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I don't like the idea of motion tracker as a powerup.

I think I pitched this earlier in the thread, but what about a powerup that goes in a similar direction - all enemy players have a waypoint placed over their head, visible only to the powerup holder. The waypoint goes away when that player is killed (betrayal or suicide doesn't get rid of it). Instead of the powerup being time-based (which I think is lazy and should be avoided if possible), it expires naturally when either the powerup holder dies or all the targets die.

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On 2/27/2019 at 6:18 PM, MultiLockOn said:

Don't hold your breath.

show off ur new game already 

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4 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

I don't like the idea of motion tracker as a powerup.

I think I pitched this earlier in the thread, but what about a powerup that goes in a similar direction - all enemy players have a waypoint placed over their head, visible only to the powerup holder. The waypoint goes away when that player is killed (betrayal or suicide doesn't get rid of it). Instead of the powerup being time-based (which I think is lazy and should be avoided if possible), it expires naturally when either the powerup holder dies or all the targets die.

So, all semblance of positioning ceases to matter even if this person never actually sees you, just because they got the powerup. This is basically a single pulse of Promethean vision, which is all you need for a collapse at any competent level where people call out. Only one person needs to know the enemy's position for everyone to. Even for one collapse, it just feels cheesy as fuck.

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Yeah I can’t say I dig any kind of wallhack, even as a powerup. That would make late-game TS really, really bad.

Radar as a powerup could work, but it’s hard to get excited about it. I don’t think it’d be very fun. Radar inherently benefits the passive player, so it just seems odd to earn a powerup so that you can camp better.

I just don’t like any kind of buff that gives away player locations in FPS’s. They seem cheesy to me and don’t make the game more fun.

Someone posted the idea of a powerup that doubles the score contribution of the holder during its duration. That seems fun to me. Turn the character a different color (white for instance) so you know what he can do, and let the new strategies develop. I think it’d be cool to have one guy on your team be twice as important for 45-60 seconds. Give him the snipe/rockets in TS. Protect him like crazy in KotH and Ball. I think it’d be cool to gamble setting up for this powerup away from obj, in the hopes of getting a huge chunk of time with your VIP later.

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This should not be a debate. Radar is dumb. Giving it to only a few people and not others in a match is even dumber. Youve just put UAV from cod 4 into the game.

 

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On 3/4/2019 at 3:41 AM, TheIcePrincess said:

Yeah,

...

Writing is hard, lol.

I don't even like Halo 4 that much but you made some great points here

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5 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

This should not be a debate. Radar is dumb. Giving it to only a few people and not others in a match is even dumber. Youve just put UAV from cod 4 into the game.

Unfortunately we've had radar in competitive Halo for 3 years now.. since taking it completely out isn't an option I'm trying to think of ways to minimize it as much as possible. 

Compromise!

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Just now, Knighty Knight said:

Unfortunately we've had radar in competitive Halo for 3 years now.. since taking it completely out isn't an option I'm trying to think of ways to minimize it as much as possible. 

Compromise!

But the radar in H5 wasn't really an issue lol. 

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3 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Ayyyyyy.

Don't worry, I still think you suck.

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18 hours ago, Killmachine said:

show off ur new game already 

Can’t. It’s too good to show off. 

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5 hours ago, Knighty Knight said:

Compromise!

AFllmOT.gif

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On 3/4/2019 at 3:41 AM, TheIcePrincess said:

Yeah, it doesn't rely on external media at all. The media can accent it, but I didn't end up reading Cryptum until early 2014, and still entirely got Halo 4 as a game. Because it's self-contained and explains everything that's relevant just fine. You know the main goal of the protagonist, the antagonist, who the antagonist is, who they're affiliated with, and what they can do, and what the protagonist is affiliated with, and what they can do. As a story explaining its beats, it's literally fine. If not great because there is actual inference that goes on, over just expositioning shit out. Rant time, because I do hate this point. Nothing personal.

A big problem with Halo 4 is that the Didact's motivations are wrapped in a 5 minute long cutscene that literally just "expositions" the entire pre-firing universe. Anyone who has purely been playing the games has no idea humanity even existed before the firing, outside of some subtle references in the games and terminals, which makes the cutscene confusing for newcomers and casual players. The sad thing is I think a slight change in dialogue could have fixed that, but as you'll notice, dialogue is the underlying theme of my criticisms.

 

On 3/4/2019 at 3:41 AM, TheIcePrincess said:

 

Towards Chief, it is immense character development. But it's only immense because CE-3 had you playing a caricature. Not a character. In reality, the character development he got was normal, and very well handled given some of it, like body language in "Shutdown", was subtle, and won't be picked up by everyone. Boiling it down to simple points isn't really proper form. The latter two points, being unlikeable, or having lame motivations doesn't really act as good criticism. You can feel they're lame, but that doesn't explain why past feeling a certain way. I don't think we'll get too far there, though.

Del Rio was a character who acted entirely in the right for his time in Halo 4. Him snapping at someone who breaks protocol, while arguably out of line socially, was still understandable given Chief did defy a commanding officer with a deadly outcome being made possible as we understand rampant AI. When you're already being attacked by an unknown enemy and you have someone on your side potentially screwing things up, that IS an issue worth being outright angry about. This also falls into dramatic irony, as Chief, and we by proxy, the player, have seen things he hasn't, and may not believe given the extent of the Forerunner's powers. You're not necessarily supposed to like him, but as a character he also gave Chief agency, given the latter normally just follows orders. Him defying a high commanding officer to simply keep his friend around in spite of the risks is more than enough to say he had a proper role. Almost like an inverse of Lord Hood. Except Del Rio did something.

On not feeling like Halo, I disagree. It's still nebulous, and narratively, I still feel Halo 4 handled being a sequel better than some prior Halos. Dawn had clear references to past events, the fact the duo was out of the picture for so long, the Covenant's finicky return to attacking humans, the like. There are clear seeds planted letting the player know the game's a sequel, without coming off as pandering so you can make a connection that bridges two entries. It also didn't need to be entirely connected to the past, given its subject matter which was borderline irrelevant to the plots of the past three titles.

Not to mention, the point of "the Covenant being shoved aside" kinda doesn't make sense when you consider the narrative of the games. What about how the Prophets literally got the shaft of a lifetime in Halo 3? In Halo 2, we see them a lot. They play a large role in the plot, for good reason, and are a major role in why we have the Chief, Arbiter, and Tartarus acting as they do. And that's not counting the actual characterization as sly leaders. They had a good, large role, because the Covenant was the centerpiece of the trilogy, and acted as good antagonists. Halo 3 had Truth relegated to a Crow's Nest cutscene and the next time you see him is when you kill him in "The Covenant". He kills Miranda, fails to activate the Halos, and that's it. There's nothing adding to his character, or his motivation as one of the three leaders who started this war. Which absolutely sucks given they're just about to end it. It reminds me of Megatron in Transformers 2 to 3. Except in 3 he was actually "replaced" by a legitimate antagonist over him just being spoken of and never seen until his death sequence. And he still DID something notable. Truth didn't. Which is nuts. THAT is being pushed aside in a truly negative way

But it makes sense that the Covenant gets pushed aside in Halo 4. They're not a massive empire anymore. They exist in fragmented remnants, but they're not the driving force of the plot, who they're led by isn't our concern, getting home is. Individuals in the Covenant remnants may get in the Chief's way but no one is actively following him, he just runs into them by circumstance based on a mutual interest. How they even came across the Dawn was circumstance. I'd say that feels more like Halo because it not only actually feels like a sequel where the last game's ending had tangible consequences on this once powerful united set of species, but also has said species being just as interested as we are in Requiem's secrets with a subtle build up as to why they were interested, and why we should be horrified. And we get an evolution on the cast over it just being there to fill a faction space in the same way it always does.

This is where I feel like I get lost with a lot of people that liked Halo 4's campaign. At a high level, Halo 4 has a very interesting plot. Chief and Cortana get stranded on an unknown Forerunner world, they face a mysterious threat, they meet up with a single human ship, remnant Covenant threats, blah blah blah; I have a few specific criticisms (the Genesong thing is soooooo unnecessary), but its a sufficiently Halo plot, whatever that means. The problem comes in the execution and claims about its execution.

 

For one, my strongest criticism is the dialogue. Its terrible across the board. Nothing about it is believable or convincing. It feels like it was dubbed from a different language.  There's nothing inventive, at all, about Cortana's rampancy. There's so many interesting instances of "ai goes bad" in all of fiction, and they decided to go with having Jen Taylor scream her lines in every other cutscene. I could not even imagine a less creative way of demonstrating rampancy.  The performance poisons everything else. Chief is apparently at least partially motivated by Cortana's random existential statements and yelling, and considering its a major aspect of his "development", it does a number on my ability to suspend my disbelief.

 

Everything Del Rio says is absolutely hilarious. I couldn't take him seriously to save my life. He's not "Del Rio", he's "antagonizing strict commanding officer" from every piece of fiction that even slightly borrows from that trope. Lasky and every other human character basically don't contribute to the plot or Chief's character development.

 

Within just the context of Halo 4, the Didact is an OK villain. His motivations aren't particularly interesting and basically boil down to being...xenophobic and/or crazy(?) because of the pre-firing wars; he's irrational. There's nothing really wrong with that, but in comparison to the Covenant or the Gravemind, whose motivations have at least some layers and complications, the way he's presented in Halo 4 just isn't that interesting.

 

On 3/4/2019 at 3:41 AM, TheIcePrincess said:

 

In addition, why is it bad the game took its material seriously. I would rather have that then something that won't, because it keeps me engaged when something sees its own conflicts and issues as a legitimate concern that hangs over the plot like a shadow, as it should. I don't want bathos, and as a game, Halo 4 didn't need it in a way Halo 2 would with Johnson. 

Its bad that it takes it material seriously if its not so serious aspects were stronger. Bathos and dumb one-liners were frankly the original's greatest strength in terms of writing, outside of just having a generally interesting universe and plot. Abandoning them would require strong dialogue and characters to take its place, and I don't think that happened. I see no reason to praise an attempt at a serious story if it wasn't a good attempt.

 

On 3/4/2019 at 3:41 AM, TheIcePrincess said:

Halo 4 filled its seriousness in with quieter moments that allow you to relax.

*Cortana begins dubstep screaming*

On 3/4/2019 at 3:41 AM, TheIcePrincess said:

Most of how it slowed its seriousness was accomplished in gameplay, which was ten times better than letting its actual plot suffer.

Halo 4 definitely had this, and I appreciate Halo 4 for what it is. But I think its reported depth and quality is massively overblown.

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On 3/6/2019 at 6:33 AM, TheIcePrincess said:

So, all semblance of positioning ceases to matter even if this person never actually sees you, just because they got the powerup. This is basically a single pulse of Promethean vision, which is all you need for a collapse at any competent level where people call out. Only one person needs to know the enemy's position for everyone to. Even for one collapse, it just feels cheesy as fuck.

If they didn't secure the powerup, then clearly their positioning wasn't good enough, and now they get to live with the consequences.

On 3/6/2019 at 8:53 AM, Hard Way said:

Yeah I can’t say I dig any kind of wallhack, even as a powerup. That would make late-game TS really, really bad.

That's the nice thing about powerups as opposed to armor/spartan abilities - if they're truly a bad fit for a certain gametype, you don't have to use it in that gametype.

Quote

Someone posted the idea of a powerup that doubles the score contribution of the holder during its duration. That seems fun to me. Turn the character a different color (white for instance) so you know what he can do, and let the new strategies develop. I think it’d be cool to have one guy on your team be twice as important for 45-60 seconds. Give him the snipe/rockets in TS. Protect him like crazy in KotH and Ball. I think it’d be cool to gamble setting up for this powerup away from obj, in the hopes of getting a huge chunk of time with your VIP later.

Yeah that was me. Could really help move things along in KOTH and ball. Mainly I like that it would facilitate comeback opportunities without anyone feeling cheated, like in Regicide or something. Blue team got the 2x powerup and used it to come all the way back on red team? Red team has only themselves to blame for losing the powerup.

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People can praise Halo4 for bringing life to the chief, having more lore for the forerunners and all that all they want, in the end, it was the only Halo game I had to push myself to finish and it took me 6 years and an MCC achievement to play it again.

Fighting robot bugs not only looked stupid, it played shit as well.

The Didact, to me, was a boring antagonist. I just don't like those cheesy "evil super villain" stories. It didn't help that he looked like someone bleached an Oblivion Daedra that was equipped with jedi powers...

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I don't think anyone is defending the H4 campaign from a gameplay perspective, right? The shitty weapon sandbox, the abilities and the Prometheans being zero fun to fight against will do that. Some of the level design was decent though.

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2 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

 

Yeah that was me. Could really help move things along in KOTH and ball. Mainly I like that it would facilitate comeback opportunities without anyone feeling cheated, like in Regicide or something. Blue team got the 2x powerup and used it to come all the way back on red team? Red team has only themselves to blame for losing the powerup.

The elimination of the late game mathematical impossibility in those modes makes it worth the addition alone.

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The modified motion sensor is honestly one of the better things 343 has come up with, and I feel it appeals to both casual and comp players. It's a middle ground (an actual one mind you) that I wouldn't mind returning to Halo Infinite as the new default.

If Infinite is a classically designed Halo without any of the mobility bullshit, I would just retune it to detect gunfire, grenade throws and maybe jumping. Possibly add in a way for the sensor to be tricked by utilizing sound in some way. Suppressed versions of weapons could allow them more gameplay utility. 

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3 minutes ago, The Tyco said:

The modified motion sensor is honestly one of the better things 343 has come up with, and I feel it appeals to both casual and comp players. It's a middle ground (an actual one mind you) that I wouldn't mind returning to Halo Infinite as the new default.

If Infinite is a classically designed Halo without any of the mobility bullshit, I would just retune it to detect gunfire, grenade throws and maybe jumping. Possibly add in a way for the sensor to be tricked by utilizing sound in some way. Suppressed versions of weapons could allow them more gameplay utility. 

While the compromise made sense in light of the arguments during H5 none of the pro radar arguments have anything relevant to do with classic styled competitive play. Sure it would be better than a default radar in default settings though

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13 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

While the compromise made sense in light of the arguments during H5 none of the pro radar arguments have anything relevant to do with classic styled competitive play. Sure it would be better than a default radar in default settings though

This. If the gameplay isn't a crack-addled circus show like H5, then we won't need radar in ranked at all. However, a tweak to radar in social would be welcome.

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Radar should be like CSGO or BO4 where people show up if they shoot their guns or get spotted by a teammate. 

At the very least the notion tracker should not update instantly (a sweep every 4s maybe) and it shouldn't show height, that was such an unnecessary buff. 

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Going back to a non-level detecing Radar would be a step in the right direction. While I think a CS-style Mini-map would be ideal, the Trilogy Radar seems like a more realistic change.

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13 hours ago, Basu said:

Radar should be like CSGO or BO4 where people show up if they shoot their guns or get spotted by a teammate. 

At the very least the notion tracker should not update instantly (a sweep every 4s maybe) and it shouldn't show height, that was such an unnecessary buff. 

I thought the height buff was nice. It’s nice knowing if someone’s bottom or above me. 

Yeah if they’re shooting you should be able to see them on the radar. Heck’s if they keep the H5’s gameplay then the new motion tracker should just be the default.

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Height buff sucked. Radar was already way too much free information. They took a mechanic that took almost no skill to use, and just got rid of that last little scrap.

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