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Halo Infinite Discussion

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the building in fortnite is ridiculously complex and you know the difference between people good at it and people who aren’t

 

One game does not accurately reflect that

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I came in second the very first time I ever played it... Pure luck. Luck can be a great equalizer when it comes to making a game appeal on a causal level.

Winning isn't what shows you're good lol. Most of the best players don't win because they just engage as many people as possible. Now coming in second in a scrim game against people all trying to win is a different story. When I first started playing I would get top 5 every game simply because my friends and I were all newbies and would avoid all fighting. I know battle royales are all about surviving and winning but most good people just wanna fight and go for high kill games.

 

So yea you can place pretty high fairly often but you're not gonna be good or actually win. The amount of people I've met that haven't won a single game is pretty damn high. So if winning is the standard think of how much easier it is to win in a game like halo.

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Really? I haven't browsed casual Halo discussions much in the last three years, apart from Twitch chats, but it seems like the only real criticism of it has come from competitive fans. To me, it seems to obviously appeal to the casual players and campaign fans almost universally. I think they feel respected by the developers expecting them to understand it, and that it gives them a taste of competitive-feeling gameplay, similarly to the feel of low-level CoD. That actually might slightly support Halo esports in a kind of twisted way, although obviously not enough to be worth it.

 

I no longer think the conception of the "skill gap" or the "skill floor" is useful to the discussion. Rather, I think the discussion should shift to "the plays" (as in, the "big plays" that are made in a match). Clip moments, in other words. The button complexity of H5 creates a series of micro-plays for the lower levels, for example. These "plays" are the real core of both addictive casual play and addictive competitive play, and to realize this means to abandon the "skill gap" idea for the "plays-per-game" idea. The real question, then, is how you correctly line up the Skill 1-Skill 50 curve with the levels of plays that are suitable for that skill level, and to do so in a way that won't interfere with the higher or lower skill levels. Mostly, I think it's the lower "play-making features" that interfere with the higher, rather than vice versa. A lot of what goes into a "big play" is also aesthetic and characterological, particularly at the lower levels, with the concept of "feeling like a Spartan", for example, being amplified through Reach's respectable and refined grey and skeletal visual direction, or through sounds and indicators and feedback. At the higher levels, "feeling like a Spartan" doesn't even register as a concept.

 

But returning to the original point, I suppose new players would require that a game not be dead. Old casual players seem to be the ones that like H5.

Casuals don't discuss video games on discussion boards. When you go on waypoint, you arent talking to casuals - you're talking to hardcore halo fans who may happen to like the current direction as it pertains to non-competitive. They represent a niche, just like we do here.

 

Casuals are those who play the game, but don't neccisary have a sense of devotion to it. They'll buy it if it's suggested to them, They'll play it if their friends are on. And if can get into it with little investment, they'll occasionally hop on in a whim. From this point, they might grow into a dedicated fan. Most importantly, they'll leave in a heartbeat if something shinier comes along

 

Halo 3 had a massive population because it appealed not only the social-leaning "waypoint niche" and the competitive "team beyond niche" but most importantly to casuals. There were so many people logging in who weren't deeply invested in the franchise, but we're compelled enough by the social experience and the gameplay to check back in often, even when other games were becoming mega franchises

 

Halo 5 has a casual problem- it didn't have great word of mouth, people's friends aren't on, and it takes Too much of a time investment to become competent thanks to the convoluted controls..

 

The "plays-per-game" concept certainly isn't more relevant than the skillgap concept. I'd say "plays-per-game" or "feeling like a spartan" aren't relevant at all to a games success. What's most important is that a game is immediately accessible, but has the depth to keep people interested in learning more. 343 can make people feel like a Spartan, without convoluting the controls, and delaying action with frivolous animations. But attempts at making people feel like Spartans resulted in a game that isn't immediately accessible, and lacks depth - killing is appeal on both ends of the spectrum. They all but guarunteed that the only people who would stick around are the franchise devoted, social-leaning, waypoint niche.

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Winning isn't what shows you're good lol. Most of the best players don't win because they just engage as many people as possible. Now coming in second in a scrim game against people all trying to win is a different story. When I first started playing I would get top 5 every game simply because my friends and I were all newbies and would avoid all fighting. I know battle royales are all about surviving and winning but most good people just wanna fight and go for high kill games.

So yea you can place pretty high fairly often but you're not gonna be good or actually win. The amount of people I've met that haven't won a single game is pretty damn high. So if winning is the standard think of how much easier it is to win in a game like halo.

That's my point. The high skill floor isn't a deterrent to low skill players because you can be under the floor and still find success and enjoyment. Even if you don't win, you can be like "yay I placed top 10" even though you killed one person who didn't even see you.

 

In Halo, you just get shit on.

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That's my point. The high skill floor isn't a deterrent to low skill players because you can be under the floor and still find success and enjoyment. Even if you don't win, you can be like "yay I placed top 10" even though you killed one person who didn't even see you.

 

In Halo, you just get shit on.

Yea but you still can win in halo especially since it's team based. And you win more often. The main point is just that a high skill floor isn't the reason a game like h5 failed. It failed due to a million reasons. And if a game as complex as fortnite can become so big then I think we can all see that halo has a LOT of work to do outside of just gameplay to become relevant again.
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Yea but you still can win in halo especially since it's team based. And you win more often. The main point is just that a high skill floor isn't the reason a game like h5 failed. It failed due to a million reasons. And if a game as complex as fortnite can become so big then I think we can all see that halo has a LOT of work to do outside of just gameplay to become relevant again.

Skill floor is A reason halo failed, not the reason.

 

That said if you are incompetent at Halo5, most likely you aren't having any fun, even if you occasionally win by getting carried. You still spent the whole match getting bodied. For this reason, skill floor is going to be more of a deterrent than in a game like Fortnite where RNG can and does overcome ones skill or lack of skill.

 

A player can completely ignore Fornite's complexity and still have fun in the game. It's like poker in that regard. But try completely ignoring H5s movement mechanics and the extent of the ass whooping will be insufferable.

 

Also, I don't think how often you win in Fortnight should be directly compared to wins in Halo. Success in Fortnight isn't binary. You can feel good about a top 20, top 10, top 5, or first place finish. In Halo you just win or lose.

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I can personally vouch for trying and failing to bring 2 new fans into the franchise with 5. I’ve been reluctant to try again.

I can vouch for 3 that played for a few weeks and left.  Their reason was all the same: It feels like work just to get around. They have all said they won't be buying Infinite just out of loyalty but they will if its good.

 

I came in second the very first time I ever played it... Pure luck. Luck can be a great equalizer when it comes to making a game appeal on a causal level.

RNG works baby.

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Yea but you still can win in halo especially since it's team based. And you win more often. The main point is just that a high skill floor isn't the reason a game like h5 failed. It failed due to a million reasons. And if a game as complex as fortnite can become so big then I think we can all see that halo has a LOT of work to do outside of just gameplay to become relevant again.

Just put the best Halo map of all time in the game. You know the one boy.  

 

ɄɎ

 

 

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d7d661bb-ecdd-4271-9fa9-e28a0fc88e60.PNG

 

Anyone else think is among the most disgusting shit in Halo history? They intentionally made the SR ranks so grindy and stupid that they are now making people buy boosts with real money to skip ahead. And for what? Last time I checked there is absolutely no meaningful reward to getting SR 154, hell the ranks don't even look good it's literally a fucking number next to the name lmao. Anyone who spends money on this should just get slapped.

Some people over-compensate with their e-Cocks. 

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I never once thought about SR or whatever its called during my whole H5 playtime. Seems like the most pointless thing ever.

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I never once thought about SR or whatever its called during my whole H5 playtime. Seems like the most pointless thing ever.

I personally like it, but we need better rewards.

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I never once thought about SR or whatever its called during my whole H5 playtime. Seems like the most pointless thing ever.

They don't even give out good req packs for gaining a new rank. Ranks are just a lazy number instead of the cool symbols they used to be. It's about as artificial and shallow as one can make a progression system.

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If Infinite requires you to use a special controller to keep up, it will be H5 again... but probably worse.

Yeah, a keyboard & mouse :kappa:

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I never once thought about SR or whatever its called during my whole H5 playtime. Seems like the most pointless thing ever.

Yeah it's hard for me to be outraged by then selling boosts when i have no motivation to grind XP anyway.

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I hope we never see SR like it was in H5 again. It was pointless. The overabundance of rewards and the length of the grind made everything feel bland. Who even knows which helmet that guy is wearing anyways when theres like 150 options? Less but more meaningful and notable rewards is always better if you want people to actually care.

 

What I personally want is for them to just fall back and use the Halo 3 ranks/playlist exp/armor unlocks as a base and bring it around to 2019 (or 2020) as far as weapon skins and depth of the system goes. Starting off with a decently sized but small selection in comparison to Halo 5 would be fine. If they want to nail games as a service it will help them when they come back every few months with a new content patch, cosmetics, maps, modes, and challenges to get the new stuff because the new stuff will be distinct and that will help drive players towards trying to get it

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Fortnite has a higher skill floor than any game I've ever played and it's the biggest game in the world.

 

It's for kids...

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Yeah it's hard for me to be outraged by then selling boosts when i have no motivation to grind XP anyway.

The issue is that they intentionally made the grind absurdly long so they could later sell pay2rankup packs. It's not a huge issue, given that people who spend real money on garbage like that probably also bought the other worthless microtransactions, but bottom line it is still a scummy move.

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Does anyone here truly believe 343 will remove sprint and spartan abilities? Maybe I'm just wasting my time waiting to see gameplay. 

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Does anyone here truly believe 343 will remove sprint and spartan abilities? Maybe I'm just wasting my time waiting to see gameplay.

They will probably remove some and rework others. There's no way they will remove both sprint and thruster though. I also don't see ADS going anywhere because "expected in a modern shooter"

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The issue is that they intentionally made the grind absurdly long so they could later sell pay2rankup packs. It's not a huge issue, given that people who spend real money on garbage like that probably also bought the other worthless microtransactions, but bottom line it is still a scummy move.

Oh it's absolutely scummy, but it's so poorly designed that its only going to effect the morons who support worthless microtransactions anyway.

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