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On 3/13/2019 at 1:37 AM, AlphaBenson said:

You know, I wouldn't mind the absence of loud footsteps if only because it'd mean that I wouldn't have to put on headphones in order to play as efficiently as possible. I'd much rather just listen to music or a podcast. 

But I guess you'd still have to if you wanted to communicate with team mates.

Mofo, ain’t no one even using game chat these days. If you want to play effectively you don’t listen to music. Stay out of ranked.

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Everyone is talking shit about Epitaph because of the shield doors which I of course agree with, but what did you guys think of the version without shield doors? Epilogue I think it was called.

I wanted to love the map because it's so aesthetically pleasing but it still feels rather awkward to play on. Felt it was an ok enough FFA map, don't think I ever played it in any other context

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1 hour ago, ARUKET said:

Everyone is talking shit about Epitaph because of the shield doors which I of course agree with, but what did you guys think of the version without shield doors? Epilogue I think it was called.

I wanted to love the map because it's so aesthetically pleasing but it still feels rather awkward to play on. Felt it was an ok enough FFA map, don't think I ever played it in any other context

It's still among the worst maps in the franchise. For as long as H3's killtimes are, the amount of 90 degree corners and line of sight blockers make it almost impossible to get a rifle kill. I bet if you could look at stats for that map, it would have one of the lowest utility weapon kill percentages of any map ever. It was all snipers, rockets, shotguns, hammers, and stickies, because you needed to kill someone instantly or they'd get around a thousand corners.

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24 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

It's still among the worst maps in the franchise. For as long as H3's killtimes are, the amount of 90 degree corners and line of sight blockers make it almost impossible to get a rifle kill. I bet if you could look at stats for that map, it would have one of the lowest utility weapon kill percentages of any map ever. It was all snipers, rockets, shotguns, hammers, and stickies, because you needed to kill someone instantly or they'd get around a thousand corners.

Do you think that necessarily makes it a bad map? I think it's interesting that by design it forces you to play differently than most other maps, even if that style of gameplay is not to your liking.

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37 minutes ago, ARUKET said:

Do you think that necessarily makes it a bad map? I think it's interesting that by design it forces you to play differently than most other maps, even if that style of gameplay is not to your liking.

It makes the map stale, if you don't have a Shotgun/Sniper/Rockets there's almost no way to get a kill except sneaking up on someone. Why are AR/SMG starts not liked? Because you can't get kills off spawn. This map gives similar feelings.

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47 minutes ago, ARUKET said:

Do you think that necessarily makes it a bad map? I think it's interesting that by design it forces you to play differently than most other maps, even if that style of gameplay is not to your liking.

I think no matter what the developer intention is, it is simply aggravating to be unable to secure kills. Pretty much the same reason people dislike thrusters in Halo 5, especially when they're combined with the very fast shield regen rate.

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I don't wanna die on this hill because I really don't care for Epitaph in particular but I just think it's interesting when developers will make a map that encourages/forces a style of gameplay that is different than what is offered on another map. I wouldn't want every single map to play similarly to Sanctuary or Midship just because those are the most well suited type of maps for Halo. Even if it's a swing and a miss, I prefer that they at least take a swing. At worst, you don't have to play on it, but in this instance those who do like being forced into chaos with melees and stickies have a map to play on. It's not the same as thruster because a base trait is going to be with you everywhere.

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I mean longest would pretty much blow if it was in hall 3. Epilogue might be pretty good in CE though.

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Epitaph is fine for social, go explore and have different things I guess, but competitive it just sucks.

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3 hours ago, ARUKET said:

Do you think that necessarily makes it a bad map? I think it's interesting that by design it forces you to play differently than most other maps, even if that style of gameplay is not to your liking.

 

2 hours ago, ARUKET said:

I don't wanna die on this hill because I really don't care for Epitaph in particular but I just think it's interesting when developers will make a map that encourages/forces a style of gameplay that is different than what is offered on another map. I wouldn't want every single map to play similarly to Sanctuary or Midship just because those are the most well suited type of maps for Halo. Even if it's a swing and a miss, I prefer that they at least take a swing. At worst, you don't have to play on it, but in this instance those who do like being forced into chaos with melees and stickies have a map to play on. It's not the same as thruster because a base trait is going to be with you everywhere.

There's nothing wrong with a map that forces a shift in player psychology - ultimately that's the end goal.


There is something wrong if the shift to [whatever] is ultimately indicative of poor game design.  Guardian is not suddenly a good map because "it makes you hold out in a tower and play very passive, no other H3 map does that".  Like, sure.  Good job. It's still a shitty thing to want to enforce. Literally one of the most common interactions you'll hear if you ever choose to enter the game industry goes something like

 

Person: Hey, such-and-such is really strong.

Designer: Yeah that was the design goal.

Person: No yeah I get that but it's too strong.

Designer: Yeah its really that power fantasy of just blah blah

 

Achieving a goal is meaningless if it wasn't a good thing to strive for in the first place.  Same goes for Epitaph imo.

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4 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

 

There's nothing wrong with a map that forces a shift in player psychology - ultimately that's the end goal.


There is something wrong if the shift to [whatever] is ultimately indicative of poor game design.  Guardian is not suddenly a good map because "it makes you hold out in a tower and play very passive, no other H3 map does that".  Like, sure.  Good job. It's still a shitty thing to want to enforce. Literally one of the most common interactions you'll hear if you ever choose to enter the game industry goes something like

 

Person: Hey, such-and-such is really strong.

Designer: Yeah that was the design goal.

Person: No yeah I get that but it's too strong.

Designer: Yeah its really that power fantasy of just blah blah

 

Achieving a goal is meaningless if it wasn't a good thing to strive for in the first place.  Same goes for Epitaph imo.

To be fair, a map like guardian works best with obj. Some maps just play terribly for slayer.

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High ground was pretty terrible for slayer but fun with assym game types. 

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12 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

High ground was pretty terrible for slayer but fun with assym game types. 

High ground had many routes where you could flank the enemy if they controlled the station though. It honestly was a fun map from a social perspective.

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15 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

High ground was pretty terrible for slayer but fun with assym game types. 

The day that my Halo 3 ODST MP disk got scratched in a way that made it unable to load High Ground and Isolation was a god send for my TS 50 journey. I actually got FRs because I could force the game to not choose either one.

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16 minutes ago, RC_5213 said:

The day that my Halo 3 ODST MP disk got scratched in a way that made it unable to load High Ground and Isolation was a god send for my TS 50 journey. I actually got FRs because I could force the game to not choose either one.

I had this as well, but my maps were snowbound and Highground, and I'd just not put in my ODST disk making it so I could only get the good maps like - Pit, Narrows, Construct, Guardian 

Happy Days

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1 hour ago, RC_5213 said:

The day that my Halo 3 ODST MP disk got scratched in a way that made it unable to load High Ground and Isolation was a god send for my TS 50 journey. I actually got FRs because I could force the game to not choose either one.

Haha my friend had one that wouldn't load Sandtrap, became my go to guy for BTB. 

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21 hours ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

To be fair, a map like guardian works best with obj. Some maps just play terribly for slayer.

With proper weapon placement and powerups (along with static timers), it doesn't have to play terribly for slayer. 

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4 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

With proper weapon placement and powerups (along with static timers), it doesn't have to play terribly for slayer. 

Proper weapon and power up placement? Dude guardians design couldn’t have power ups without giving one spawning team an advantage. Also in h3 theOS was weaker than its CE&2 counter parts. CEs map design is also built around 2s in mind(4s plays like shit) and slayer only as well. 

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13 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Proper weapon and power up placement? Dude guardians design couldn’t have power ups without giving one spawning team an advantage. Also in h3 theOS was weaker than its CE&2 counter parts. CEs map design is also built around 2s in mind(4s plays like shit) and slayer only as well. 

I was referring to the map design itself. Halo 3 is shit-tier, so if you actually wanted the game to play well then yes, you would need some gameplay adjustments. 

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9 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

I was referring to the map design itself. Halo 3 is shit-tier, so if you actually wanted the game to play well then yes, you would need some gameplay adjustments. 

Guardian doesn’t need changing. It plays fine for its worth. Some maps are meant for specific modes, slayer being bad on it(even then it’s not that bad) isn’t a huge deal if it plays great on obj(koth and oddball).

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21 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Guardian doesn’t need changing. It plays fine for its worth. Some maps are meant for specific modes, slayer being bad on it(even then it’s not that bad) isn’t a huge deal if it plays great on obj(koth and oddball).

But you do realize you can have different spawns, weapon placements and power-up placements for different modes, right? 

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On 3/14/2019 at 12:58 PM, ARUKET said:

Do you think that necessarily makes it a bad map? I think it's interesting that by design it forces you to play differently than most other maps, even if that style of gameplay is not to your liking.

I guess objectively, no. But I have a hard time empathizing with anyone that enjoys it. The whole map feels like it exists to breed frustration.

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5 hours ago, Ethereal Nights said:

Lol. 4v4 CE is better than Guardian is as a map.

As opinionated as that statement is most would agree with mine(outside these forums)

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1 hour ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

As opinionated as that statement is most would agree with mine(outside these forums)

And yet you're still wrong. Funny how that works.

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