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Halo Infinite Discussion

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4 hours ago, darkstar said:

It’s like talking to a creationist. 

checkmate atheists

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4 hours ago, Hard Way said:

There's nothing random about it. You're just showing, again, that you don't want to learn anything new. You're saying "it needs to be simpler for me", even though it can absolutely be mastered, and is very fun once you have.

If your argument was "this needs to be better communicated to the player", like so many other things in Halo 1, then we'd be on the same page. But it doesn't need to be dumbed down, unless you are in fact too dumb for it. And if that's the case, then just say that.

The beautiful thing about CE's shooting mechanics is that its the only game where I've ever truly felt "flow" when it comes to shooting. The subtle nuances are things you naturally learn as your play more and you begin to subconsciously adjust your aiming to account for them. Shooting begins to feel like an extension of your body and you be in the zone unlike any other game I've played. When your rhythm is working and your shot is on, it's like making sweet, sweet music. 

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4 hours ago, BigShow36 said:

The beautiful thing about CE's shooting mechanics is that its the only game where I've ever truly felt "flow" when it comes to shooting. The subtle nuances are things you naturally learn as your play more and you begin to subconsciously adjust your aiming to account for them. Shooting begins to feel like an extension of your body and you be in the zone unlike any other game I've played. When your rhythm is working and your shot is on, it's like making sweet, sweet music. 

THIS. When you finally find that sweet spot and start hitting shot after shot you feel like an unstoppable machine. I really hope the utility in Infinite has a skill gap as big as CE where the average kill time is over twice that of the perfect kill time. Bring back the spinning death animation and the purrrfect medal and we got us a game.

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Projectile's inconsistent as dicks, and I can't see it ever feeling like an extension of myself when I'm softcore guessing where I first fire half the time, lol. 

3 hours ago, LI Mr X IL said:

I really hope the utility in Infinite has a skill gap as big as CE where the average kill time is over twice that of the perfect kill time. 

Let's briefly talk about the "average" to "perfect" killtime comparison, lol. It's a 0.6 second difference. About as much as the average CoD's in relation to their sandbox, barring maybe MWR which has a much smaller difference because M16. And not even just CoD. Most Halos tend to have that discrepancy, already. The Magnum in Halo 5 has a 1.2 second perfect. It's average is somewhere around 1.7. It's a pretty oddly specific request given every game will have this sorta statline for their perfect and average kills. 

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1 hour ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Projectile's inconsistent as dicks, and I can't see it ever feeling like an extension of myself when I'm softcore guessing where I first fire half the time, lol. 

don't ever describe projectiles like that again :wutface:

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10 hours ago, LI Mr X IL said:

THIS. When you finally find that sweet spot and start hitting shot after shot you feel like an unstoppable machine. I really hope the utility in Infinite has a skill gap as big as CE where the average kill time is over twice that of the perfect kill time. Bring back the spinning death animation and the purrrfect medal and we got us a game.

Stuff like the death animations is something I'd like to see as customization. Not the useless assassination animations that anyone decent has disabled anyways. How cool would it be to make your opponent do the spin after getting the perfect? On the other end, I'd get a chuckle out of it because it looks so cool. That's what I liked about H3's backflip and ragdoll physics. It makes the game more fun and less sweaty because it takes away from the fact you just got REKT and lets you see a cool animation and by the time you're done you alredy respawned. As opposed to H4 and 5 where your screen flashes WHITE and RED and your body HITS the FLOOR with the FORCE of 1000 lbs of PURE METAL. Small things like these really grind my gears.

4 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Projectile's inconsistent as dicks, and I can't see it ever feeling like an extension of myself when I'm softcore guessing where I first fire half the time, lol. 

Let's briefly talk about the "average" to "perfect" killtime comparison, lol. It's a 0.6 second difference. About as much as the average CoD's in relation to their sandbox, barring maybe MWR which has a much smaller difference because M16. And not even just CoD. Most Halos tend to have that discrepancy, already. The Magnum in Halo 5 has a 1.2 second perfect. It's average is somewhere around 1.7. It's a pretty oddly specific request given every game will have this sorta statline for their perfect and average kills. 

You also have to look at the ratio though, not the relative difference. Another way to look at this is "how likely is it that I win a 1v2 if I get the drop on them?". In CE (and even more so in CoD, but for the wrong reasons) you have a decent chance of eliminating them before they can react and if you have a decent strafe you make their kill times go up significantly because every single shot you miss makes the kill time go up by 50%.

In H5 you have to empty half your clip into a guy which takes twice the time as in CE, plus everyone instinctively thrusts as soon as they're getting shot, yawn. Chances of winning a that 1v2? Next to zero, it's probably better to just go for the spartan charge lmao.

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23 hours ago, Hard Way said:

There's nothing random about it. You're just showing, again, that you don't want to learn anything new. You're saying "it needs to be simpler for me", even though it can absolutely be mastered, and is very fun once you have.

If your argument was "this needs to be better communicated to the player", like so many other things in Halo 1, then we'd be on the same page. But it doesn't need to be dumbed down, unless you are in fact too dumb for it. And if that's the case, then just say that.

Perhaps I’m thinking too deep about it. According to you this isn’t like the Xbox CE, because I know my aim isn’t off by any means. I can also imagine agame that’s never been on xbl wouldn’t work so great online especially at ping around 90.  

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18 hours ago, BigShow36 said:

The beautiful thing about CE's shooting mechanics is that its the only game where I've ever truly felt "flow" when it comes to shooting. The subtle nuances are things you naturally learn as your play more and you begin to subconsciously adjust your aiming to account for them. Shooting begins to feel like an extension of your body and you be in the zone unlike any other game I've played. When your rhythm is working and your shot is on, it's like making sweet, sweet music. 

You might honestly enjoy Gears of War then. Between the active reloads, the cadence of the Gnasher's RoF, and the movement, playing that game well feels very rhythmic, moreso than any game I've ever played.

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20 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Perhaps I’m thinking too deep about it. According to you this isn’t like the Xbox CE, because I know my aim isn’t off by any means. I can also imagine agame that’s never been on xbl wouldn’t work so great online especially at ping around 90.  

I'm not gonna defend H1 on MCC's hit reg, because it bothers me every time I play it.  However, I've seen SO MANY people over the years swear up and down they know how to shoot their pistol, and then they were wrong.  So now I just don't believe most people until I watch them play.  If you record some instances where you feel like you should have gotten the kill but didn't, I would take a look at them. I wouldn't be a snarky dick or anything. Just wanna see how you're shooting and see if I can help you have more fun with the game. You can PM me clips if you want.

Also, remember that when you grab OS when you don't have a shield, your shield won't flare when you get shot. It looks a lot like people eating shots. So make sure you know what's going on with OS before you blame hit reg. I've had a lot of local friends do that, only to feel really dumb once they learn they just weren't keeping track of powerups worth a shit.

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27 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I'm not gonna defend H1 on MCC's hit reg, because it bothers me every time I play it.  However, I've seen SO MANY people over the years swear up and down they know how to shoot their pistol, and then they were wrong.  So now I just don't believe most people until I watch them play.  If you record some instances where you feel like you should have gotten the kill but didn't, I would take a look at them. I wouldn't be a snarky dick or anything. Just wanna see how you're shooting and see if I can help you have more fun with the game. You can PM me clips if you want.

Also, remember that when you grab OS when you don't have a shield, your shield won't flare when you get shot. It looks a lot like people eating shots. So make sure you know what's going on with OS before you blame hit reg. I've had a lot of local friends do that, only to feel really dumb once they learn they just weren't keeping track of powerups worth a shit.

Oh I know it doesn’t. I know a bit about CE in that regard and power up timing. 

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10 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Projectile's inconsistent as dicks, and I can't see it ever feeling like an extension of myself when I'm softcore guessing where I first fire half the time, lol. 

Let's briefly talk about the "average" to "perfect" killtime comparison, lol. It's a 0.6 second difference. About as much as the average CoD's in relation to their sandbox, barring maybe MWR which has a much smaller difference because M16. And not even just CoD. Most Halos tend to have that discrepancy, already. The Magnum in Halo 5 has a 1.2 second perfect. It's average is somewhere around 1.7. It's a pretty oddly specific request given every game will have this sorta statline for their perfect and average kills. 

You have to look at in relative times not absolute times. Sure it’s only a 0.6 second difference but 0.6 seconds is 100% quicker that 1.2 seconds where as 1.2 seconds is only 40% quicker than 1.7 seconds. I guess a better way to measure the skill gap would be to measure it in the amount of shots it takes to kill and not the time. So in terms of how many shots it takes to kill I’d like for people on average to have to fire twice as many shots to get a kill than is actually required.

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17 hours ago, LI Mr X IL said:

THIS. When you finally find that sweet spot and start hitting shot after shot you feel like an unstoppable machine. I really hope the utility in Infinite has a skill gap as big as CE where the average kill time is over twice that of the perfect kill time. Bring back the spinning death animation and the purrrfect medal and we got us a game.

I really wish they'd bring back the spinning animation. So satisfying.

They probably stopped doing the spinning animation because every utility kill was a headshot after Halo 1. 

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9 hours ago, FeaR said:

don't ever describe projectiles like that again :wutface:

Okay, mom. Sorry. 

56 minutes ago, LI Mr X IL said:

You have to look at in relative times not absolute times. Sure it’s only a 0.6 second difference but 0.6 seconds is 100% quicker that 1.2 seconds where as 1.2 seconds is only 40% quicker than 1.7 seconds. I guess a better way to measure the skill gap would be to measure it in the amount of shots it takes to kill and not the time. So in terms of how many shots it takes to kill I’d like for people on average to have to fire twice as many shots to get a kill than is actually required.

You could just say you want a quicker killing weapon, was my main point, lol. Because on average, most players are taking twice as many shots to kill their target.

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24 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Okay, mom. Sorry. 

You could just say you want a quicker killing weapon, was my main point, lol. Because on average, most players are taking twice as many shots to kill their target.

No lol. The h2/3/4 utility is a 4.5 shot on average on lan. It is 100% not obvious. Making the h3 br the same speed as the ce pistol is not the same as having the ce pistol, burst aside. The average ttk would be .75 for that wep, but 1.5 for the ce pistol. 

 

And on another note. The br RoF going from .5 to .4-.3 no other changes, would still be better. 

 

The h5 pistol is the best starting wep since ce. Tho like someone said, the clip size is way too small and it should still kill faster. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Riddler said:

No lol. The h2/3/4 utility is a 4.5 shot on average on lan. It is 100% not obvious. Making the h3 br the same speed as the ce pistol is not the same as having the ce pistol, burst aside. The average ttk would be .75 for that wep, but 1.5 for the ce pistol. 

Lowkey don't even know how this is relevant.

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2 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Lowkey don't even know how this is relevant.

I dont see how u dont see its relevant. 

 

U said we can just say quicker kill times instead of quick kill times and with the same avg ttk. I explained that that simplication doesnt work

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1 minute ago, Riddler said:

I dont see how u dont see its relevant. 

We're at an IMPASSE. 

1 minute ago, Larry Sizemore said:

People who say "lowkey" should be banned from the internet.

Highkey, I entirely agree.

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2 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

We're at an IMPASSE. 

Highkey, I entirely agree.

 

2 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

We're at an IMPASSE. 

Highkey, I entirely agree.

I edited now so maybe

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5 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

People who say "lowkey" should be banned from the internet.

tenor.gif

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2 minutes ago, Riddler said:

I edited now so maybe

Still isn't clicking. I'm not talking about weapon speed, just sheer killtime. You'd be better just saying you want weapons to kill fast like CE. Because the ratio to average and perfect killtimes will be borderline identical whichever way you swing, regardless of weapon speed inherently.

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12 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Projectile's inconsistent as dicks, and I can't see it ever feeling like an extension of myself when I'm softcore guessing where I first fire half the time, lol. 

Let's briefly talk about the "average" to "perfect" killtime comparison, lol. It's a 0.6 second difference. About as much as the average CoD's in relation to their sandbox, barring maybe MWR which has a much smaller difference because M16. And not even just CoD. Most Halos tend to have that discrepancy, already. The Magnum in Halo 5 has a 1.2 second perfect. It's average is somewhere around 1.7. It's a pretty oddly specific request given every game will have this sorta statline for their perfect and average kills. 

The ratio of average to perfect kill-times has very little to do with weapon speed outside of the extreme sides of the spectrum (1 shot kill and 100 shot kill); it has everything to do with how difficult the weapon is to use. What CE players want is not the discrepancy of perfect/average to be the same as it was in CE, we want a weapon that slays quickly but is difficult to use well. No other Halo game has had that. I don't care what the ratio is, because that doesn't tell the real story. I could have a weapon that takes 10 seconds for a perfect kill and 10.6 seconds for an average kill; that doesn't mean its going to be a good utility weapon. 

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16 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Still isn't clicking. I'm not talking about weapon speed, just sheer killtime. You'd be better just saying you want weapons to kill fast like CE. Because the ratio to average and perfect killtimes will be borderline identical whichever way you swing, regardless of weapon speed inherently.

No its not tho. Youre entirely wrong.

The ratio of perfect to average kill is 0.6:1.5 in CE. 3 perfect, 6 avg  

The ratio of perfect kills in h2/3/4 is 1.5:1.75. 4 perfect, 4.5 average. 

If you made the weps in those games the same speed as the ce pistol the ratio would be 0.6:0.75. 3 perfect, 3.5 avg. 

quicker kill times isnt the sole thing that determines average kill times. The avg and perfect ttk can be 1:1 or 1:5 no matter the perfect ttk.  

Idc for a 1:1 ce pistol stats. A .9 perfect and a 1.5 avg is still good. A .9 perfect 2.0 avg is probably bad. Means most of the time people skirt away, unless the game is designed to let you get those 2.0s often. Tho .6 is good because it lets you kill people who peak corners if ur perfect, but i dont want a .6:.75 ratio

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2 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

The ratio of average to perfect kill-times has very little to do with weapon speed outside of the extreme sides of the spectrum (1 shot kill and 100 shot kill); it has everything to do with how difficult the weapon is to use. What CE players want is not the discrepancy of perfect/average to be the same as it was in CE, we want a weapon that slays quickly but is difficult to use well. No other Halo game has had that. I don't care what the ratio is, because that doesn't tell the real story. I could have a weapon that takes 10 seconds for a perfect kill and 10.6 seconds for an average kill; that doesn't mean its going to be a good utility weapon. 

I know it has little to fuck all to do with it. Hence why I'm saying, have a quick, difficult weapon. And not arguing for a weapon based around a ratio. 

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Alright where are we pulling these numbers from lmao. Where is the data showing the "average ttk" in every game? And how different are those numbers in actual high level matches compared to overall? You can't just say numbers and go from there. 

Ok now the REAL point. Projectiles in pretty much every game have always been inconsistent ESPECIALLY at range. Go play Apex and get into a medium distance wingman battle. It's notorious for being an extremely random engagement even among top players. Because when people are strafing AND you have to lead it becomes a guessing game. Always has been always will be. Sure it increases avg ttk but it does so by basically randomozing long range encounters. I know it's "consistent" in the sense that the bullets still go straight (even tho CE has spread) but that doesn't make the engagements consistent. If you get 2 players one good one average and have them 1v1 at long range only and then have them octagon the results would drastically different. It's not consistent at all. 

As far as ttk goes I agree guns should kill a LITTLE faster. Not .6 seconds. In an online game with lag comp and other factors. Perfect ttk isn't the end all be all and neither is average ttk. Things like teamshot and peek shooting and map design affect this stuff way more than people give credit. Another huge reason for not having the ttk be too fast is because halo is a console shooter. Where people can't turn worth a shit or challenge multiple angles quickly. Dying before you can even move your stick is something most people don't really enjoy. 

Lastly people mentioning the 100% increases in average to perfect ttk need to understand the percentage means nothing. If I have a .1 perfect kill time and a .2 average that's the same ratio. Does that make it just as good? There are so many aspects of 4v4 halo that would get really wonky if we started killing that fast again. Not to mention that 4v4 CE is was anyway so it's already not looking too promising. 

Overall I do agree with having a weapon with a higher skill gap but projectile isn't some magic or perfect solution. Inconsistent long range engagements are not something i want. 

 

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