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Just watched Shyway stream some halo 5 team arena, and I have to say that I was surprised at the way he was moving around in the game. Not to defend halo 5 at any means but the game has some interesting meta regarding movement...

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7 minutes ago, stagierewe said:

Just watched Shyway stream some halo 5 team arena, and I have to say that I was surprised at the way he was moving around in the game. Not to defend halo 5 at any means but the game has some interesting meta regarding movement...

what was surprising?

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Just now, Knighty Knight said:

what was surprising?

That the game actually has some skill based movements that I never had seen or thought of before.

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Not sure what the infatuation is with having a "Pro Team" helping on Halo Infiite. Current "Halo Pros" eat, sleep and dream Team-shot Halo. That's what they grew up on and what they're good at. Why would I want them further pushing that kind of play? 

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So I've been out of the loop but do we know anything about Infinite other than that trailer?

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57 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

Not sure what the infatuation is with having a "Pro Team" helping on Halo Infiite. Current "Halo Pros" eat, sleep and dream Team-shot Halo. That's what they grew up on and what they're good at. Why would I want them further pushing that kind of play? 

Great point that deserves attention. 

From Ogre 2's "no bloom=no skill" comment, ghostayame's "halo 3 is more competitive than halo 2" argument, Ryanoob's "halo 4 is the best" statement, Chig's "are you sure the H3 BR isnt 5sk" misunderstanding, and the pro's general indifference on crap like sprint, I dont trust a group of Halo pros to influence game design in a positive direction. Anyone remember when the pros were saying "H4 feels like Halo?" 

Just because they play the game a lot doesnt mean they understand what's best from a game design perspective, much like how eating a lot of food doesnt make you a pro chef. 

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1 hour ago, Destroyaaa said:

So I've been out of the loop but do we know anything about Infinite other than that trailer?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Frank O'Connor say a year or two ago that the next game would "use Halo 5's gameplay as a base," or something like that? I think everyone just wanted to forget about that and hope for the best.

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1 hour ago, Gobias said:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Frank O'Connor say a year or two ago that the next game would "use Halo 5's gameplay as a base," or something like that? I think everyone just wanted to forget about that and hope for the best.

what are they defining as the base of halo 5?

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I don't believe that statement holds any weight at this point. Plus, it could mean a dozen different things. 

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26 minutes ago, TeeJaY said:

I don't believe that statement holds any weight at this point. Plus, it could mean a dozen different things. 

My point is that it means just as much as the Infinite tech demo, if not more.

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2 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

Great point that deserves attention. 

From Ogre 2's "no bloom=no skill" comment, ghostayame's "halo 3 is more competitive than halo 2" argument, Ryanoob's "halo 4 is the best" statement, Chig's "are you sure the H3 BR isnt 5sk" misunderstanding, and the pro's general indifference on crap like sprint, I dont trust a group of Halo pros to influence game design in a positive direction. Anyone remember when the pros were saying "H4 feels like Halo?" 

Just because they play the game a lot doesnt mean they understand what's best from a game design perspective, much like how eating a lot of food doesnt make you a pro chef. 

A lot of the people working on the game are not actually very skilled at the game. You might have some diamond level players, but I bet there's only a small handful actively playing Infinite that push into Onyx and Champion. This makes for some very lopsided play tests with a huge range of skill. I wouldn't trust a pro team to make fundamental gameplay decisions that shape the entire game, but I would want them actively playing Infinite during development and giving feedback so the developers can see how the game plays at a high level.

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15 minutes ago, timeforkoalas said:

so the developers can see how the game plays at a high level.

Sure, but do you trust the developers to make good decisions with that information? 

If they had the best players in the world playtesting Infinite and found that average utility weapon kill times were equal to minimum kill times at the highest possible tier of gameplay, I wouldnt expect the devs to make a good decision with that information, which would be to reduce bullet mag/aim assist. 

Rather, I would expect them to make no adjustments to the utility weapon or, worse, add RNG.

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2 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Sure, but do you trust the developers to make good decisions with that information? 

If they had the best players in the world playtesting Infinite and found that average utility weapon kill times were equal to minimum kill times at the highest possible tier of gameplay, I wouldnt expect the devs to make a good decision with that information, which would be to reduce bullet mag/aim assist. 

Rather, I would expect them to make no adjustments to the utility weapon or, worse, add RNG.

If developers can't be trusted to make good decisions with more information, then the game isn't going to be good either way. I think more information on how the game plays at varying levels would help good developers make good decisions.

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40 minutes ago, timeforkoalas said:

If developers can't be trusted to make good decisions with more information, then the game isn't going to be good either way.

I think this is the most likely scenario given that the developers have demonstrated with each new Halo game that they cant make good decisions, even if they have a pro team in house. 

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4 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

Great point that deserves attention. 

From Ogre 2's "no bloom=no skill" comment, ghostayame's "halo 3 is more competitive than halo 2" argument, Ryanoob's "halo 4 is the best" statement, Chig's "are you sure the H3 BR isnt 5sk" misunderstanding, and the pro's general indifference on crap like sprint, I dont trust a group of Halo pros to influence game design in a positive direction. Anyone remember when the pros were saying "H4 feels like Halo?" 

Just because they play the game a lot doesnt mean they understand what's best from a game design perspective, much like how eating a lot of food doesnt make you a pro chef. 

I’m pretty sure Ogre 2 has specifically clarified that he never made that comment some time ago here on TB.

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4 hours ago, timeforkoalas said:

A lot of the people working on the game are not actually very skilled at the game. You might have some diamond level players, but I bet there's only a small handful actively playing Infinite that push into Onyx and Champion. This makes for some very lopsided play tests with a huge range of skill. I wouldn't trust a pro team to make fundamental gameplay decisions that shape the entire game, but I would want them actively playing Infinite during development and giving feedback so the developers can see how the game plays at a high level.

Even then it doesn't really help without really thinking about the feedback. We saw that with the insider builds. Basically what happened was a few of us that can see onyx/champion/50s/whatever would solo queue into mostly unskilled players and the rest of us would actually just get on a t04 and see multiple geese every game so even providing real feedback was hard in a lot of situations. Their pro team needs to probably be bigger than 8 players to avoid that happening and they shouldn't even be allowed to play other people in the studio most of the time or they'll develop habits and/or opinions that don't actually hold up against other skilled players. This is actually why I really want to see large amounts of people in the flights with strict party/skill matching included asap. Hopefully more strict than something you would even see on retail. The skill matching and party size information should also be included with any feedback they take via w/e they decide is their official channel.

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Assuming perfect net code and hit detection is there anyone who would still prefer a hitscan utility over a projectile one for Infinite? If so, why? 

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2 hours ago, LI Mr X IL said:

Assuming perfect net code and hit detection is there anyone who would still prefer a hitscan utility over a projectile one for Infinite? If so, why? 

I prefer projectiles however the amount of people who don't actually understand what leading even is or the difference between leading shots and spread is absolutely astounding. I don't even mean in terms of hit registration or netcode. They use the words lead or spread interchangeably like they mean the same thing. I think that is probably the main argument against it and its crazy that there are actually so many people who don't understand it. They'll say things like "Why do you have to miss to hit shots?" and my brain starts to melt. I don't know if its because I've been using guns from time to time for my entire life or what but I really can't comprehend how people don't immediately understand it when they see it

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3 hours ago, LI Mr X IL said:

Assuming perfect net code and hit detection is there anyone who would still prefer a hitscan utility over a projectile one for Infinite? If so, why? 

I'll post an argument for hitscan, and a proposed solution I have that mitigates my issue with projectile. One thing I don't like in games is hidden information, or even if it's not exactly hidden if it's tough for me to learn not necessarily because it's a hard concept but because you have to guess until you get it right. When you first pick up a game with projectile bullets it's hard to see when they're hitting their target, so it's not necessarily that you're bad at aimining, you just don't know where to aim. Rockets are slow moving, have a trail of smoke, and make a giant explosion, you can easily learn from that and figure out where you should have aimed. This isn't just a more skill or less skill argument, this is entirely a preference thing.

One solution for my issue is to make an on hit effect on surfaces o very visibly show when your bullets hit. Halo 3 has this a bit but I think it's hard to see. Halo 1 has bright sparks and I can easily see when shooting down on somebody, or shooting somebody against a wall, why I'm failing to hit them. Assuming we use some sort of hit effect on other surfaces to show when your bullets are hitting, or come up with a different solution I'm fine with projectile. Otherwise I would actually prefer hitscan.

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On 1/4/2019 at 7:24 PM, BigShow36 said:

Not sure what the infatuation is with having a "Pro Team" helping on Halo Infiite. Current "Halo Pros" eat, sleep and dream Team-shot Halo. That's what they grew up on and what they're good at. Why would I want them further pushing that kind of play? 

 

Let's not confuse the idea that we have a better chance (no guarantee ofc) of Halo Infinite playing like one of the original 3 games, or at least not having sprint if we have a pro team, with an "infatuation". 

Unless you believe perhaps we have a better chance of getting that without a pro team? In all honesty though I wish 343 would just come out and say whether this game is going to have sprint or not so I can know whether or not to even waste my time talking about it.

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6 hours ago, Mow said:

 

Let's not confuse the idea that we have a better chance (no guarantee ofc) of Halo Infinite playing like one of the original 3 games, or at least not having sprint if we have a pro team, with an "infatuation". 

Unless you believe perhaps we have a better chance of getting that without a pro team? In all honesty though I wish 343 would just come out and say whether this game is going to have sprint or not so I can know whether or not to even waste my time talking about it.

I think they’re trying to decide what’s best. 343 wants to make a compromise but clearly can’t find a way to do that without removing sprint. Hells many people have stated they’d be cool if all abilities went away except thruster(but with it decently nerfed)  that honestly could play pretty good because it’s ONE button combination  and unlike clamber and sprint it’s map design change wouldn’t be too drastic I believe. I personally would prefer no abilities at all, but 343 has this mindset where they need to not only please classic fans like us, but also it’s h5 fanbase. Those guys like the new shit even if gamers from not just halo will tell them advanced movement has failed. We’ve stated many reasons why sprint needs to go and the other abilities, but still 343 is too foolish to get the idea you can’t please everybody. There’s evidence people like the way h3 plays. Most people won’t play h1-2 because of simple reasons like graphics and buggy animations. But I bet you if 343 gave halo 2 classics multiplayer the graphic enhancement that they gave campaign, people be playing that more. On that note yes graphics do matter especially in h1-2s case because they haven’t aged well. No offense all of you guys are 26+ where you can look at ce and say “it’s not that bad looking”. We still need to attract new people to halo at the least, and graphics draw people/kids in.  And h3 still looks pretty impressive to this day. 

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15 hours ago, Silos said:

I'll post an argument for hitscan, and a proposed solution I have that mitigates my issue with projectile. One thing I don't like in games is hidden information, or even if it's not exactly hidden if it's tough for me to learn not necessarily because it's a hard concept but because you have to guess until you get it right. When you first pick up a game with projectile bullets it's hard to see when they're hitting their target, so it's not necessarily that you're bad at aimining, you just don't know where to aim. Rockets are slow moving, have a trail of smoke, and make a giant explosion, you can easily learn from that and figure out where you should have aimed. This isn't just a more skill or less skill argument, this is entirely a preference thing.

One solution for my issue is to make an on hit effect on surfaces o very visibly show when your bullets hit. Halo 3 has this a bit but I think it's hard to see. Halo 1 has bright sparks and I can easily see when shooting down on somebody, or shooting somebody against a wall, why I'm failing to hit them. Assuming we use some sort of hit effect on other surfaces to show when your bullets are hitting, or come up with a different solution I'm fine with projectile. Otherwise I would actually prefer hitscan.

That’s a fair argument against projectile. Guess work sucks and I don’t think there’s anything skillful in it. It would definitely need a way to clearly indicate to the player where there shots are landing. 

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6 hours ago, Mow said:

 

Let's not confuse the idea that we have a better chance (no guarantee ofc) of Halo Infinite playing like one of the original 3 games, or at least not having sprint if we have a pro team, with an "infatuation". 

Unless you believe perhaps we have a better chance of getting that without a pro team? In all honesty though I wish 343 would just come out and say whether this game is going to have sprint or not so I can know whether or not to even waste my time talking about it.

I believe it will but the game will play way better when it's turned off.

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1 hour ago, Knighty Knight said:

I believe it will but the game will play way better when it's turned off.

The only halo that’s played good with sprint turned off was halo reach because the map design and weapon balance worked with it off quite well.

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