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So are these variants going to be exclusive to the Battle Royale or are we going to be able to unlock them for our custom loadouts in a cod-like progression system in season 2?

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3 hours ago, OldBlu said:

I don't know if I agree with your ultimate conclusion that a quicker BR that shoots straight is the solution. But otherwise this is a lot of truth that needs to be said. We aren't ever getting CE again unless it's from a Indy dev. And 343 cares first about the hyper casual Warzone/btb crowd (maybe mistakenly but still true). That's who they are balancing the game for first. And there are way more consumers to buy skins who are nostalgic for H2 and H3 (4v4) than CE (2v2).

All that I ask is we ask for the best possible solution without losing reality. Be as optimistic or as theoretically ideal as you want. But factor in reality.

 

No that BR absolutely isn't, it still needs changes, but its the closest thing that we know exists in the sandbox so that's my example.  People need to define what they mean by "fast TTK".  a 1 - 1.2 second ttk is fast for halo. "But CE was .6" yeah sure. 1/7 games had a faster TTK than 1.2.  H2 was 1.4 i believe, H3 1.5, H4 doesn't count, Reach was fucking 1.6.  Of course the one thing they got right in Halo 5 was to speed that shit up to 1.2. 

Not that i want a .6s ttk, regardless of what the "average" is. Which btw is impossible to calculate since it changes as skill level does. But even if i did, i wouldn't be making the argument that we need that in Infinite because similar to what OldBlu said, i live in a place called reality.  1.2 is on the outside edge of being realistic since that weapon already exists in the sandbox.  

This is all obviously theoretical.  I hope to god on the 8th these weapon variants will be available for customs so we can try this shit out for real instead of guestimating against thumbless bots.

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16 minutes ago, OldBlu said:

So are these variants going to be exclusive to the Battle Royale or are we going to be able to unlock them for our custom loadouts in a cod-like progression system in season 2?

What Battle Royale? 

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On 11/28/2021 at 4:49 AM, Reamis25 said:

H5 perfect TTK was 1.2 seconds, you could pop off with the magnum. There were decent times I killed a guy before his teammate could pop 5 shots then I won the fight due to him missing. The h5 magnum was the 2nd best utility ever.

Yeah H5 magnum was good.

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41 minutes ago, Diehards said:

What Battle Royale? 

We have clips of Jeff saying "battle royale," footage of a revive mechanic, footage of a shrinking circle mechanic, a "sidearm" pistol, infinite already has open world style play spaces, 343 loves chasing trends...just connecting the dots.

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I agree a 4sk H5 magnum with lower magnetism is likely as close to an ideal starting weapon as we could get in modern Halo.

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2 hours ago, Mow said:

And yet here you are.

Spending more time posting about how shitty infinite is instead of playing it? Yep, here I am. 

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11 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Spending more time posting about how shitty infinite is instead of playing it? Yep, here I am. 

So you hate it SO much that you'd rather spend all day talking about it instead of doing... literally anything else?

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It's possible to like talking about it yaknow.

I think having some discussion on the reasons for failure is good for posterity too

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1 minute ago, Mow said:

So you hate it SO much that you'd rather spend all day talking about it instead of doing... literally anything else?

More like a few minutes here & there during my downtime, but I appreciate your concern.

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3 minutes ago, Gobias said:

Minimum TTK has little bearing on the probability of being able to turn on someone—probabilities depend on averages, so it’s the average TTK that will determine how often you can get an uncontested kill. Also, just being able to physically turn around on someone by reacting in time is no good if there’s almost zero chance of getting the reversal. There’s a reason why I was such a strong advocate of a 4SK Magnum in H5 with lower magnetism—keep the average TTK the same so that it doesn’t start feeling like CoD, but decrease the minimum TTK to increase outplay potential.

I won’t try to convince you that that Striker variant would be perfect, obviously. Even with significantly lower magnetism, the fire rate is so high that I think you could get consistent 4SKs on unaware targets before they can react. On a target moving somewhat predictably, you hardly need to adjust your aim between shots. I would prefer a longer fire interval—something like 0.25 to 0.35 seconds.  For a 3SK weapon that ranges from 0.5 seconds to 0.7 seconds, and for a 4SK it’s 0.75 to 1.05 seconds. I myself don’t see any reason for the minimum TTK to be less than half a second, but I think at that point the fire rate becomes critical, for how the gun feels to shoot as well.

Here’s the thing about that average time to kill statistic. There will be perfect kills, but mostly against unaware or jumping targets (jumping in a fight is a near death sentence in Halo 1). A good strafing opponent will all but force a TTK well beyond the average if the gun takes the right amount of skill (and I define that as a weapon whose average TTK in an even-skilled 1v1 is about 2-3 times the minimum TTK). This means that your best bet to stay alive is often to try to win the fight rather than run away. Staying alive has been king in Halo since 2004, but I think it would be interesting to encourage the less-shielded player to deal as much damage as possible before dying rather than dealing no damage and running, because then you’re just an easy target running in a straight line. But I could be wrong because Slide is a supremely degenerate escape tool. 

Sorry for the generic 4SK post, but it’s been almost six years since my last big one so I think I deserve it.

np, i totally see where you're coming from.  And logically i understand the arguments from a technical sense. Having played every halo game extensively (i even put in like 700 games with Halo 4 if you can believe that) as well as dozens of other shooters, i know what i like.  But its based on "feel" which is impossible to quantify.  I like a 4sk weapon and traditionally the 4sk weapons we have had have always been too slow.

Something i don't think we address often enough is also the issue of weapons that only take <= 50% more shots to kill without a headshot.  WTF is that? A 4 shot perfect that only takes 6 body shots? 5 shots that only take 7 body shots? Why...  If it takes 5 with a headshot, it should take double that without one imo. Shield strength and health should be equal. A headshot should mean something.  If you get 2 shots into someone before they start to fire back, you don't even need to go for the head you just need to not miss to win. You should ALWAYS be encouraged to go for headshots as soon as shields break. That delta between headshots to kill and body shots to kill is included in the average ttk discussions but isn't often discussed as a specific variable. If you rely purely on forcing people to miss shots entirely in order to have a very wide gap between minimum and average TTK, by making the gun hard to hit with or having a cracked out strafe, A LOT of people will think it feels too hard and just not play.

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17 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Trailer is garbage. They showed nothing new and the entire game is set on the second level of Halo 1. 6 years of development for them to just loan Halo 1 and go "that level will do".

Can't wait to see a non-snowing Control Room.

While I’m still excited for the campaign, it really is a buzzkill that it’s only one biome

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I don't know if 5 head to 10 body is an ideal ratio either. Headshots/2 (rounded up) +1 = body shots after shields have been popped seems reasonable.

3/6, 4/7, 5/9, 6/10, 7/12

As much as accessablilty is a dirty word here, it should probably play some factor. And getting the drop on someone should still play a part in the game over pure gunskill--otherwise we'd all be playing octagon. Also if the margin gets too wide, we get to the problem of reloading frequently again.

Edit: also if you imagine all of this guns having the same ttk, the ones that require more shots obviously have a higher fire rate. So it makes sense that guns with a higher ROF take more body shots to kill. 3/6 or 4/7 is reasonably punishing with a slow rate of fire--enough to encourage headshots. Lack of trying for headshots is a bigger issue with faster ROF.

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1 hour ago, Geaux Andrew said:

It's 👏 in 👏 beta

  Reveal hidden contents

On Dec. 8, I'll start saying "It 👏 just 👏 launched. Be patient."

 

Beta Infinite: less content edition.

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51 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

More like a few minutes here & there during my downtime, but I appreciate your concern.

Apologies for being brash, was a bad time to comment on my part.

Anyways I suppose I'm just having a hard time discerning people's motives for continuing to come here and repeat the same talking points that have been discussed for years on end at this point, especially when by their own admittance they have given up hope or are done with the franchise. I'm guilty of doing the same thing and am always willing to admit so, so don't take this the wrong way as a "holier than thou" type of comment.

I'll start with what is keeping me around first.

Just before the surprise release of the multiplayer I felt that I was just about done with this franchise after what I had played in the flights (you may have seen posts from me alluding to such things) my expectations for this game were extremely low and I felt that even then the game still failed to meet my bare minimum requirement that the game had to be "fun". After multiplayer released I played ranked multiplayer BR starts with a similarly competitive minded friend of mine and we both found that actually, this was some of the most fun we'd had gaming in a long time, especially after playing the colossal failure that was Battlefield 2042 (a franchise that I have been a fan of since BFBC1 and had been looking forward to the new release) and being forced to play the repetitive actionless trash that is Apex Legends for years on end. Obviously this all goes without saying but this is all just my opinion and I don't expect anyone else to think the same. So in the end I concluded that maybe I'm not entirely ready to give up hope on the franchise as I had previously believed, which brings us to today.

My current hope is that we can get a Mouse&Keyboard HCS League for the game instead of the forced crossplay experiment they are trying with the current HCS. I don't think that hope is even particularly far fetched due to the fact that the crossplay HCS experiment will inevitably fail when they see that there are absolutely 0 MKB players in the HCS World Finals, I imagine they will have to do some rethinking after that. I think it would give a breath of new life, potential and opportunites to a tired 2 decade old franchise and also bring in a lot of new blood too, and quite frankly I'm enjoying how it plays on MKB so far, which is as surprising to me as it is anyone else here, believe me. 

So my attention now turns back to those that would describe themselves as having "given up hope" or those that are "done" with the franchise.

My questions to you are;

If you have any remaining hopes for the future of the franchise, what are they?

If there are none, what keeps you coming back to these forums to discuss Halo?

At the end of the day we are all Halo fans, and I suppose I have concluded that I'm not ready to give up yet. Call me a dreamer (I've always been an optimist) but if not for the hope of a better future for the franchise, I doubt I would ever spend the time to come back here.

 

Once again sorry for how I came across in my previous posts, and thanks if you took the time to read and consider the things I have said. I appreciate anyone who takes the time out of their day to have an honest dialogue, even if we may disagree.

 

43 minutes ago, Geaux Andrew said:

We've been talking about Halo more than playing it since 2012, some 2010. Where have you been?

Speak for yourself, I've always played more than I've commented. :simms:

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I've been enjoying the game. Like enough to want to improve. Some stuff really sucks but overall a B from me.

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22 minutes ago, Mow said:

My questions to you are;

If you have any remaining hopes for the future of the franchise, what are they?

If there are none, what keeps you coming back to these forums to discuss Halo?

 

I know this isn't addressed to me but its a public forum so fuck it lol

1) Yes. 3 main weapons changes could save this game so im hoping they make the data argument to fix what we already know. At a minimum the BR needs to kill faster and aim for you less, the AR needs to not be able to reach out so far and the Sidekick needs to have its bloom removed. Right now im liking it more than i expected but i also know the things that are wrong will grate on me until they're just too much and i drop it. Do i believe those things will be fixed? No. I think the official launch will come around and nothing will fundamentally change.  Hoping to be wrong. There are obviously a ton of additional things that need to be fleshed out, but those 3 changes could make multiple modes actually fun while we wait for the game to actually be finished.

2) I want to be present the day when @MultiLockOn comes in here saying he needs play testers. Might as well shoot the shit while im around.

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2 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

np, i totally see where you're coming from.  And logically i understand the arguments from a technical sense. Having played every halo game extensively (i even put in like 700 games with Halo 4 if you can believe that) as well as dozens of other shooters, i know what i like.  But its based on "feel" which is impossible to quantify.  I like a 4sk weapon and traditionally the 4sk weapons we have had have always been too slow.

Something i don't think we address often enough is also the issue of weapons that only take <= 50% more shots to kill without a headshot.  WTF is that? A 4 shot perfect that only takes 6 body shots? 5 shots that only take 7 body shots? Why...  If it takes 5 with a headshot, it should take double that without one imo. Shield strength and health should be equal. A headshot should mean something.  If you get 2 shots into someone before they start to fire back, you don't even need to go for the head you just need to not miss to win. You should ALWAYS be encouraged to go for headshots as soon as shields break. That delta between headshots to kill and body shots to kill is included in the average ttk discussions but isn't often discussed as a specific variable. If you rely purely on forcing people to miss shots entirely in order to have a very wide gap between minimum and average TTK, by making the gun hard to hit with or having a cracked out strafe, A LOT of people will think it feels too hard and just not play.

Agreed on ease and number of body shots.  I really want to play a movement-focused FPS with a utility weapon that kills in one headshot and three bodyshots with a fire rate of about 0.5 seconds. It would be perfect for FFA, which I think is one mode that kind of sucks in Quake.

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1 hour ago, Mow said:

If you have any remaining hopes for the future of the franchise, what are they?

Even though Halo Infinite has seriously regressed in a lot of ways from Halo 5, they have also given us some half decent out of the box competitive settings. And those settings are pretty well distinguished from the social settings.

So even though we've got a rough sandbox with a slow and easy BR and seriously too few/infrequent power weapons on maps (I suspect some of 343s pro team and the "forerunner" content creators have something to do with this), if 343 has any intent to actually support this game in the long term, respond to community feed back, and update the balance frequently, I have some hope that at least ranked settings can slowly be molded into something enjoyable.

Until then the real reason I'm here is that I have more friends playing halo than I've had since Halo 3. And I want to at least talk about what would make it better as long as there's a chance this could be the game my friend group ends up playing for any amount of time.

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14 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

I know this isn't addressed to me but its a public forum so fuck it lol

1) Yes. 3 main weapons changes could save this game so im hoping they make the data argument to fix what we already know. At a minimum the BR needs to kill faster and aim for you less, the AR needs to not be able to reach out so far and the Sidekick needs to have its bloom removed. Right now im liking it more than i expected but i also know the things that are wrong will grate on me until they're just too much and i drop it. Do i believe those things will be fixed? No. I think the official launch will come around and nothing will fundamentally change.  Hoping to be wrong. There are obviously a ton of additional things that need to be fleshed out, but those 3 changes could make multiple modes actually fun while we wait for the game to actually be finished.

2) I want to be present the day when @MultiLockOn comes in here saying he needs play testers. Might as well shoot the shit while im around.

I'm going to be honest I've given up on playing anything but ranked play. The only weapon change I care about is the BR and any readjustments that need to come with it. Stop holding people's hands with aim assist/bullet magnetism and let it kill faster. There are a multitude of benefits that will come just from that. Skill gap in the game is overall increased because ranked is >70% BRs. Teamshot is reduced. Other weapons if readjusted for the new ttk will see more use because now the BR isn't superior to everything by virtue of the fact it aims for you. MnK players will be on a more even footing because the number 1 offender for controller aim assist (The BR) will be nerfed. Etc. Etc.

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