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Halo Infinite Discussion

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5 hours ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

It’s fair to note I bet most of you don’t know a quality story and complex character development if it hit you in the face. You’re the people who say Harry Potter was a bad story when most will agree that you’re wrong.

I wouldn't put it that way, but lol.

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1 hour ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I wouldn't put it that way, but lol.

Well you do ice but I’m just saying. H4s story is about chief becoming human. Not some weapon he’s always been. 

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I will not accept this H4 campaign slander. Good story and the level design is consistently solid. It's never quite top tier the way some levels stood out in previous games, but its consistent across the board in terms of quality. Slander that campaign again and we're gonna exchange words outside. I will fight you. :ace:

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I still don't get the praise.  It still strikes me as people just trying to find anything positive to say about the game.

The story was poorly written and very detached from what Halo is known for, little of the experience actually felt like a Halo game.  The enemies had stupid AI and most of the challenge came from them being spongey and equipped with power weapons.  They weren't remotely satisfying to kill, bullets just pinging off them until they softly disintegrate.  The mission layouts were mostly linear and boring.

I'll replay Ce and H2 plenty of times.  I never want to touch The 4 again.

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8 hours ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Well you do ice but I’m just saying. H4s story is about chief becoming human. Not some weapon he’s always been. 

I know. It's why I like it. Among other things.

1 hour ago, Ramirez77 said:

I still don't get the praise.  It still strikes me as people just trying to find anything positive to say about the game.

The story was poorly written and very detached from what Halo is known for, little of the experience actually felt like a Halo game.  The enemies had stupid AI and most of the challenge came from them being spongey and equipped with power weapons.  They weren't remotely satisfying to kill, bullets just pinging off them until they softly disintegrate.  The mission layouts were mostly linear and boring.

I'll replay Ce and H2 plenty of times.  I never want to touch The 4 again.

Gameplay aside, as I asked the other person, do you have examples about it being poorly written. Or what somehow made it not feel like a "Halo" game, which I argue is pretty loose and nebulous.

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Any campaign with tons of kill barriers is a shit campaign. And for that, h4 is a shit campaign

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2 hours ago, Ramirez77 said:

I still don't get the praise.  It still strikes me as people just trying to find anything positive to say about the game.

You think I give a shit about trying to find something positive about the game? I shit on H5 as an all around game. H3 has both a shitty multiplayer and outside of a couple of levels, a pretty mediocre campaign. I do not care about "trying to find anything positive to say about the game" or whatever shit assumption you're on. H4's campaign is good. There's no conspiracy. Get over it.

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H4s campaign is something I would refer to as "alright" but given that we're talking about things in context of 343 Halo, I guess it is a masterpiece. 

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14 minutes ago, Ethereal Nights said:

You think I give a shit about trying to find something positive about the game? I shit on H5 as an all around game. H3 has both a shitty multiplayer and outside of a couple of levels, a pretty mediocre campaign. I do not care about "trying to find anything positive to say about the game" or whatever shit assumption you're on. H4's campaign is good. There's no conspiracy. Get over it.

I think if we're talking level design someone has to bring up something objective to really argue about with the campaign in H4. If we're just referring to the story, well, its awful just because if you only play the games you don't actually ever find out what is even happening outside of shoot the bad guys. Its also just a really weird conversation to begin with because the single player Halo games might have at times been strong for an FPS but overall this is really the wrong genre to get picky with. Its all pretty shit storytelling compared to games that actually excel in that category 

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38 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

I think if we're talking level design someone has to bring up something objective to really argue about with the campaign in H4. If we're just referring to the story, well, its awful just because if you only play the games you don't actually ever find out what is even happening outside of shoot the bad guys. Its also just a really weird conversation to begin with because the single player Halo games might have at times been strong for an FPS but overall this is really the wrong genre to get picky with. Its all pretty shit storytelling compared to games that actually excel in that category 

We're not out here comparing Halo to Metro. Lol.

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CE is the only campaign I can replay constantly just for the gameplay alone. The only reason I played H2-H5's campaign more than once was due to out-of-bounds exploration, easter eggs, skulls, or achievements.

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H3>odst>reach>CE>>>H2>>>>>>H4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>h5

Dont @ me

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11 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

CE campaign is so great it's like you're playing it twice every time you beat it!

Oh wait...

PNmz51g.png

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5 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I know. It's why I like it. Among other things.

Gameplay aside, as I asked the other person, do you have examples about it being poorly written. Or what somehow made it not feel like a "Halo" game, which I argue is pretty loose and nebulous.

I mean, everything Chieftainz already said.  It relies on external media to understand properly and has little relation to any games that came before or came after.  Chief having a few extra lines of dialogue and being "sadfaec :(" at the very end is overblown as immense character development when it's not.  The librarian scene was ?!?! and just reinforces the idea he's the special chosen one killing machine.  Mrs. Egghead and Mr. GimmeThatDorito were thoroughly unlikeable characters that served no point.  The Didact is killed off as soon as he is introduced (or is he?  OOooooOOOoooOO) and had lame motivations anyways, and for being a practical demigod is killed off pretty cheesily.

As for not feeling like Halo, come on.  The music and visuals are radically different, the covenant are pushed aside, the game takes itself super seriously, prometheans break just about everything previously established about the forerunners and would look ridiculous if inserted into any of the other titles.

1 hour ago, My Namez BEAST said:

CE campaign is so great it's like you're playing it twice every time you beat it!

Oh wait...

Oof.  Ya got me.

The levels *are* rehashed but changed up enough to still feel like distinct missions (especially The Maw, most of which takes place in completely different areas of the ship).  And aside from that one complaint the gunplay and sandbox design are the best available, managing health / ammo actually matters, and the first half is full of well designed missions.

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If you consult my 100% accurate placement of the various half campaigns, you'll see that halo CE, while a good campaign, is a couple rungs bellow the top spot. Partly because of the repeat levels.

 

There, that matter is settled.

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It’s fair to note campaign in FPS games aren’t great. They’re mediocre at best because of how lame the game truly becomes. You’re shooting AI whom are too easy and then on higher difficulty the only real change is they take more bullets to kill thus we now go into the common term “bullet sponges” . I’m actually excited for these supposed rpg elements for the campaign because that honestly would be great. The halos have an amazing story, heck’s they should have some flood only side stories or some shit like that. 

 

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People bitching about the H2 campaign but praising the CE campaign is one of Halo's all-time bonehead arguments. 

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5 hours ago, Ramirez77 said:

I mean, everything Chieftainz already said.  It relies on external media to understand properly and has little relation to any games that came before or came after.  Chief having a few extra lines of dialogue and being "sadfaec :(" at the very end is overblown as immense character development when it's not.  The librarian scene was ?!?! and just reinforces the idea he's the special chosen one killing machine.  Mrs. Egghead and Mr. GimmeThatDorito were thoroughly unlikeable characters that served no point.  The Didact is killed off as soon as he is introduced (or is he?  OOooooOOOoooOO) and had lame motivations anyways, and for being a practical demigod is killed off pretty cheesily.

As for not feeling like Halo, come on.  The music and visuals are radically different, the covenant are pushed aside, the game takes itself super seriously, prometheans break just about everything previously established about the forerunners and would look ridiculous if inserted into any of the other titles.

Yeah, it doesn't rely on external media at all. The media can accent it, but I didn't end up reading Cryptum until early 2014, and still entirely got Halo 4 as a game. Because it's self-contained and explains everything that's relevant just fine. You know the main goal of the protagonist, the antagonist, who the antagonist is, who they're affiliated with, and what they can do, and what the protagonist is affiliated with, and what they can do. As a story explaining its beats, it's literally fine. If not great because there is actual inference that goes on, over just expositioning shit out. Rant time, because I do hate this point. Nothing personal.

Not to patronize, but let's go over newly introduced stuff in that is relevant to its plot. In Halo 4, you know the main antagonist, the Didact, is a living Forerunner, he has high command over Promethean constructs, his motive is to enslave humanity based on prior grudges and a twisted sense of justice, and he doesn't deem humanity worthy of the Mantle, an imperialistic peace, as they're not a strong enough species, and he intends to pursue this peace and enslavement by using the Composer to turn us into digital husks of ourselves. All of this is shown or explained in some way in the base game, so you do understand what's going on. This stuff is more elaborated on in the Forerunner Saga of novels and Terminals, and you'd probably appreciate nods and references more, but as a game, it actually explains this stuff. During "Forerunner" and "Reclaimer" specifically. None of this requires external media to know, and it's all the stuff that's relevant to the plot.

Then there's the opposite way of introducing a new foe. Combat Evolved. It treats the Covenant as a threat that has been around for some time, referencing past battles, we know they're aliens, specifically an empire. We don't know their leaders, we know their plan during CE is to use a Halo, but dialogue has it conveyed as them using the Halo against us, when in reality it's a matter of ascension in their eyes, nothing to do with intentional genocide. We don't know why they were attacking us well beforehand, either. Ironically enough, this is never explained in the original trilogy, let alone CE. It's only explained during Contact Harvest. Long after CE came out. You'd actually need a novel to understand the literal 30 years of bloodshed leading into Halo: CE. We had no reason for that up until 2007, and when we got it, it was relegated to a novel, post-Halo 3. When none of it mattered because all of the characters in that thread were dead and the Covenant was fractured. THAT is a bad reliance on external media, and I find it weird no one has ever spoken on this given it's fucking crucial. Halo 4 didn't do that. Its media and terminals accented things. They didn't act in place of those things.

Towards Chief, it is immense character development. But it's only immense because CE-3 had you playing a caricature. Not a character. In reality, the character development he got was normal, and very well handled given some of it, like body language in "Shutdown", was subtle, and won't be picked up by everyone. Boiling it down to simple points isn't really proper form. The latter two points, being unlikeable, or having lame motivations doesn't really act as good criticism. You can feel they're lame, but that doesn't explain why past feeling a certain way. I don't think we'll get too far there, though.

Del Rio was a character who acted entirely in the right for his time in Halo 4. Him snapping at someone who breaks protocol, while arguably out of line socially, was still understandable given Chief did defy a commanding officer with a deadly outcome being made possible as we understand rampant AI. When you're already being attacked by an unknown enemy and you have someone on your side potentially screwing things up, that IS an issue worth being outright angry about. This also falls into dramatic irony, as Chief, and we by proxy, the player, have seen things he hasn't, and may not believe given the extent of the Forerunner's powers. You're not necessarily supposed to like him, but as a character he also gave Chief agency, given the latter normally just follows orders. Him defying a high commanding officer to simply keep his friend around in spite of the risks is more than enough to say he had a proper role. Almost like an inverse of Lord Hood. Except Del Rio did something.

On not feeling like Halo, I disagree. It's still nebulous, and narratively, I still feel Halo 4 handled being a sequel better than some prior Halos. Dawn had clear references to past events, the fact the duo was out of the picture for so long, the Covenant's finicky return to attacking humans, the like. There are clear seeds planted letting the player know the game's a sequel, without coming off as pandering so you can make a connection that bridges two entries. It also didn't need to be entirely connected to the past, given its subject matter which was borderline irrelevant to the plots of the past three titles.

Not to mention, the point of "the Covenant being shoved aside" kinda doesn't make sense when you consider the narrative of the games. What about how the Prophets literally got the shaft of a lifetime in Halo 3? In Halo 2, we see them a lot. They play a large role in the plot, for good reason, and are a major role in why we have the Chief, Arbiter, and Tartarus acting as they do. And that's not counting the actual characterization as sly leaders. They had a good, large role, because the Covenant was the centerpiece of the trilogy, and acted as good antagonists. Halo 3 had Truth relegated to a Crow's Nest cutscene and the next time you see him is when you kill him in "The Covenant". He kills Miranda, fails to activate the Halos, and that's it. There's nothing adding to his character, or his motivation as one of the three leaders who started this war. Which absolutely sucks given they're just about to end it. It reminds me of Megatron in Transformers 2 to 3. Except in 3 he was actually "replaced" by a legitimate antagonist over him just being spoken of and never seen until his death sequence. And he still DID something notable. Truth didn't. Which is nuts. THAT is being pushed aside in a truly negative way

But it makes sense that the Covenant gets pushed aside in Halo 4. They're not a massive empire anymore. They exist in fragmented remnants, but they're not the driving force of the plot, who they're led by isn't our concern, getting home is. Individuals in the Covenant remnants may get in the Chief's way but no one is actively following him, he just runs into them by circumstance based on a mutual interest. How they even came across the Dawn was circumstance. I'd say that feels more like Halo because it not only actually feels like a sequel where the last game's ending had tangible consequences on this once powerful united set of species, but also has said species being just as interested as we are in Requiem's secrets with a subtle build up as to why they were interested, and why we should be horrified. And we get an evolution on the cast over it just being there to fill a faction space in the same way it always does.

In addition, why is it bad the game took its material seriously. I would rather have that then something that won't, because it keeps me engaged when something sees its own conflicts and issues as a legitimate concern that hangs over the plot like a shadow, as it should. I don't want bathos, and as a game, Halo 4 didn't need it in a way Halo 2 would with Johnson. Halo 4 filled its seriousness in with quieter moments that allow you to relax. Most of how it slowed its seriousness was accomplished in gameplay, which was ten times better than letting its actual plot suffer.

Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaastly, Prometheans don't break anything as they were. Because the only real canonical thing we got on the Forerunners that was superbly conclusive was the set of novels released in 2011 onwards, which fits them in fine. The fact there are AI guardians present in the Forerunner's arsenal isn't an issue at all, given how they were explained. Which was, they were meant to be a niche tactic to be used against the Flood, late in the war. Armigers in Halo 5 were a larger issue than Knights, lol. And art style wise, I don't really care about it when each game stands on its own and will have elements that stand out. Halo 2's stone Forerunner architecture does this especially. And is handwaved off despite the implications it sets with being inconsistently stone that we never see again anywhere else. Same for Elites, but man, I don't even wanna get into that. It's not necessarily good to be occurring, but the fact I can't fit a Knight in CE is fine, when I can't fit CE into Halo 3 in most cases.

Writing is hard, lol.

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On 3/1/2019 at 4:51 AM, Hard Way said:

There’s A LOT of people out there that were introduced to Halo via split screen MM at a friend’s house.

This was the process when I was growing up as my parents were too poor to buy a console (nor did they even want to, they were very anti-video games at the time):

1. Go to friends house.

2. "Hey check out this sweet new game"

3. "Does it have splitscreen?"

4. "No."

5. *Inserts Halo disc*

 

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On 2/26/2019 at 7:04 PM, Exidrion said:

Speaking of silence...

 

Things aren't looking that great.

 

On 2/27/2019 at 3:47 AM, Mow said:
Quote

The leading name to take on the job was Gearbox, the studio behind Borderlands. The studio has a history with Halo, as it developed the PC edition of Halo: Combat Evolved. However, Ross said she thought it was "blasphemy" to have an outside studio make a Halo game.

 

17 hours ago, My Namez BEAST said:

CE campaign is so great it's like you're playing it twice every time you beat it!

Oh wait...

This stupid shit again?

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People still play campaign?  Crazy.

i done about half of the halo 4 campaign, I didn’t enjoy it because the game plays, feels like shit because it’s you know,  halo 4. 

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A solid Campaign has not lost importance in Halo and I've yet to be swayed.

The Campaign is what gives the Multiplayer lasting value. If the entire game is just MP then there's no 'hype period' when you hop into a lobby and experience a whole other side of the game's universe. There's no familiarity.

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Thing about halo 4 is I actually liked the chief and Cortana bits. I liked them quite a bit. It was virtually everything else that didn't really do it for me.

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