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It kind of does have a logic. Easy to use, mediocre utility weapon with empty weapon slot really make you want to take advantage of everything what's on the map, including equipment. This scavenging aspect could bring whole new layer of meta. Different approach, can't say I don't like it. More I am thinking about it, more interesting it sounds. They may have something here actually.

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Looks like this is still accurate: 

CE > H2 > ZBNS Reach > H2A > H5 > Halo Infinite > H3 > H4 > Default Reach

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1 hour ago, l1nk22 said:

A complete overhaul? You only mentioned increasing the mag size...

The Sidekick is intended as a secondary for Social (or a starting weapon for Battle Royale). I could see 343 giving it any number of buffs. In fact I'd advocate for fewer shots to kill, no bloom, a deep magazine.

But there are kids on waypoint that think the Sidekick is already too powerful as is, and since the gun is designed for those kids and not for us I think it's just as likely they listen to them.

So could it make become a 6sk with the same TTK? Sure. Maybe to reduce the spam a little because no one seems to like that. But is it getting an 18 round mag, no bloom, and a scope? I highly doubt it.

Certainly advocate for buffs. But know what you're asking for. They might buff the sidekick, but it's not going to be a utility weapon.

We have a much better chance at 343 fixing the BR. Or we even have a better chance that they'll introduce a Magnum or DMR that better fits what we're after (though I doubt it).

The people saying that what we've been given is the best we could hope for are right. Now hopefully since this is supposedly a live service game 343 will be responsive to our feedback. But it's crystal clear this game wasn't made for us and it's wishful thinking--to say the least--to say they will suddenly about face and give us what we've been crying for this last decade. Maybe another decade will do it.

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2 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Looks like this is still accurate: 

CE > H2 > ZBNS Reach > H2A > H5 > Halo Infinite > H3 > H4 > Default Reach

What is funny to me is nearly all of those games could be 1st with like 5-6 tweaks per game lol

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6 minutes ago, ripharambe said:

What if I told you I thought the BR was easy in those games too and that that was unacceptable?

Of course it's not acceptable. The point I was making is that the BR is easier in those games than in Infinite. In H2C if you six-shot it's an embarrassment.

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Lets not forget about all the l33t DLC weapons that are going to be trickling in. Maybe there'll be an attachment for the BR that removes the recoil and another that increases the fire rate. that'll be sweet

 

/s

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2 minutes ago, Hemlax said:

It kind of does have a logic. Easy to use, mediocre utility weapon with empty weapon slot really make you want to take advantage of everything what's on the map, including equipment. This scavenging aspect could bring whole new layer of meta. Different approach, can't say I don't like it. More I am thinking about it, more interesting it sounds. They may have something here actually.

If you spawn players at a disadvantage to 90% of the sandbox, it doesn’t make it better if you admit it was a conscious design decision. This is Halo 5 all over again, except the aiming difficulty will now be 100% determined by distance to the server (or something similarly dumb).

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30 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

NGL I am completely mystified at people saying the BR is easy in this game, it's like they never played Halo 2, or H2A, or Halo 5, or even Halo 3. BR fights over top of middle Bazaar are an exercise in torture.

H2 had shitty hitreg which to me made it feel harder than it really was. Tbh though I don’t remember what the BR feels like in OG H2 on the Xbox, only MCC and vista. Vista actually had a bit of nuance to it because aiming at the head wouldn’t always register, you would have to “lead” your shot a very specific amount to get them to connect reliably. It was just really annoying because it wasn’t consistent.

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12 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Looks like this is still accurate: 

CE > H2 > ZBNS Reach > H2A > H5 > Halo Infinite > H3 > H4 > Default Reach

Personally I'd go CE >>> H2 = H5 pistols only >>>>>>>>> ZBNS Reach > Halo Infinite > Halo 3 > Halo 5 with ARs and Gaydar >>>>>>>>>>>>>> H4 = Default Reach

Edit: Fully aware I'll be crucified for this but I'll stand by it.

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I suppose I'm just extremely underwhelmed that we waited 6 years for... a grappling hook?

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2 hours ago, xSociety said:

It's "less invasive" for sure but it's still stupid as fuck. It makes the watching experience worse and it feels dumb to have to do in-game. It's just straight up not necessary, which makes it frustrating. 

Clamber is probably worse at this point. So many jumps were designed so you have to clamber and I called it from the first image of that map. 

 

That's fair. I do agree that if sprint and slide were removed, and some of the other things like TTK were adjusted, this would feel very much like a traditional Halo game ( a la 3). I mean I'm not a HUGE fan of the maps shown, but they were already infinitely better than reach and 4. 

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39 minutes ago, Gobias said:

If you spawn players at a disadvantage to 90% of the sandbox, it doesn’t make it better if you admit it was a conscious design decision. This is Halo 5 all over again, except the aiming difficulty will now be 100% determined by distance to the server (or something similarly dumb).

I got your point. I am just trying to think outside of the box and see the game as it is. I don't think It will feel and play anything like Halo 5 honestly.

Also let's not forget H5 competitive started with assault rifle, radar and Contra getting multikills with SMG. We start miles ahead this time.

Also, I might be naive here, but eSports seems bit more than just mere marketing tool this time around. If it takes off, changes may be quicker and more radical.

 

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1 minute ago, Hemlax said:

I got your point. I am just trying to think outside of the box and see the game as it is. I don't think It will feel and play anything like Halo 5 honestly.

Also let's not forget H5 competitive started with assault rifle, radar and Contra getting multikills with SMG. We start miles ahead this time.

My problem with their philosophy is that it encourages players to actively avoid confrontation unless they have a weapon-specific or numerical advantage. Your individual skill has nothing to do with, because the spawn weapon is easy to use but weak; the exact opposite of a how a true utility weapon should be balanced. Off spawn, you will always lose to another player with a better weapon or to teamshot. If you get into an individual engagement, your BEST hope is that you leave it with one shot of health left, frantically trying to hide and let your shield recharge before you're picked off. 

You have no power, other than to try and find something better on the map. 

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15 minutes ago, Hemlax said:

I got your point. I am just trying to think outside of the box and see the game as it is. I don't think It will feel and play anything like Halo 5 honestly.

Also let's not forget H5 competitive started with assault rifle, radar and Contra getting multikills with SMG. We start miles ahead this time.

Don't forget they wanted breakout to be the competitive game mode too.

40 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Of course it's not acceptable. The point I was making is that the BR is easier in those games than in Infinite. In H2C if you six-shot it's an embarrassment.

Honestly, I'll take your word for it. The 2 Halo games I have the most time in are CE and 5 so all the games with BR starts kinda blend together for me in terms of how easy the utility weapon is to shoot. I'll invest some time into the comp playlist once Infinite launches and see if my opinion changes.

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53 minutes ago, Hully said:

I still don't think Infinite is going to be a game I'll want to play, but with these settings it will be a game I'll probably enjoy watching. I just don't understand why there was so much mystery about this. Why not test these settings in the public flight? The amount of AR vs AR or Sidekick vs Sidekick fights I got in during the flight dwarfs the amount of BR fights. I now feel like I didn't even get a taste of what actual Halo Infinite will be. And if they're able to recognize the necessity of the BR, why the fuck is BTB going to be AR starts?

I’ll answer the BR starts not being in BTB. People want vehicle to be really good and I guess in BR starts they feel they’re not so good, and less movement or whatever 

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6 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

My problem with their philosophy is that it encourages players to actively avoid confrontation unless they have a weapon-specific or numerical advantage. Your individual skill has nothing to do with, because the spawn weapon is easy to use but weak; the exact opposite of a how a true utility weapon should be balanced. Off spawn, you will always lose to another player with a better weapon or to teamshot. If you get into an individual engagement, your BEST hope is that you leave it with one shot of health left, frantically trying to hide and let your shield recharge before you're picked off. 

You have no power, other than to try and find something better on the map. 

I would like to believe Br is not that useless against every other gun on the map. Haven't tested all that much against real players though. All I remember it felt godlike compared to sidekick.

But hey, I will be first to say the settings suck if they do. 

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39 minutes ago, DyZ said:

 

That's fair. I do agree that if sprint and slide were removed, and some of the other things like TTK were adjusted, this would feel very much like a traditional Halo game ( a la 3). I mean I'm not a HUGE fan of the maps shown, but they were already infinitely better than reach and 4. 

I actually like slide. 

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39 minutes ago, Mow said:

I suppose I'm just extremely underwhelmed that we waited 6 years for... a grappling hook?

This is what bothers me more than anything. 6 years and nothing groundbreaking* with the battlepass also being insanely predatory I am pretty disappointed overall.

 

*Forge could actually be nuts and maybe I will feel a little better. Assuming campaign is gonna suck

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4 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

This is what bothers me more than anything. 6 years and nothing groundbreaking* with the battlepass also being insanely predatory I am pretty disappointed overall.

 

*Forge could actually be nuts and maybe I will feel a little better. Assuming campaign is gonna suck

If the leaks are to be believe the campaign is basically a giant retcon of halo 4 and 5 with a Cortana replacement.  Not that it matters i guess. I don't play halo for the campaign.  I play the campaign to get the achievements.  Even if the plot sucks, if there are a bunch of fun set-pieces it doesn't matter.  It can't possible be worse than Halo 5...  

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4 hours ago, Riddler said:

cant believe there are people on this forum who unironically think commando is a good starting wep for competitive settings. Gun battles being determined by RNG is not competitive. 

It's an interesting conundrum. What do you think is worse for Halo: teamshot meta or RNG spread?

3 hours ago, ripharambe said:

Aim assist is hard because that's something you have to feel out so it's subjective to people's personal biases and memories. Bullet mag though is easy. Pull up infinite training ground and see at what point you get red reticle with precision weapons such as the Sidekick, BR, and Commando. BR is about the same as previous games where just a slight bit of the outside reticle touching turns it red. Not good but also not really different from the BR in 2, 3, or 4. Commando iirc is a little bit more than the BR but still doesn't require anything more than a third of the reticle for it to turn red. Sidekick requires a full half which is way more than anything but CE.

 

I can't find the video anymore, but aim assist tests have been done before to compare the trilogy games. Make a dummy walk through the FOV of a player and then measure the angle displacement. Or walk past an enemy without moving your reticle and again measure the angle of displacement.

Interesting, so the sidecuck really requires such accurate aim to get RRR, and yet they still felt that it needed bloom and such a shallow mag? AND not be the competitive starting weapon? Weird choices over there.

1 hour ago, Twis7ed said:

H2A with clamber and sprint. Nearly 7 years later. And half a billion dollars. Really pushing the limits here. 

Finally someone says it, I thought I was taking crazy pills reading all this unanimous praise for these settings. Are we supposed to be excited that the competitive settings aren't just fucking stupid for once? Did H5 lower the bar that much?

I get why they went BR starts. This entire game is a big package of nostalgia bait, and people still consider H2/3 the pinnacle of competitive Halo. Which it was in many ways, but not because of the BR, quite the contrary actually. But this is how you get the old MLG kids to hop back on board. You have to remember that the TTK discussion and criticism of the teamshot meta comes from a few individuals that were a small minority even back on the MLG forums. It's the jaded boomers subset within the jaded boomers population. The vast majority of Halo kids loves the teamshot meta and thinks CE/Goldpro is too fast and stupid.

BR starts are a smart marketing move, but from a gameplay standpoint it will lead to the same old teamshot meta we've already seen, just with sprint, clamber, weird equipment everywhere and on worse maps. I guess it will have a following, more so than Reach/4/5 and probably H2A as well because that game was always the weird stepchild of the series.

Also, no nade hitmarkers is very good, but this again shows that 343 is clueless. Adding a cancerous mechanic to the game just to disable it in comp is such a 2010 move.

I guess if they turned up the RoF on the BR to make it like the H5 beta this would actually be sorta acceptable. But with this weird feeling 1.6 TTK BR I just don't see myself playing or watching this game.

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I swear 343 are obsessed with the “scavenging” aspect of the game like it’s some brand new concept. We’ve picked up weapons around the maps in every Halo game (some more than others). Power weapons, grenades, power ups, niche weapons… there has always been reason to pick stuff up. I don’t need to be presented with a new weapon or pickup every 5 steps though.

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33 minutes ago, ripharambe said:

Don't forget they wanted breakout to be the competitive game mode too.

:wutface:I did forget actually. Fuck. They literally pushed breakdown down their throats even if they knew no pro thought it was a good idea. 

Luckily, Kevin Franklin left to create his own studio, taking his crazy ideas with him. I must say, he did not disappoint.

 

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12 minutes ago, Basu said:

BR starts are a smart marketing move, but from a gameplay standpoint it will lead to the same old teamshot meta we've already seen

Literally every gun in Infinite will lead to this though? The settings aren't good, they're good***

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13 minutes ago, Blackeyed Blond said:

I swear 343 are obsessed with the “scavenging” aspect of the game like it’s some brand new concept. We’ve picked up weapons around the maps in every Halo game (some more than others). Power weapons, grenades, power ups, niche weapons… there has always been reason to pick stuff up. I don’t need to be presented with a new weapon or pickup every 5 steps though.

The thing is... "scavenging" is kind of a recent concept. It slowly started creeping in with H4 then they went full out in H5 and especially Infinite.

  • CE gave you options: The weapon hierarchy is rather flat, except for powerups and rockets. You can pick up stuff on the map but it doesn't give you a flat upgrade.
  • H2/2A/3/Reach is the "one gun game": it's basically only your starting weapon plus fighting over very limited power items. Map pickups are generally garbage.
  • H5 introduced "scavenging", the concept of randomly finding flat upgrade weapons scattered around the maps: Pick up an SMG or LR, suddenly you're a god compared to people off spawn. Granted this got better when we finally got that (one) balance patch, but it still exists.
6 minutes ago, Hemlax said:

:wutface:I did forget actually. Fuck. They literally pushed breakdown down their throats even if they knew no pro thought it was a good idea. 

Luckily, Kevin Franklin left to create his own studio, taking his crazy ideas with him. I must say, he did not disappoint.

 

https://steamcharts.com/app/1233550#All

Looks like he learned a lot and successfully applied H4/5 population curve again :simms:.

 

4 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Literally every gun in Infinite will lead to this though? The settings aren't good, they're good***

I'd say the Commando wouldn't, maybe because of the bloom? It can still easily finish a kill before someone sprints around the corner, which the BR can't.  Everything else, you're probably right. Sadkick you're constantly reloading and need teamshot to finish your kills. AR is just dumb all around. Stalker Rifle or Mangler? Same reload issue, plus alien guns can't be the starting gun.

The BR seems especially bad though. 1.6s perfect TTK with (alleged) lower aim assist puts is into the realm of pre-TU Reach TTKs, which is just ridiculously teamshotty.

 

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