPV3, a fan mod remastering CE's campaign with new content. 

...that's actually the dumbest shit I've ever heard of.

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The final release of SPV3 could more be considered a 'remake' of CE rather than 'remaster'. In the same vein of Final Fantasy 7 Remake to its OG. Several levels have been expanded, there's a completely new level, and has a completely new mini-campaign with its own unique sandbox. It's honestly got some really strong points and it's crazy to see how far they were able to push the engine. That said though, it kind of buckles beneath its own weight. There's so much going on that replayability is cut down by a large margin because you'll remember sections that were just entirely too much chaos and not look forward to it. It's like each individual aspect of SPV3 is pretty good on its own and many combinations are great, but if everything's thrown in at once then you'll swear you're playing Big Team Fiesta instead of a campaign. Sections with both Covenant and Flood kind of feel like that. I also have no idea how anyone can beat 'Noble' difficulty, the setting above Legendary. But the first playthrough definitely feels like an authentic Halo experience.

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7 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

No I'm still going on the promise that the 3rd/4th/5th "playthrough" are as good as people say, I'm familiar with how the game is formatted. This 2nd play through actually sucks though, 9s combat is lame. I'm powering through this to get to the good part. 

 

I also don't need this game to be as sexualized as it is, every time you sprint it's an upskirt shot of 2b in her thong, and if you self destruct it just blows the skirt off altogether lmao. 

Yoko Taro just really likes girls. Kaine in the original Nier is just as bad if not worse.

I really enjoyed the 8 bit soundtrack while hacking. Such a cool transition for the OST while playing the game.

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43 minutes ago, Faeyrin said:

The final release of SPV3 could more be considered a 'remake' of CE rather than 'remaster'. In the same vein of Final Fantasy 7 Remake to its OG. Several levels have been expanded, there's a completely new level, and has a completely new mini-campaign with its own unique sandbox. It's honestly got some really strong points and it's crazy to see how far they were able to push the engine. That said though, it kind of buckles beneath its own weight. There's so much going on that replayability is cut down by a large margin because you'll remember sections that were just entirely too much chaos and not look forward to it. It's like each individual aspect of SPV3 is pretty good on its own and many combinations are great, but if everything's thrown in at once then you'll swear you're playing Big Team Fiesta instead of a campaign. Sections with both Covenant and Flood kind of feel like that. I also have no idea how anyone can beat 'Noble' difficulty, the setting above Legendary. But the first playthrough definitely feels like an authentic Halo experience.

Agreed. Personally, I found SPV3 too easy. I played on legendary first, then noble. The game's very generous with powerful weapons like sniper rifles and rocket launchers, a little too much imo. Even common weapons like plasma rifles, assault rifles and brute shots are really powerful. It felt like playing standard CE on something in between heroic and legendary. Tone down the damage output on most weapons by around 10%, and it'd make for better difficulty tuning. The added weapon variety did decrease the simplistic magic of CE, and I would have remedied this by forcing use of certain weapons in certain situations, and by building certain encounters to play best with a certain weapon combination. That way, you have to learn to use the plasma rifle effectively, have to learn to use the needler effectively, etc. 

The thing I loved about CE was that the game always provided you with the tools to dissect otherwise-extraordinarily difficult encounters, but still forced you to be competent with the pistol and your secondary, since that would be all you had against other encounters, which were still fairly tough. 

CE has the best difficulty balancing of any single player game I've seen. 

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CE's enemies are also the only ones who felt threatening. They felt like they were legitimately trying to hunt you down, and not just dumb, inert meatbags that the developer put there for you to kick the shit out of. 

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Bungie designers have talked about their AI before, at places like GDC or the occasional deepdive web post. The way the code this AI is rather like a branching tree and they say that the AI appears more intelligent the further it can progress down this decision making tree. Supposedly the tree logic has been 'improved' with each of their games...but I just didn't really see it past CE. I think it's another case of over-design. Enemies have one job: try to kill the player. It doesn't need elaborate systems.

I will say though that Destiny 1 felt really good when you were a little below or exactly at the recommended power level for an activity. Enemies were actually very dynamic without being bullet spongey. They'd aggress, retreat, flank, dodge, the whole nine yards. But once you leveled past the recommend power level and had the good exotic gear, everything outside of Nightfalls and Raids was steamrolled.

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