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Halo Infinite Discussion

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1 hour ago, Shekkles said:

Prove it?

https://discord.gg/JKRZyw

 

ask em unless you think ima show you h2v code. Id have better luck shopping an image than doing that

 

if u want to experience it, try to see if you can find a server with increased projectile speed. Youll notice the difference instantly

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5 hours ago, Riddler said:

i dont think the h2 br is insanely fast. Its listed as 400 fall off damas and when you increase it to 450, 600, 800, the perceived shot reg imrpoves every time, and you wont get hits when you miss generally (h2 does sometime reward u for missing, think swipe snipes). So it seems to suggest that its not 9999 units per tick for h2 and you do have to lead on lan so...

 

2 hours ago, Riddler said:

Just an update. H2 is 100% projectile. 

You're gonna have to show me that it's functionally projectile in some form before I buy that claim, because I don't.

On the other note, I have no idea what the actual specifics of the igu are in H2 but if it is actually 400 like you say than that's simply the maximum hitscan distance before the projectile completely disappears. Ive literally tested split screen on Zanzibar's beach area, your BR bullets won't reach end-to-end they'll simply disappear in front of someone's farce and no longer exist. Any "shot lead" in H2 you're referring to is either a placebo or the massive magnetism catching the bullets when your reticle is off the player

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Whoever you're talking to on that H2 Cartographer server is full of shit.

 

https://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=14347

 

From Bungies own mouth.

"Halo 2’s Battle Rifle was a hitscan weapon, which is fancy terminology for “instant-hit” which is slightly less fancy terminology for “if the reticule is red when you pull the trigger (in good networking conditions) the bullet packet will hit the target.” Additionally, in Halo 2’s BR the “spread” for the three bullet fire package was reduced in the 1.1 patch, focusing the bullet delivery into a tighter packet than when the game originally shipped. 
...Unlike the Halo 2 Battle Rifle, the Halo 3 Battle Rifle is not a hitscan weapon. There are technically no hitscan weapons in Halo 3. The closest a projectile is to hitscan in Halo 3 is the Spartan laser, which instantly checks for a collision within the weapon’s maximum range (that range is the largest of any weapon in Halo 3). The Sniper Rifle bullet is a high velocity round and covers that same distance in somewhere between two and three ticks. What that means, is that at a certain range, the Sniper Rifle behaves like an instant hit weapon, but at longer ranges it takes two to three frames for the bullet to arrive. Keep in mind that the initial range for the Sniper Rifle is huge.

On the contrary, the Halo 3 Battle Rifle’s bullet velocity is significantly slower than both the Sniper Rifle round and the Spartan Laser beam – this was a decision made by design because the high level goal for the weapon included it requiring players to lead their targets at range. Just like the Sniper Rifle in the example above, at certain ranges, the Rifle will behave like an instant hit weapon – this would be at distances at or inside the range that a three round burst can travel in a single frame. Outside of that relatively small distance – the Battle Rifle changes considerably from its Halo 2 predecessor. "

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Sounds great until you add spread. And a bad net code.

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Could it be that it’s hitscan but with delayed damage delivery? (Not sarcasm)

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On 2/6/2019 at 3:05 PM, MultiLockOn said:

The art lead at CA at the time lol he's actually a fantastic artist, really well known throughout the industry. In the big picture H2A looked awesome. Perf and lighting just should've received some more love that's all.

I'm way late to the party here, but did this guy also do the art for the Halo 4 DLC maps (I think CA handled Majestic and Castle)? The maps themselves were awful but I remember being impressed by how well done the art was on some of them. Monolith, Landfall, and Outcast in particular I thought looked incredible.

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1 hour ago, Hard Way said:

Could it be that it’s hitscan but with delayed damage delivery? (Not sarcasm)

That would make sense. Maybe the delay is a little higher since I’m still waiting for bullets from 2014 to deliver damage.

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4 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Whoever you're talking to on that H2 Cartographer server is full of shit.

 

https://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=14347

 

From Bungies own mouth.

"Halo 2’s Battle Rifle was a hitscan weapon, which is fancy terminology for “instant-hit” which is slightly less fancy terminology for “if the reticule is red when you pull the trigger (in good networking conditions) the bullet packet will hit the target.” Additionally, in Halo 2’s BR the “spread” for the three bullet fire package was reduced in the 1.1 patch, focusing the bullet delivery into a tighter packet than when the game originally shipped. 
...Unlike the Halo 2 Battle Rifle, the Halo 3 Battle Rifle is not a hitscan weapon. There are technically no hitscan weapons in Halo 3. The closest a projectile is to hitscan in Halo 3 is the Spartan laser, which instantly checks for a collision within the weapon’s maximum range (that range is the largest of any weapon in Halo 3). The Sniper Rifle bullet is a high velocity round and covers that same distance in somewhere between two and three ticks. What that means, is that at a certain range, the Sniper Rifle behaves like an instant hit weapon, but at longer ranges it takes two to three frames for the bullet to arrive. Keep in mind that the initial range for the Sniper Rifle is huge.

On the contrary, the Halo 3 Battle Rifle’s bullet velocity is significantly slower than both the Sniper Rifle round and the Spartan Laser beam – this was a decision made by design because the high level goal for the weapon included it requiring players to lead their targets at range. Just like the Sniper Rifle in the example above, at certain ranges, the Rifle will behave like an instant hit weapon – this would be at distances at or inside the range that a three round burst can travel in a single frame. Outside of that relatively small distance – the Battle Rifle changes considerably from its Halo 2 predecessor. "

Bungie are weird people you know this. Also this claims that h3's laser that's 999999 units/frame is different than what they had for h2. 

 

it's not placebo, you have to lead on lan and online. if you don't lead, you won't get the 4shot / shots registering. my best advice to you is download h2v in your spare time and test out 400 vs 800 (or 1600 if you figure out how to edit it yourself). it's not magic code. it's literally changing what is the equivalent of a txt file. if all bungie had to do was change 400 to 800 for their hit reg to be good, they would have done so. They specifically made it 400 for the BR. I know there is a distance where shots disappear. Join the discord and ask the admins about the h2 hitreg. 

It's not like im an ex bungie dev or a current h2v dev, I don't know how to mess with this stuff to show you. join the discord link and just search for the terms projectile and 400 / 800 and read the conversations. 

 

halo 3 uses 180, halo 2 uses 400, and halo online uses 3000 just for numbers. Halo ce's pistol is 300. I dont know if they're equivalent. you walk the same speed in m/s in halo 1,2,3 so they could be. If they are then halo ce's pistol would be closer to halo 2's br than halo 3's pistol! 

 

here is how to setup h2v: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnepXGTWSrn15UC68iBd_cQ the channel owner is actually the person who told me the most about h2's projectile

 

edit: this just in: all servers on h2v right now are 1200 except the mlg servers which are 650. yeah you'll notice instantly that shit connects. play mcc or xlink kai if you want the real OG experience for shot reg. edit2: they just said that default custom games on h2v are still normal so you could lan that or host ur own lobby (have to port forward) if you want to do that too. 

New values:

dTqYXIV.png

Old values:

aDu6fy0.png

They made the br as fast as the original sniper. It does make sense that h2 is projectile since the snipe on mcc/og registers better than the br. 

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I'll paste the two replies in the discord:

Halo 2 uses a modified version of hitscan. In normal hitscan, when the reticule turns red and you shoot another player, that player should take damage regardless of the presence of projectiles or the distance between the players. The projectiles are there just for show. But in Halo 2 this does not seem to be the case. People have experimented with the projectile velocity, like for instance, setting it 0 or a really low value, causing the projectile to move slowly or not at all. When this is done, however, and you shoot at another player when the reticule is red, they won't take damage. So projectiles play a role in bullet damage between players. It's probably also the reason why you have to lead a little at longer distances. It's called a modified version of hitscan because the projectiles are moving so fast, it feels like hitscan

 

and

Halo 2 is not hitscan, no Halo is. There is no fall off damage as far as I am aware, only bullet spread. So the issue with the hitreg currently as it seems is that the players get out of sync when moving and that's why we (temporarily until we can fix it) speed up the projectiles to help the bullets reach the players before they get out of sync. The reason people think certain Halos are hitscan and that some others aren't is because they either have to lead their shots most of the time in some or almost none of the time in others. For example, Halo 2 uses a 400 bullet velocity for the BR projectile but Halo 3 uses 180, which is obviously slower so you will need to lead the bullet into them.

 

The falloff damage thing.. I must just be remembering wrong :p

Also these people are something else  they want to improve the netcode further so they dont have to set the projectile speed higher so they can have their OG lead (well like on lan). Honestly increased projectile seems like the ideal solution at least to me

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Could it be that it’s hitscan but with delayed damage delivery? (Not sarcasm)

No. No more than the speed it takes the CPU to realize to apply the damage, less than a hundreth of a second.

5 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

I'm way late to the party here, but did this guy also do the art for the Halo 4 DLC maps (I think CA handled Majestic and Castle)? The maps themselves were awful but I remember being impressed by how well done the art was on some of them. Monolith, Landfall, and Outcast in particular I thought looked incredible.

I'd have to ask but it's possible. He was at Certain Affinity for a while and I know they did Halo 4's mp. I think he knocked it out of the park on H2A.

4 hours ago, Riddler said:

Bungie are weird people you know this. Also this claims that h3's laser that's 999999 units/frame is different than what they had for h2. 

 

it's not placebo, you have to lead on lan and online. if you don't lead, you won't get the 4shot / shots registering. my best advice to you is download h2v in your spare time and test out 400 vs 800 (or 1600 if you figure out how to edit it yourself). it's not magic code. it's literally changing what is the equivalent of a txt file. if all bungie had to do was change 400 to 800 for their hit reg to be good, they would have done so. They specifically made it 400 for the BR. I know there is a distance where shots disappear. Join the discord and ask the admins about the h2 hitreg. 

It's not like im an ex bungie dev or a current h2v dev, I don't know how to mess with this stuff to show you. join the discord link and just search for the terms projectile and 400 / 800 and read the conversations. 

 

halo 3 uses 180, halo 2 uses 400, and halo online uses 3000 just for numbers. Halo ce's pistol is 300. I dont know if they're equivalent. you walk the same speed in m/s in halo 1,2,3 so they could be. If they are then halo ce's pistol would be closer to halo 2's br than halo 3's pistol! 

 

here is how to setup h2v: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnepXGTWSrn15UC68iBd_cQ the channel owner is actually the person who told me the most about h2's projectile

 

edit: this just in: all servers on h2v right now are 1200 except the mlg servers which are 650. yeah you'll notice instantly that shit connects. play mcc or xlink kai if you want the real OG experience for shot reg. edit2: they just said that default custom games on h2v are still normal so you could lan that or host ur own lobby (have to port forward) if you want to do that too. 

New values:

dTqYXIV.png

Old values:

aDu6fy0.png

They made the br as fast as the original sniper. It does make sense that h2 is projectile since the snipe on mcc/og registers better than the br. 

"Also this claims that h3's laser that's 999999 units/frame is different than what they had for h2. "

It doesn't claim anything of the sort, it just reads that the laser checks for damage instantly within it's maximum range, not the maximum range. Whatever that is it's likely not 9999 because laser travel time is apparent even on maps like standoff when shooting across.

 

 

"it's not placebo, you have to lead on lan and online. if you don't lead, you won't get the 4shot / shots registering. my best advice to you is download h2v in your spare time and test out 400 vs 800 (or 1600 if you figure out how to edit it yourself). it's not magic code. it's literally changing what is the equivalent of a txt file. if all bungie had to do was change 400 to 800 for their hit reg to be good, they would have done so. They specifically made it 400 for the BR. I know there is a distance where shots disappear. Join the discord and ask the admins about the h2 hitreg. "

 

I know it's not magic code Ive seen the engine for myself, I've been working in dev for 3 years now and have played with it myself. The first thing you should realize is that Bungie is notorious for their dogshit netcode. That being said, you're right. If it was as simple as changing a number to double to fix the "problem" they would've done it.  But they didn't because the gun was already effectively hitscan so it would make no difference. You have the developers of the game telling you that their weapon is hitscan, you tell me why they wouldn't double the number if that would solve all their problems. There is no shot lead in H2 nor has their ever been.

 

2 hours ago, Riddler said:

I'll paste the two replies in the discord:

Halo 2 uses a modified version of hitscan. In normal hitscan, when the reticule turns red and you shoot another player, that player should take damage regardless of the presence of projectiles or the distance between the players. The projectiles are there just for show. But in Halo 2 this does not seem to be the case. People have experimented with the projectile velocity, like for instance, setting it 0 or a really low value, causing the projectile to move slowly or not at all. When this is done, however, and you shoot at another player when the reticule is red, they won't take damage. So projectiles play a role in bullet damage between players. It's probably also the reason why you have to lead a little at longer distances. It's called a modified version of hitscan because the projectiles are moving so fast, it feels like hitscan

 

and

Halo 2 is not hitscan, no Halo is. There is no fall off damage as far as I am aware, only bullet spread. So the issue with the hitreg currently as it seems is that the players get out of sync when moving and that's why we (temporarily until we can fix it) speed up the projectiles to help the bullets reach the players before they get out of sync. The reason people think certain Halos are hitscan and that some others aren't is because they either have to lead their shots most of the time in some or almost none of the time in others. For example, Halo 2 uses a 400 bullet velocity for the BR projectile but Halo 3 uses 180, which is obviously slower so you will need to lead the bullet into them.

 

The falloff damage thing.. I must just be remembering wrong :p

 

 

"Halo 2 uses a modified version of hitscan. In normal hitscan, when the reticule turns red and you shoot another player, that player should take damage regardless of the presence of projectiles or the distance between the players. The projectiles are there just for show. But in Halo 2 this does not seem to be the case. People have experimented with the projectile velocity, like for instance, setting it 0 or a really low value, causing the projectile to move slowly or not at all. When this is done, however, and you shoot at another player when the reticule is red, they won't take damage. So projectiles play a role in bullet damage between players. It's probably also the reason why you have to lead a little at longer distances. It's called a modified version of hitscan because the projectiles are moving so fast, it feels like hitscan"

 

So literally exactly what I said. It's projectile tech cranked up so that the guns behave as a hitscan weapon

Halo 2 is not hitscan, no Halo is. There is no fall off damage as far as I am aware, only bullet spread. So the issue with the hitreg currently as it seems is that the players get out of sync when moving and that's why we (temporarily until we can fix it) speed up the projectiles to help the bullets reach the players before they get out of sync. The reason people think certain Halos are hitscan and that some others aren't is because they either have to lead their shots most of the time in some or almost none of the time in others. For example, Halo 2 uses a 400 bullet velocity for the BR projectile but Halo 3 uses 180, which is obviously slower so you will need to lead the bullet into them.

I don't understand what damage fall-off has anything to do with whether or not a weapon is hitscan or projectile.  I literally went and tested it for everyone to see.

Halo 2

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/multilockon/video/69224946

 

Halo 3

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/multilockon/video/69224995

 

The same exact frame my BR fires in Halo 2 and the bullets disappear from the HUD indicator the other player is taking damage.  XboxDVR has a built in .25x speed player there so you can see for yourself.  Halo 3 is there as a reference to show the actual palpable delay you can see for yourself with a true projectile weapon.  It is literally, measurably, the same exact frame in Halo 2.  And before the inevitable "yeah but technically the code is still projectile" claims - it doesn't matter what the underlying tech is if that's how the gun functions.  And as you can see, if the gun is dealing damage at the absolute maximum range before the bullets disappear, then there is literally 0 opportunities for any shot lead to ever exist in 2

That paragraph you linked from those discord guys reads like mumbo jumbo. It's nonsense. Halo 2 / Reach are hitscan, have always been hitscan, and require 0 shot lead.  Saying anything otherwise is not just extremely disingenuous but objectively wrong.

 

Hope this doesn't come off argumentative fyi, I appreciate the conversation.  Just hoping to clear up some confusion that's all :)

 

EDIT: As for this comment

 

" They made the br as fast as the original sniper. It does make sense that h2 is projectile since the snipe on mcc/og registers better than the br.  "

 

This is most likely due to 1: the sniper having more generous magnetism than the BR, and 2: it's sending out WAY less packets of information than the BR, and in a much more clear fashion.  Every BR burst sends out 3 packets of info, a snipe shot a single one.  It's very obvious when you hit a snipe shot.  When you miss a bullet out of the BR burst? Much harder to tell what's going on and what landed. 

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Points of clarification which most people probably know: H2’s base movement speed is actually a bit slower than H1/H3’s, and the spartan laser shoots 5 times every trigger release, which may make travel time appear longer.

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On 2/11/2019 at 5:18 AM, Mr Grim said:

Someone link that halo 2 noobified video from a million years ago.

 

22 hours ago, The Tyco said:

-snip-

And I would argue that this game still takes more skill to be proficient at than any Halo game that has come after it.


I think a lot of people on TB who have never once played in a really sweaty FFA or 4v4 lobby like to say that the H2C BR is extremely easy to land shots with; however when you add in the tight dynamic strafes and "thinner" spartan models in that game, you see a lot less 4 shots than what you're used to in social matchmaking.  Similar to how many pistol fights in CE are not always 3sk, you can actually dodge player's bursts in H2.  This doesn't really happen at all in H2A.

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4 minutes ago, Squatting Bear said:

 

And I would argue that this game still takes more skill to be proficient at than any Halo game that has come after it.


I think a lot of people on TB who have never once played in a really sweaty FFA or 4v4 lobby like to say that the H2C BR is extremely easy to land shots with; however when you add in the tight dynamic strafes and "thinner" spartan models in that game, you see a lot less 4 shots than what you're used to in social matchmaking.  Similar to how many pistol fights in CE are not always 3sk, you can actually dodge player's bursts in H2.  This doesn't really happen at all in H2A.

Lol if you play a good team in any game it's gonna feel harder. Thats not the point. 

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I'll be honest, halo 2's easy feeling weapons is one of the reasons I like playing h3 over it. As wonky as the aiming is, playing close in 3 feels more fun due to the challenge. 

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Halo 2 has not aged well imo, it was the first Halo on XBL though,  after all.

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On 2/12/2019 at 12:38 AM, Riddler said:

I'll paste the two replies in the discord:

Halo 2 uses a modified version of hitscan. In normal hitscan, when the reticule turns red and you shoot another player, that player should take damage regardless of the presence of projectiles or the distance between the players. The projectiles are there just for show. But in Halo 2 this does not seem to be the case. People have experimented with the projectile velocity, like for instance, setting it 0 or a really low value, causing the projectile to move slowly or not at all. When this is done, however, and you shoot at another player when the reticule is red, they won't take damage. So projectiles play a role in bullet damage between players. It's probably also the reason why you have to lead a little at longer distances. It's called a modified version of hitscan because the projectiles are moving so fast, it feels like hitscan

 

and

Halo 2 is not hitscan, no Halo is. There is no fall off damage as far as I am aware, only bullet spread. So the issue with the hitreg currently as it seems is that the players get out of sync when moving and that's why we (temporarily until we can fix it) speed up the projectiles to help the bullets reach the players before they get out of sync. The reason people think certain Halos are hitscan and that some others aren't is because they either have to lead their shots most of the time in some or almost none of the time in others. For example, Halo 2 uses a 400 bullet velocity for the BR projectile but Halo 3 uses 180, which is obviously slower so you will need to lead the bullet into them.

 

The falloff damage thing.. I must just be remembering wrong :p

Also these people are something else  they want to improve the netcode further so they dont have to set the projectile speed higher so they can have their OG lead (well like on lan). Honestly increased projectile seems like the ideal solution at least to me

 

 

 

Is this on Xbox H2 and H2V? 

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2 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Is this on Xbox H2 and H2V? 

Yeah. 

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15 hours ago, Mow said:

Halo 2 has not aged well imo, it was the first Halo on XBL though,  after all.

2 holds up perfectly fine. Sure the presentation is very dated but if you were to update the multiplayer to have the graphics, animations, visual feedback, etc. of something like Reach, but with the exact same gameplay, there'd be nothing dated about it. Same with CE honestly. It's not the gameplay of these titles that puts people off.

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59 minutes ago, ARUKET said:

2 holds up perfectly fine. Sure the presentation is very dated but if you were to update the multiplayer to have the graphics, animations, visual feedback, etc. of something like Reach, but with the exact same gameplay, there'd be nothing dated about it. Same with CE honestly. It's not the gameplay of these titles that puts people off.

Eh, H2's superman lunges, aim assist that bends around corners and the downright awful hitreg (I'd actually say it's worse than CE on MCC) make it feel very dated. The game just feels wrong, maybe if they can finally fix all the issues surrounding the game it will change my view on it, but as of right now it's hands down the worst performing game on MCC.

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5 minutes ago, Basu said:

Eh, H2's superman lunges, aim assist that bends around corners and the downright awful hitreg (I'd actually say it's worse than CE on MCC) make it feel very dated. The game just feels wrong, maybe if they can finally fix all the issues surrounding the game it will change my view on it, but as of right now it's hands down the worst performing game on MCC.

Anecdotal but I think the H2 hit reg at long range is definitely worse than CE, but consistently better in close to mid. 

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Let me put it this way, which would you rather play forever, H2 or CE? 

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My only issue with Halo 2 is maps. Everyone (myself included) tends to glorify the Midships and Lockouts when the nostalgia train is rolling, and it's easy to forget just how many awful maps like Gemini, Ivory Tower, Foundation, the Longest remake, etc. are running around. Plus I never liked Sanctuary.

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Gemini is literally the worst halo map bungie ever made. Not only does the design make zero sense, it doesn't matter since you can't see jack shit on it because of the lack of light anywhere.

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