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Halo Infinite Discussion

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9 hours ago, NAK said:

It doesn't matter what they do with Infinite in regards to the campaign or casual multiplayer. If they want Competitive Halo to actually be a thing in the future they need to find an identity and stick to it (Counter Strike is the best example). If 343 had any modicum of intelligence they would 100% let the community drive what "Halo Esports" means as the game progresses. They need to stop thinking of it as a marketing tool and realize that a true competitive game is much more than that. 

Exceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeept the community can make some really stupid decisions, lol. Finding an identity is fine, agree it's needed (I don't really feel it has been an issue, nevertheless, most Halos, good or bad have had a comp identity), but the last thing I want is community involvement with anything but criticism. Unless that is what you refer to.

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27 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

The community didn't put radar in tournaments. 

The community did vouch for BR starts in favor of the magnum at one point, however. And I'm 90% sure community feedback also resulted in Fathom flag, one of the best gametypes, being replaced with a dumbass Sanc remake (And an associated gametype with it) that plays like legitimate ass, lol. 

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1 hour ago, Riddler said:

The community is why we have two shit ass 2 base 2 tower forge maps in h3. 

I think Killa KC is why that is. 

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3 hours ago, Riddler said:

The community is why we have two shit ass 2 base 2 tower forge maps in h3. 

Well I can't speak for the conversations they had with pro players but I know first hand they received quite a lot of feedback about Ons/Amp and it wasn't always pretty to say the least. One of the more common responses was wanting fast paced teamshot driven maps that default H3 didn't really provide at all. They're not wrong about that but if I had been spawn assassinated on Amp one more time in 2009 I might have lost my mind at one point. I see the need for that style of gameplay I just never agreed that two maps with boxes, dumpsters and the worst spawns out of any map in the entire series was the answer

 

As for the overall conversation about community driven settings... I think we would do a much better job than 343 did with H5. We have before however someone has to truly be in charge and control and focus what we're trying to accomplish. This is a conversation that came up very often especially in Reach with the MLG settings guys. You have to look for ways to improve the game, leave it accessible, have it look appealing, and remain familiar to the new player jumping in from other playlists. Which means nobody should ever take 300% movement speed swat with concussion rifle starts seriously even if it may actually take more skill than default Halo. That's an extreme meme example but people will try to become competitive setting purists and start making the game alien to anyone trying to play it if nobody stops them. Some people want to make a new game out of it when the reality is that you just need an improved and competitive vision applied to whatever game it is you already have. IE Halo 5 would've had to remain Halo 5 in the end. Stuff like BR start would have been stupid and rightfully got shut down but playing over a year with radar and autos was equally stupid because it just degraded the competitive integrity of the game

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11 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

The community did vouch for BR starts in favor of the magnum at one point, however. And I'm 90% sure community feedback also resulted in Fathom flag, one of the best gametypes, being replaced with a dumbass Sanc remake (And an associated gametype with it) that plays like legitimate ass, lol. 

People voted for the BR out of nostalgia. If you changed the properties of the gun people would still vote for it. If you asked the community for less aim assist they would absolutely say yes. 

 

The community developed Evolved settings which are 100% better than default h5. 

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31 minutes ago, VinnyMendoza said:

People voted for the BR out of nostalgia. If you changed the properties of the gun people would still vote for it. If you asked the community for less aim assist they would absolutely say yes. 

 

The community developed Evolved settings which are 100% better than default h5. 

And they still voted for/wanted it, and (Big IIRC) ended up getting Sanc back in over Fathom. My point is, the community makes stupid decisions just as a dev may, and I'd rather have dev support over community support in most cases.

And while the Evolved settings were great, only three people stuck around to actually refine them to be as competitively viable as they could be, lol. Four if I'm being generous. Like, yeah, they're great. And four people saw it through to the end and worked on it. It wasn't so much "the community" making it the best it could be, as much as it was a literal friend circle who just wanted cool customs that no one else would play in the end, lol. 

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If halo infinite doesn't end with chief and arby holding hands and staring longingly into each other's eyes after a whole campaigns worth of teasing their true feelings as they go through a portal, I'll be pissed. All my shipping will have been for nothing.

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14 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Exceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeept the community can make some really stupid decisions, lol. Finding an identity is fine, agree it's needed (I don't really feel it has been an issue, nevertheless, most Halos, good or bad have had a comp identity), but the last thing I want is community involvement with anything but criticism. Unless that is what you refer to.

"Power weapons are stupid. Take them out."

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1 minute ago, The Tyco said:

"Power weapons are stupid. Take them out."

"Power weapons help the game. Keep them in." 

We can all simplify each other's arguments to a base sentence without substance.

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8 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

"Power weapons help the game. Keep them in." 

We can all simplify each other's arguments to a base sentence without substance.

Your in depth tirades against power weapons are equally without substance.

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It would be dope as fuck if they got rid of clamber, thruster packs, etc and brought Halo back to the good ole’ days.

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32 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

"Power weapons help the game. Keep them in." 

We can all simplify each other's arguments to a base sentence without substance.

Your entire argument against Power weapons is that they get the other team free kills.

 

If only you had a fucking gun or something so you can kill them before they get the fucking things. 

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18 minutes ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

Your entire argument against Power weapons is that they get the other team free kills.

If only you had a fucking gun or something so you can kill them before they get the fucking things. 

You realize I think power weapons are downright stupid when I get them, too, right? And that my issue isn't just a matter of being cheesed out by the enemy team, but cheesing them out as well? "Shooting my gun" to potentially kill a dude charging for, or holding rocks (Good joke), and then getting them doesn't at all actually help or tackle the root issue I have here. It just means I'm on the other end of the extreme, where I get the uncontested kills, which is still a problem.

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Power weapons are pretty stupid. A list of unique but powerful weapons is a better design choice.

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6 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Power weapons are pretty stupid. A list of unique but powerful weapons is a better design choice.

True, that's not her argument though as even the H3 sniper is apparently way too easy to use and we have all been fooled for over a decade because of the bad aim mechanics.

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36 minutes ago, Basu said:

True, that's not her argument though as even the H3 sniper is apparently way too easy to use and we have all been fooled for over a decade because of the bad aim mechanics.

The argument is the way that Power Weapons work (and people accept it because it's ingrained into every Halo following CE) is that they give a very clear advantage without the necessary disadvantages. They are either easy, full of ammo, have stupid spawn jurisdictions, or are a combo of the three. Rockets should have been the only true Power Weapon from the start, with everyone still having a powerful but difficult Utility that could drop a player fast if used efficiently.

Can you type in this thread with full confidence that you've never groaned in annoyance when you got killed by a Shotgun, or a Plasma Pistol, or a Needler, or a Brute Shot, or an Energy Sword, or a Spartan Laser, or a Rail Gun, or a Scatter Shot, or a Mauler, or a Camo Player, or whatever kind of rugrat baby easy gun that was found on a Halo map?

 

 

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Power weapons/items are a necessary evil in an otherwise fair/balanced/neutral game, imo. But they’re supposed to be offset by a competent utility weapon, and since the main purpose is just to encourage conflict, you only really need one or two for that besides powerups. Rockets and maybe Sword to add a very different dynamic.

The idea of having 7 guaranteed-kill weapons is asinine, though. It’s completely a function of (1) being afraid to give good players a deadly precision weapon off spawn and (2) being afraid to include “powerful” weapons that bad players can’t wreck with instantly.

It reminds me of the sentiment that a sidearm (the pistol) shouldn’t be powerful. On the other extreme, a big weapon should give you an insurmountable advantage with no tradeoffs, obviously. 

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Power weapons aren't supposed to be guaranteed kills, they're supposed to be powerful within their functional purpose when used correctly. 

You know, like they are in a certain well-designed Halo game. 

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14 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Power weapons aren't supposed to be guaranteed kills, they're supposed to be powerful within their functional purpose when used correctly. 

You know, like they are in a certain well-designed Halo game. 

Exactly. I think that mostly holds true until you start seeing things like railguns or how the beam rifle worked in H4. Like rockets for example actually blow in H3 and H2 if you don't position correctly you will die. In CE the explosion radius is ridiculous but it only fits when the pistol or really any gun in the game nearly can contest and quickly kill you if they're well positioned. Things went downhill very fast when you started seeing railguns with aim assist, saws, no descope or H5 snipers. Before that our biggest complaint would've been the H2 sword, plasma pistol and maybe swiping with the H2 snipe. Now if you played the default settings you would've encountered more annoyances over the years but I'm not sure this is the place for that talk

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5 hours ago, S0UL FLAME said:

The argument is the way that Power Weapons work (and people accept it because it's ingrained into every Halo following CE) is that they give a very clear advantage without the necessary disadvantages. They are either easy, full of ammo, have stupid spawn jurisdictions, or are a combo of the three. Rockets should have been the only true Power Weapon from the start, with everyone still having a powerful but difficult Utility that could drop a player fast if used efficiently.

Can you type in this thread with full confidence that you've never groaned in annoyance when you got killed by a Shotgun, or a Plasma Pistol, or a Needler, or a Brute Shot, or an Energy Sword, or a Spartan Laser, or a Rail Gun, or a Scatter Shot, or a Mauler, or a Camo Player, or whatever kind of rugrat baby easy gun that was found on a Halo map?

 

 

I fully agree with that and I think especially H5 shit the bed in this regard as literally every weapon on the map is a either a direct upgrade to the starting weapon or hands out free kills left and right. 

It's also why I cited Halo 3s Sniper because it is imo one of the most well balanced power items outside of CE. It's decently hard to use, has a slow rate of fire, is on a slow timer and spawns in either highly contested areas like S3 or each team gets one. The only thing that makes it a little forgiving is the shittyness of the H3 BR meaning the sniper is uncontested past mid range (you will still get descoped and then overrun though). This is not an issue with the Sniper itself though and outside of CE, all other Halo games have a far bigger gap between sniper and starting weapon. 

IcePrincess wants to pretty much abolish the concept of map pickups altogether and according to her even H3 Sniper or CEs pickups are stupid free kills and it should only be the starting weapon and no power ups either. That's what I meant with that post. 

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6 hours ago, Basu said:

True, that's not her argument though as even the H3 sniper is apparently way too easy to use and we have all been fooled for over a decade because of the bad aim mechanics.

I didn't say we were definitively fooled by bad aim mechanics, I just made a cheeky "bet" based on someone beginning to nail more H3 headshots on aiming that doesn't suck dick. The game's been out for ten years, people would've adapted to shit aiming mechanics. Granted, it wouldn't surprise me if we were, given how downright broken any diagonal angle is with H3, but I don't currently have a viewpoint on it extending past my personal performance in any empirical sense. 

41 minutes ago, Basu said:

I fully agree with that and I think especially H5 shit the bed in this regard as literally every weapon on the map is a either a direct upgrade to the starting weapon or hands out free kills left and right. 

It's also why I cited Halo 3s Sniper because it is imo one of the most well balanced power items outside of CE. It's decently hard to use, has a slow rate of fire, is on a slow timer and spawns in either highly contested areas like S3 or each team gets one. The only thing that makes it a little forgiving is the shittyness of the H3 BR meaning the sniper is uncontested past mid range (you will still get descoped and then overrun though). This is not an issue with the Sniper itself though and outside of CE, all other Halo games have a far bigger gap between sniper and starting weapon. 

IcePrincess wants to pretty much abolish the concept of map pickups altogether and according to her even H3 Sniper or CEs pickups are stupid free kills and it should only be the starting weapon and no power ups either. That's what I meant with that post. 

Halo 3's sniper is given more credit than it really should get, and "little forgiving" is the understatement of the century in a game with a BR that has the range of a dick's spitting distance, lmao. The fire rate isn't slow enough to prevent an easy double shot, its timer doesn't stop the fact it exists and even one kill by it is still a cheeseball experience, and where it spawns on the comp maps (Pit and Narrows), ends up literally buffing its best traits of LoS. Guardian is the one map that gives it that disadvantage of a lack of range, and it can still be used like a shotgun, lol.

Whew, Narrows. Gives me shivers. Power weapons in a straight shot on the map. End my life, please.

And yeah, CE's pickups (Especially but not exclusively) all suck. Give me good, solid gunfights and good maps and objectives to fight on and for, without powerups/weapons. I don't get why this is a foreign concept when it provided one of the best experiences I've ever, and probably will ever have in a Halo game.

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Halo's sandbox is in a dire need of being refurbished. Lots of redundancy in the air.

 

To echo Lemon, Power Weapons are at their best when they are difficult but strong in their niche. You can also add lots of variables to weapons, like melee distance, or gimmicks like the stun the PR does in H1. It is rather upsetting that such thing have been overlooked since H3 onwards as they offer lots of situational awareness.

 

(Going to attempt to post more on the site. Missed interacting with you guys.)

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