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Halo Infinite Discussion

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14 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

I agree to an extent but I’m not against it, as of now the BR at range is pretty strong. 

It's aim assist is strong but it has a slow killtime compared to the other weapons. It's only because the sidekick and commando have to manage bloom and recoil that it may feel this way, coupled with how bad the aim feels it's not ideal.

The weapon glare is obnoxious, how the fuck are you supposed to snipe when you have full body glare and a solid outline obscuring vision. Shooting BR or Commando against another player with a precision weapon feels awful too. BR to BR on Recharge is a common example.

Weapon balance ideas can't be crystal clear when AR has a headshot bonus, too much range and no descope and precision weapons have to deal with bloom, recoil, low ammo, wonky RRR, weapon glare and bad aim feel. There's a hurdle of dumb design decisions that need to change first before a real conversation on balance can occur.

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2 hours ago, Boyo said:

You have to look at the BR (Battle Rifle) through the lens of BR (Battle Royale).  Then things begin to make sense.  The BR isn’t being balanced as the starting competitive weapon for traditional gametypes.  It’s being balanced as loot in BTBFFA.  

It's so painfully obvious.

Can't wait to drop Mombasa and run around without armor looking for a Sidekick.

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5 hours ago, Pyroteq said:

I didn't notice anyone rip into the post game carnage reports enough yet, so here goes...

TXACG6V.png

WTF is this post game carnage report? Where the hell are the actual stats?

Captures and Points... ARE THE SAME FUCKING THING!!! I agree that showing the actual objective plays on the front of the stats makes a lot of sense in objective games, but 2 columns literally have the same numbers in them.

Where are the kills?! Ya know... To show the players that actually allowed other players to get to the objective without dying? Kills are just as important but they're hidden from this screen... In fact... They're hidden altogether.

fIP12b9.png

If you want to see the stats from other players such as kills and deaths you have to actually go into that individual player, you can't just see the overall kills, etc... Halo 2 in 2004 provided 10X more detail than this. BTW, I like this obvious visual bug in a game 2 months away from release... (Yes don't ask me how the hell we lost this game lol)

Here's what the stats look like in Slayer in the post game carnage report...

srs1zRJ.png

Can't show DEATHS because that would make zoomers feel bad, so instead we'll show power weapon kills and accuracy instead of who died the most. Nothing wrong with those stats (and I welcome overall damage), but those stats should be on the next page. Kills/Deaths/Assists... FFS, it's not that hard.

If the game launches with these scoreboards in their same configuration that is seriously going to be pathetic.

From now on when I see some idiot try to tell me you should have to "fight" for the BR like it's a power weapon instead of spawning with one I'm gonna point of that the postgame stats don't count the BR as a power weapon.

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59 minutes ago, iCUBANEX said:

Dude nothing could have saved SC2. There is a no way in Hell that a game that hard would be popular. 

In the other hand Halo is not that hard compared to the competition. 

Brood War absolutely dominated the entirety of South Korea and is still popular today, distributed to PC bangs across the country and played relentlessly to the point of getting on national television. And Brood War is HARDER than SC2 by a wide margin.

You've also ignored my point about fighting games and how they're on the rise again.

Hard games can absolutely be popular.

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i haven't used teambeyond net in a very long time. Where is the thread where people discuss roster changes/rumours and other stuff? I want to know what the new rosters are rumoured to be

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7 minutes ago, cyanideAA said:

i haven't used teambeyond net in a very long time. Where is the thread where people discuss roster changes/rumours and other stuff? I want to know what the new rosters are rumoured to be

That's your thread for now but to be really honest with you nobody really has cared much about rosters for a couple of years so you'll have to wait a month or so for the new thread to start where hopefully people will be more interested 

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19 minutes ago, Soapbar said:

Brood War absolutely dominated the entirety of South Korea and is still popular today, distributed to PC bangs across the country and played relentlessly to the point of getting on national television. And Brood War is HARDER than SC2 by a wide margin.

You've also ignored my point about fighting games and how they're on the rise again.

Hard games can absolutely be popular.

Yeah that was 20 years ago, the general landscape of gaming has changed. Back in those days not many games even had functional online play. 

OK what about fighting games? Which fighting game is relevant? 

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16 minutes ago, iCUBANEX said:

Yeah that was 20 years ago, the general landscape of gaming has changed. Back in those days not many games even had functional online play. 

OK what about fighting games? Which fighting game is relevant? 

Tekken 7 still remains insanely popular. Strive and MBTL came out to record success for niche anime fighters. DBFZ is still holding strong. Breakthroughs in netcode along with a dearth of options in the fighting genre mean that while we're not SF4  renaissance-era popular the fighting game genre is gaining popularity while being some of the hardest games on the market and there has never been a better time to get into them. Tekken 7 is literally the hardest fighting game out there yet is top dog of all them, even above normal favorites like Mortal Kombat and SF.

Fighting games may not be the biggest ever, but they're one of the most accessible e-sports scenes around and I won't hear shit that they're not "relevant" by some arbitrary standard.

And Brood War is still popular TODAY. Korea is absolutely all over Brood War Remastered and Blizzard literally started a new league for the shit.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Soapbar said:

Tekken 7 still remains insanely popular. Strive and MBTL came out to record success for niche anime fighters. DBFZ is still holding strong. Breakthroughs in netcode along with a dearth of options in the fighting genre mean that while we're not SF4  renaissance-era popular the fighting game genre is gaining popularity while being some of the hardest games on the market and there has never been a better time to get into them. Tekken 7 is literally the hardest fighting game out there yet is top dog of all them, even above normal favorites like Mortal Kombat and SF.

Fighting games may not be the biggest ever, but they're one of the most accessible e-sports scenes around and I won't hear shit that they're not "relevant" by some arbitrary standard.

And Brood War is still popular TODAY. Korea is absolutely all over Brood War Remastered and Blizzard literally started a new league for the shit.

 

 

Yeah im not going to go on this discussion, you seem to have very loose standards in what relevant is. 

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I just wish I could explain to people that AR starts is boring to play and to watch in high level gameplay. Halo 5 has a long list of things I don't like but the magnum was, in my opinion, the best starting weapon since Halo 2 BR.

Side note, been dipping into more H2C and the BR definitely has a lot of aim assist, but seems to have zero magnetism. I have Red Reticle but the centre is just off their head and all 3 rounds miss. I like that a lot more than the rounds bending time and space to hit.

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6 hours ago, Soapbar said:

People just don't think. I wrote a comment there that's probably getting ignored/downvoted but the "start useless, work your way up" formula that works for other arena shooters doesn't work for Halo at all. Halo is about as far removed from an arena shooter as you can get while still keeping the name.

apparently I underestimated the r/Halo btw because I got upvoted heavily for the comment I left on that "AR's are competitively viable" post and people are dunking on the OP so hey.

maybe there is hope.

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12 minutes ago, Soapbar said:

apparently I underestimated the r/Halo btw because I got upvoted heavily for the comment I left on that "AR's are competitively viable" post and people are dunking on the OP so hey.

maybe there is hope.

Just saw it. Had a post all thought out. Got on to post it and saw yours and thought well fuck it. Said it better than I could.

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Why don't you guys just cite 343's own reason for removing ARs from H5 competitive play? I'd do it myself but I promised myself years ago to not get into arguments on /r/Halo or Waypoint anymore.

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14 minutes ago, NavG123 said:

Why don't you guys just cite 343's own reason for removing ARs from H5 competitive play? I'd do it myself but I promised myself years ago to not get into arguments on /r/Halo or Waypoint anymore.

The truth is that they don't care so its not an argument in good faith. Honestly people should just either ignore them or talk a ton of shit for fun because they're not arguing from a place of misunderstanding and they have no willingness whatsoever to see the truth or logic behind why the AR is trash. The hard truth is that 343 tuned that AR so that bad Halo players can feel good and the bad Halo players do any type of mental gymnastics possible to justify it other than just admit that they're trash, dumb (in terms of Halo) and want to play a worthless game that will suit them before it dies in two weeks.

Problem is you can't bring the truth in like that anywhere because you'll get banned lol

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57 minutes ago, Soapbar said:

apparently I underestimated the r/Halo btw because I got upvoted heavily for the comment I left on that "AR's are competitively viable" post and people are dunking on the OP so hey.

maybe there is hope.

I swear it depends on time of day

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There is absolutely a market for a deep, skillful game. However, if you want it to have AAA popularity, it needs to be an AAA title. It can't be a barebones arena shooter. The state of video game shooters on console was atrocious before Halo, and the common sentiment was that there was no place on consoles for a deep, skillful shooting game. Halo proved that wrong. Just as another game will, hopefully, come along and prove it wrong again. 

What you need is a developer with a commitment to their vision and their principles AND a well made game.  It's really challenging to make a good game that is the complete package, never mind also attempting to make it have a deep skill gap. Using examples of failed games that also happened to be an example of a potentially skillful game does not mean there is no room for skill based games. Plenty of games with no skill gap fail just as often.

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2 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

There is absolutely a market for a deep, skillful game. However, if you want it to have AAA popularity, it needs to be an AAA title. It can't be a barebones arena shooter. The state of video game shooters on console was atrocious before Halo, and the common sentiment was that there was no place on consoles for a deep, skillful shooting game. Halo proved that wrong. Just as another game will, hopefully, come along and prove it wrong again. 

What you need is a developer with a commitment to their vision and their principles AND a well made game.  It's really challenging to make a good game that is the complete package, never mind also attempting to make it have a deep skill gap. Using examples of failed games that also happened to be an example of a potentially skillful game does not mean there is no room for skill based games. Plenty of games with no skill gap fail just as often.

Yeah a lot of people get caught up in citing x, y or z that failed in similar genres but somehow miss the part where nearly every video game ever released flopped hard as fuck compared to anything that people would consider true gaming success from the point of view of popularity. Nearly every video game release from indie titles to AAA is a total failure on most scales 

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17 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

Yeah a lot of people get caught up in citing x, y or z that failed in similar genres but somehow miss the part where nearly every video game ever released flopped hard as fuck compared to anything that people would consider true gaming success from the point of view of popularity. Nearly every video game release from indie titles to AAA is a total failure on most scales 

Very true. I mean something like Sekiro, which won Game of the Year and was coming off of the Dark Souls trilogy and Bloodborne has only sold around 5 million copies or so, which pales in comparison to something like CoD or even Halo. 

Games like Prey (2017) or Dishonered 2 (pre-Gamepass) were pretty much straight up commercial flops and significantly better than anything 343 has ever produced. Legitimate quality and innovation has very little to do with a game being a huge success. 

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A proposition to replace bubble shields:

The Warper is an on-map equipment pickup that can be tossed onto the ground, much like the bubble shield was in Halo 3. Its effective radius is a hemisphere, also like the bubble shield. 

The Warper affects items that come into its hemisphere of effect; it can slow down faster projectiles (DMR, AR, Sniper Rifle) to half their original velocity, and also slow down slower projectiles (Grenades, Rockets, Plasma Projectiles)  on top of changing their angle of approach by 10-30° (kind of like the refraction of light when it enters a different medium). 

The Warper cannot prevent players from walking through its area of effect, though it can slow down their movement and push them out if they have less than maximum "walking" momentum. 

When very large objects or projectiles (Wraith mortars) approach, the Warper will exhaust itself and burn out its circuits, before disappearing in a small explosion. However, it will produce a final massive push in this instant that is capable of flinging Warthogs and light vehicles flying into the air, as well as potentially tipping over a heavy vehicle that is on precarious footing. 

The equipment does not treat any players with specialty, irrespective of team or user. 

This thing's basically a fusion of bubble shield and repulsor but tries to be a little less obnoxious than both. The inverse is a gravity well, but I feel like it wouldn't have as much situational utility. 

I've kind of dropped the puritan approach with sandbox design. It's overly restrictive and not really too sound. The benchmark is now "Would this be really annoying if I had to keep playing against it in matchmaking? Is it gonna break most of the gamemodes or maps without really offering anything in return?"

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46 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

A proposition to replace bubble shields:

The Warper is an on-map equipment pickup that can be tossed onto the ground, much like the bubble shield was in Halo 3. Its effective radius is a hemisphere, also like the bubble shield. 

The Warper affects items that come into its hemisphere of effect; it can slow down faster projectiles (DMR, AR, Sniper Rifle) to half their original velocity, and also slow down slower projectiles (Grenades, Rockets, Plasma Projectiles)  on top of changing their angle of approach by 10-30° (kind of like the refraction of light when it enters a different medium). 

The Warper cannot prevent players from walking through its area of effect, though it can slow down their movement and push them out if they have less than maximum "walking" momentum. 

When very large objects or projectiles (Wraith mortars) approach, the Warper will exhaust itself and burn out its circuits, before disappearing in a small explosion. However, it will produce a final massive push in this instant that is capable of flinging Warthogs and light vehicles flying into the air, as well as potentially tipping over a heavy vehicle that is on precarious footing. 

The equipment does not treat any players with specialty, irrespective of team or user. 

This thing's basically a fusion of bubble shield and repulsor but tries to be a little less obnoxious than both. The inverse is a gravity well, but I feel like it wouldn't have as much situational utility. 

I've kind of dropped the puritan approach with sandbox design. It's overly restrictive and not really too sound. The benchmark is now "Would this be really annoying if I had to keep playing against it in matchmaking? Is it gonna break most of the gamemodes or maps without really offering anything in return?"

I think boyo is gonna sue

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Equipment rant:

After playing the flight at least once each day it was up (and getting back into 4v4 on the last day), I've gotta say I like equipment less and less as I played at least in 4v4. In BTB it's fine, good even, but in 4v4 it was just way too much and I don't believe it is possible to properly balance them.

Mark my words, once pros figure these things out you're gonna see the equipment completely broken and requiring removal or serious re-works to make them work in tournaments. Think 10 second flag caps abusing repulsors and grappling hooks, etc. 

At one stage I witnessed a player grapple up to the rocket launcher on Bazaar, grab them, then jump down into the middle and use the grapple to grab the OS. Not only does the grappling hook already give you a massive mobility advantage over other players with 3 charges, but they were able to use that to secure 2 power items and still have a grappling hook charge they could use as a get out of jail free card. Like what in the fuck? This was just a random nobody doing this. Can you even imagine the power this would give a player like Ogre 2 once they've perfected how to abuse these new abilities?

Another issue is how easy it is to pick up equipment without realising it. When you pick up a weapon you have to make a conscious decision to swap a weapon you have. You see your weapon drop. You see the animation of picking up and readying the new weapon. It's an obvious visual indicator. Equipment is completely transparent. Say you come around a corner and assassinate someone and they drop a shield, you can pick it up without even realising and since the HUD is so damn transparent and small you won't even know you picked it up until you try to pick up another piece of equipment. The game needs to make it far more obvious you have picked up a grappling hook by having huge text in the centre of the screen or something... Which brings me to the next point...

Activating the camo and OS is completely stupid. I know 343 has this idea that players are gonna run around the map with an OS in their back pocket for 5 minutes without dying (somehow) before they finally activate it and pull out some crazy play, but in reality if you don't activate that shit instantly off spawn you will die and give it to the enemy. There wasn't a single scenario, even playing against complete morons where I felt like I could hold onto a camo until "the right time". In fact, in many cases I wanted to drop what I had, pick up the camo/OS, activate it and then pick up whatever I just dropped, eg, a grappling hook so then I could become an unstoppable killing machine. (Yeah... totally balanced coming up against a gravity hammer wielding OS guy that has just grappled you from half way across the map...) This process is just so damn clunky, especially when there are other weapons, grenades, whatever, scattered around the same area, which is fairly freakin common when players are fighting over the same item.

Constantly I found myself trying to pickup an OS or camo (which BTW is obviously considered more powerful according to 343 themselves based on where they place these items), but I'd die fumbling around trying to pickup an OS which has a Needler, a Sidekick, Spike Grenades and a Drop Shield right on top of it. Wow, much competitive. This sure is better than just walking over OS and getting OS like every other arena FPS made since the the 90's.

Also, even IF you manage to activate the OS right at the perfect time, lets just say you hide in a corner and activate it when someone walks into a room, that's just not fun to play AGAINST as there's no counter play when someone is literally invincible. At least if someone gets invincibility for 2 seconds on the OS spawn point you can account for this and back off.

It's hard to even put all these thoughts into bullet points because they all feed into each other.

Having to activate the OS = people dying near OS = harder to pick up the damn OS

Grappling hook = huge advantage = easier to aquire even bigger advantage.

Remember how broken the Sword was in Halo 2? Now imagine that person can spiderman around the map and grab an OS from 20 metres away.

I appreciate how cool some of these things are to use, but in the same way it's fun to drive a Warthog around on Standoff and have your buddy get a killamanjaro they're just not balanced for competitive play and I predict they get nerfed or removed entirely from tournaments.

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35 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

I think boyo is gonna sue

There was nothing about sand, he's fine.

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3 hours ago, Soapbar said:

apparently I underestimated the r/Halo btw because I got upvoted heavily for the comment I left on that "AR's are competitively viable" post and people are dunking on the OP so hey.

maybe there is hope.

People aren’t ahKnst spawning with ARS in social but even some casuals know that ar starts in comp don’t belong 

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36 minutes ago, Pyroteq said:

Bazaar, grab them, then jump down into the middle and use the grapple to grab the OS. Not only does the grappling hook already give you a massive mobility advantage over other players with 3 charges, but they were able to use that to secure 2 power items and still have a grappling hook charge they could use as a get out of jail free card. Like what in the fuck? This was just a random nobody doing this. Can you even imagine the power this would give a player like Ogre 2 once they've perfected how to abuse these new abilities?

Ok unless you’re straight ass or you got uncoordinated teammates you’re not getting away doing either.

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