Halo Infinite Discussion

[Larry Sizemore]

1 hour ago, Riddler said:

I agree that a 1.0 kill time is a good compromise between ce and later.

I always see a comment like this in every kill time discussion on here, and it always bothers me. Why do we need to find a compromise between the Halo 1 pistol's minimum kill time (STILL THE ONLY GAME IN THE SERIES THAT HAS GOTTEN IT RIGHT), and the rough average kill time of all the BRs/DMRs/shitmagnums from the games released since, which range from decent to horrid?

[Riddler]

4 minutes ago, znot said:

Wait since when is 1.0 second kill time good? The freaking storm rifle on H5 has that and it's OP as hell.

 

Granted I looked up CE and that is about 1 second with a perfect 3 shot from a pistol. But how often do you land all perfect shots?

 

 

Are we saying all guns should have 1 second ttk or just precisions?

Ce has a 3sk of .6s. H2 has like a 1.4. H3 has a 1.5. So its pretty smack dab in the middle. Its sorta implied on this forum we dont want a h3 utility where ur expected to hit every shot. So perfect ttk of 1.0 but u prob wont get a 1.0, a 1.333 or 1.666 or 2.0 is gunna happen a lot.
 

an ar can have a 1.0 ttk but its gunna be longer in practice. The ar has a faster ttk iirc than the h3 br but u know how that works out. 
 

Autos just arent good for comp because they make it so you cant be outplayed/outshot. Im fine with them being the noob gun to get u pulled in. 

[Basu]

12 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

I always see a comment like this in every kill time discussion on here, and it always bothers me. Why do we need to find a compromise between the Halo 1 pistol's minimum kill time (STILL THE ONLY GAME IN THE SERIES THAT HAS GOTTEN IT RIGHT), and the rough average kill time of all the BRs/DMRs/shitmagnums from the games released since, which range from decent to horrid?

From what I've seen this stems from the fact CE is mainly a 2v2 game and 4v4 and higher doesn't play very well due to the spawn system and a good portion of the comp maps being too small. The logic goes: 4v4 has more teamshot so a 0.6s TTK gun would just melt people instantly with teamshot, let's go for 1.0s.

Idk, I think we'd have to thoroughly test it and I hope MCC PC allows such modding, from what we've already seen of mods during the flight it should be possible. Somewhere between 0.6s and 1.0s is definitly the sweet spot but it's hard to tell as there are many factors such as average player accuracy and aim assist (which determines average vs optimum TTK), hitscan or projectile, projectile speed and average engagement distance, strafing, spawn system etc etc. Reach Anniversary settings had 0.9s I think and personally I loved that, it felt amazing. GoldPro is 1.2s and also feels great. I never played much Evolved but that is also 0.9s IIRC.

And then there's the whole netcode and latency thing. Just like projectile being the better model in theory we can't say that for online Halo especially with 343 in charge and their "servers". CE has never been a strong online game so it's not really strong precedent. Also we all know games with too short kill times can feel like shit online due to latency (or on LAN too if you're CoD and have built-in engine delay lmao). You can literally die before you even know you're getting shot in most modern shooters which is just horseshit and why Halo has always been the superior game IMO.

[Larry Sizemore]

9 minutes ago, Basu said:

From what I've seen this stems from the fact CE is mainly a 2v2 game and 4v4 and higher doesn't play very well due to the spawn system and a good portion of the comp maps being too small. The logic goes: 4v4 has more teamshot so a 0.6s TTK gun would just melt people instantly with teamshot, let's go for 1.0s.

Idk, I think we'd have to thoroughly test it and I hope MCC PC allows such modding, from what we've already seen of mods during the flight it should be possible. Somewhere between 0.6s and 1.0s is definitly the sweet spot but it's hard to tell as there are many factors such as average player accuracy and aim assist (which determines average vs optimum TTK), hitscan or projectile, projectile speed and average engagement distance, strafing, spawn system etc etc. Reach Anniversary settings had 0.9s I think and personally I loved that, it felt amazing. GoldPro is 1.2s and also feels great. I never played much Evolved but that is also 0.9s IIRC.

And then there's the whole netcode and latency thing. Just like hitscan being the better model in theory we can't say that for online Halo especially with 343 in charge and their "servers". CE has never been a strong online game so it's not really strong precedent. Also we all know games with too short kill times can feel like shit online due to latency (or on LAN too if you're CoD and have built-in engine delay lmao). You can literally die before you even know you're getting shot in most modern shooters which is just horseshit and why Halo has always been the superior game IMO.

There is no teamshot in H1 4v4 on either the MCC or in any of the old tournament footage I've seen. Its simply not necessary. Teamshot only became a thing from H2 onward because the equipment was downgraded.

[Riddler]

teamshot isn't something that particularly valuable. in ce ur still baiting and switching the same. dealing the most damage while trying to take the least. relying more on yourself and less on teamshot is just a subjective trade of skills. 

There's also plenty of teamshooting in ce lol. you can just kill people by yourself whereas if you watch the latest h3, it's usually shoot someone 2-3x, u take cover and a teammate tries to clean the other guy up on both sides. but it's the same in ce, people get away 1shot or whatever and another guy will push. 

[Cursed Lemon]

13 minutes ago, Riddler said:

There's also plenty of teamshooting in ce lol.

Pro tip for the kids at home:

"Teamshot" doesn't necessarily have to mean "shooting the same guy at the same time". Finishing him off later is still a form of it.

[Mow]

We definitely should do a bunch of testing once we have the games on PC, the Evolved settings were fun to take part in but were ultimately ruined by a lack of customization, I think the 4sk Magnum felt great if it wasn't for H5's terrible aiming and the stupid amounts of aim assist.

[Larry Sizemore]

3 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Pro tip for the kids at home:

"Teamshot" doesn't necessarily have to mean "shooting the same guy at the same time". Finishing him off later is still a form of it.

That's teamwork, not teamshot.

[LI Mr X IL]

What about a starting magnum that’s a three shot kill with 12 rounds but has a fire rate of one shot every 0.4s. I think this would accomplish a few things. For one it would have a perfect kill time of 0.8s which is still very quick and the fastest kill time of any halo after CE. Second, the slower fire rate would punish each missed shot more and cause the utility weapon’s effectiveness to drop off more rapidly at lower skill levels where the autos would then become more viable alternatives. Lastly, it would make the magnum feel less spammy and make it feel beefier. It would help convey the fact that the magnum isn’t just a “side arm” but a badass hand cannon that can destroy people in the right hands.

[Mow]

8 minutes ago, LI Mr X IL said:

What about a starting magnum that’s a three shot kill with 12 rounds but has a fire rate of one shot every 0.4s. I think this would accomplish a few things. For one it would have a perfect kill time of 0.8s which is still very quick and the fastest kill time of any halo after CE. Second, the slower fire rate would punish each missed shot more and cause the utility weapon’s effectiveness to drop off more rapidly at lower skill levels where the autos would then become more viable alternatives. Lastly, it would make the magnum feel less spammy and make it feel beefier. It would help convey the fact that the magnum isn’t just a “side arm” but a badass hand cannon that can destroy people in the right hands.

I've thought about this before and I definitely like the idea of having a proper hand cannon in Halo, hopefully with mods we can test something like that out.

[Cursed Lemon]

6 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

That's teamwork, not teamshot.

Shutup Zyos

[NavG123]

13 hours ago, LI Mr X IL said:

What about a starting magnum that’s a three shot kill with 12 rounds but has a fire rate of one shot every 0.4s. I think this would accomplish a few things. For one it would have a perfect kill time of 0.8s which is still very quick and the fastest kill time of any halo after CE. Second, the slower fire rate would punish each missed shot more and cause the utility weapon’s effectiveness to drop off more rapidly at lower skill levels where the autos would then become more viable alternatives. Lastly, it would make the magnum feel less spammy and make it feel beefier. It would help convey the fact that the magnum isn’t just a “side arm” but a badass hand cannon that can destroy people in the right hands.

I believe a 3-shot weapon with 0.4s fire rate has a 1.2s kill time.

Alternatively we could do a 800,000-shot gun with a fire rate of 1m rounds per second, but I fear the casuals may not be able to comprehend such a number, so I think the 3-shot weapon is the way we go.

[znot]

I kind of want to talk visuals. things like visual clarity, telegraphing and silhouettes.

I don't know whether they added the sniper glare to h5 because the spartan model has a different silhouette with the sniper or because the game is just generally more visually busy?

In h3 I could pretty much tell across the map when someone was scoping me down with a sniper, just by their posture and head position. Straight back, head hunched forward to the scope. BAM my head is gone.

 

Also reminds me that h5 weapons now have to be outlined on the map, again because the game is visually cluttered and nothing stands out. Every Halo into Reach, the guns were black sticks, and still stuck out in the environment. What happened? Maybe they don't and 343 just chose this route for QoL improvements. It's not game breaking by any means but supports my statement of the glare addition. 

 

Telegraphing

One of the reasons I dislike thrust is the lack of telegraphing. Something like a jump in traditional halo can't just be done out of nowhere in the heat of battle (well it can). If you're strafing left, you can't just instantly jump to the right and outplay me. No it's telegraphed. Either your spartan will slow down first, then jump to the right. Or if you don't stop and continue strafing left, if you jump the momentum will make take you straight up, not all the way to the right.

Thrust doesn't work this way, there's no momentum to keep you going one direction... If you're walking left you can THRUST right and there's pretty much nothing for me to do about it.

 

 

Can they at least give it momentum so if I'm moving left, I only thrust HALF the distance the opposite way.. I mean, if you wanna get lore technical about it, i doubt those thrusters could move a 2 ton spartan that far if they're moving the opposite way. thrust is dumb.

 

 

 

 

[Snipe Three]

27 minutes ago, znot said:

I kind of want to talk visuals. things like visual clarity, telegraphing and silhouettes.

I don't know whether they added the sniper glare to h5 because the spartan model has a different silhouette with the sniper or because the game is just generally more visually busy?

In h3 I could pretty much tell across the map when someone was scoping me down with a sniper, just by their posture and head position. Straight back, head hunched forward to the scope. BAM my head is gone.

 

Also reminds me that h5 weapons now have to be outlined on the map, again because the game is visually cluttered and nothing stands out. Every Halo into Reach, the guns were black sticks, and still stuck out in the environment. What happened? Maybe they don't and 343 just chose this route for QoL improvements. It's not game breaking by any means but supports my statement of the glare addition. 

 

Telegraphing

One of the reasons I dislike thrust is the lack of telegraphing. Something like a jump in traditional halo can't just be done out of nowhere in the heat of battle (well it can). If you're strafing left, you can't just instantly jump to the right and outplay me. No it's telegraphed. Either your spartan will slow down first, then jump to the right. Or if you don't stop and continue strafing left, if you jump the momentum will make take you straight up, not all the way to the right.

Thrust doesn't work this way, there's no momentum to keep you going one direction... If you're walking left you can THRUST right and there's pretty much nothing for me to do about it.

 

 

Can they at least give it momentum so if I'm moving left, I only thrust HALF the distance the opposite way.. I mean, if you wanna get lore technical about it, i doubt those thrusters could move a 2 ton spartan that far if they're moving the opposite way. thrust is dumb.

 

 

 

 

I think the bottom line is the art direction post H3 has been total ass by comparison. Some of it might be aesthetically pleasing to different people but from a functional standpoint everything in Halo 3 pops and is obvious at a glance like it should be in an FPS. Its easily the peak of the series in that department and it is not even close. The art in the Infinite reveal actually gave me some hope that the art team if nothing else took a step back and noticed. Whoever worked on Halo 3 and decided how its colors/textures would be used deserves an award because they're still spanking most people who produce FPS games over a decade later

[Arlong]

10 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

I think the bottom line is the art direction post H3 has been total ass by comparison. Some of it might be aesthetically pleasing to different people but from a functional standpoint everything in Halo 3 pops and is obvious at a glance like it should be in an FPS. Its easily the peak of the series in that department and it is not even close. The art in the Infinite reveal actually gave me some hope that the art team if nothing else took a step back and noticed. Whoever worked on Halo 3 and decided how its colors/textures would be used deserves an award because they're still spanking most people who produce FPS games over a decade later

I still enjoy hRs art style. The rough unpolished looking armor, letting you clearly know you’ve seen battle.

[Arlong]

I feel people don’t give reach enough credit, regarding art style. Like look at any reach map, and even the cea remakes. All these maps look beautiful, and the textures are great as well. 
the biggest problem is forge being grey. 

[Snipe Three]

6 hours ago, Arlong said:

I feel people don’t give reach enough credit, regarding art style. Like look at any reach map, and even the cea remakes. All these maps look beautiful, and the textures are great as well. 
the biggest problem is forge being grey. 

I honestly just don't really agree. I think the way Reach launched looks disgusting with how things blur and render. I can see people liking the gritty approach but visibility wise stepping away from subjective like/dislike its just inferior

[Basu]

Reach has some sweet environmental art but the spartans, vehicles and most of the weapons look fugly. Even at 4k and without film grain and motion blur I just feel "yuck" when looking at the Reach Spartans.

[Shekkles]

3 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

I honestly just don't really agree. I think the way Reach launched looks disgusting with how things blur and render. I can see people liking the gritty approach but visibility wise stepping away from subjective like/dislike its just inferior

The skyboxes in Reach are phenomenal imo

[Arlong]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/mcc-development-update-november-2019

[MultiLockOn]

Reach forerunner isn't great and I think the UNSC weapons are too busy. But this is comparing it to H3 which is king. On the whole nothing Bungie has made has ever looked bad. You really can't overstate how incredible their art and audio team is. 

[Mow]

10 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Reach forerunner isn't great and I think the UNSC weapons are too busy. But this is comparing it to H3 which is king. On the whole nothing Bungie has made has ever looked bad. You really can't overstate how incredible their art and audio team is. 

Say what you will about Bungie and Destiny but Destiny has some of the best art and audio in the industry. 

[MultiLockOn]

13 hours ago, Mow said:

Say what you will about Bungie and Destiny but Destiny has some of the best art and audio in the industry. 

No disagreement here. The Dreaming City in D2 might be the best looking thing I've ever seen in a game. 

 

Links for anyone curious to see what they're capable of

 

 

[RVG E Nomini]

I got to play Halo 1 NHE (neutral host edition) last night and it's incredible. If 343 finds a way to make H1 on MCC play like that (please fix the 180 glitch with rockets though, and the bumpmapping on textures) then I think the game can make a real comeback. No spread on the pistol, training mode, and a lot of user made maps would be a godsend. Crossing my fingers.

[Hard Way]

9 hours ago, RVG E Nomini said:

I got to play Halo 1 NHE (neutral host edition) last night and it's incredible. If 343 finds a way to make H1 on MCC play like that (please fix the 180 glitch with rockets though, and the bumpmapping on textures) then I think the game can make a real comeback. No spread on the pistol, training mode, and a lot of user made maps would be a godsend. Crossing my fingers.

Favorite new map?