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Halo Infinite Discussion

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I don't have a problem with starting with an AR but the AR needs to actually be a proper variant and it needs to be the secondary weapon.  You should spawn with the intended, more powerful but harder to use, precision starting weapon out.  AR secondary.  The H5 AR is just a travesty.  Any automatic weapon that has ADS and headshot bonuses is frankly dogshit.  If the AR was like a very slightly weaker H4 AR, spawning with it would be fine. The original H5 AR was laughably easy and way too powerful for way too long up the skill curve.  The new one is only better balanced against totally shielded opponents.  The 200% headshot multipliers still make it a long range cleanup machine.  Its 6 of one half dozen of the other as far as balance goes.  All they needed to do was remove the headshot multiplier and ADS and make it take like 2 or 3 more bullets to pop shields.

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I don't have a problem with starting with an AR but the AR needs to actually be a proper variant and it needs to be the secondary weapon. You should spawn with the intended, more powerful but harder to use, precision starting weapon out. AR secondary. The H5 AR is just a travesty. Any automatic weapon that has ADS and headshot bonuses is frankly dogshit. If the AR was like a very slightly weaker H4 AR, spawning with it would be fine. The original H5 AR was laughably easy and way too powerful for way too long up the skill curve. The new one is only better balanced against totally shielded opponents. The 200% headshot multipliers still make it a long range cleanup machine. Its 6 of one half dozen of the other as far as balance goes. All they needed to do was remove the headshot multiplier and ADS and make it take like 2 or 3 more bullets to pop shields.

I agree that an auto should almost always be spawned as a secondary. Assuming reasonable balance, there really isn't an good reason not to, when a definite standard for Halo has yet to be set.

 

Although, what is wrong with the H4 Turbo AR? 13 bullets to kill vs 16 at launch and in H3. 15 bodyshots for H5 launch. I would not be a fan of the Reach 19sk AR. That is just too weak.

 

Too much magnetism, maybe (which applies to everything in H4)?

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Auto starts is only good for the most casual mode. It's objectively shit in every other type of playlist

Auto-only starts aren’t good for ANYTHING. All they do is delay your growth as a player.

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An actual non-shit BR/DMR + Magnum combo would be pretty cool as a mainstream load-out. Lets the pistol take a "sidearm" role but really acts as extra magazine ammo for the primary if it's balanced well. Negates the need for a bunch of precision clones to be placed around the map.

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An actual non-shit BR/DMR + Magnum combo would be pretty cool as a mainstream load-out. Lets the pistol take a "sidearm" role but really acts as extra magazine ammo for the primary if it's balanced well. Negates the need for a bunch of precision clones to be placed around the map.

I am of the opinion that players should only spawn with the utility weapon. It encourages movement, even if its only to pick up a mid tier weapon and it makes it easier to pick up a second weapon when you don’t have to switch to the weapon you want to drop before picking up a new one.

 

As for the DMR, I wouldn’t make it a spawn weapon. I would make it a map pick up in BTB. It has a higher magnification scope and deals increased damage to vehicles at the cost of reticle bloom (which doesn’t matter when you’re shooting at something as large as a vehicle). I would make the Needle Rifle able to get supercombines against vehicles too. Now you have two “anti vehicle” precision rifles. One that deals low damage with every shot and one that deals high damage after a number of shots.

 

Arena really doesn’t need multiple precision rifles, especially when they’re as similar as a DMR and a Magnum.

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I agree that an auto should almost always be spawned as a secondary. Assuming reasonable balance, there really isn't an good reason not to, when a definite standard for Halo has yet to be set.

 

Although, what is wrong with the H4 Turbo AR? 13 bullets to kill vs 16 at launch and in H3. 15 bodyshots for H5 launch. I would not be a fan of the Reach 19sk AR. That is just too weak.

 

Too much magnetism, maybe (which applies to everything in H4)?

 

With a stronger utility, you might be right and its probably fine as-is.  I'm trying to thought-experiment kill times across across titles which can be tough and idk what the actual TTK is of the AR.  I played a couple H4 games the other day and it seemed a tiny bit too strong going against BR's and DMRs but H4 has longer kill times on the precision weapons than i would like anyway and I may have just been playing against garbage cans.

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H4 AR with a slight damage nerf, but increased utility like the H1 AR has...that's a pretty solid starting secondary.

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The H5 AR post rebalance is even more broken than before in some ways. It is an insane clean up weapon, using the Plasma Rifle or Plasma Pistol in combination with the AR is taking the noob combo to a whole new level. I never understood what was so bad about the H4 AR that they had to reinvent the wheel for H5. Seems like 343s "change for the sake of change" philosophy doesn't even stop at their own creations lmao.

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I liked KOTH with AR starts in H2A before it got patched out. There, I said it.

 

Possibly the only time I ever will.

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An actual non-shit BR/DMR + Magnum combo would be pretty cool as a mainstream load-out. Lets the pistol take a "sidearm" role but really acts as extra magazine ammo for the primary if it's balanced well. Negates the need for a bunch of precision clones to be placed around the map.

 

The Halo 5 Beta's BR/Magnum starts were almost exactly like this, except the Magnum had a much faster kill time. The Magnum in the beta felt similar to the first iteration of the Gunfighter, but it was a 5 shot instead of 6. I wouldn't mind having that kind of dynamic between two weapons for the standard gametypes, and would rather have the AR as a pickup

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Considering the slower fire rate, the H4 Turbo AR can't quite kill as fast in 13 shots as the HCE AR does in 15-16, which is almost quite literally the H5 launch SMG. A big factor for deciding the power of the auto is the power of the utility, obviously.

 

The other most important factor, is the burst-fire vs full-bloom ratio of the above autos. The CE AR is notorious for being so laughably inaccurate when spraying full auto that even the shotgun probably has better range. And burst-firing it is such a minor improvement that it is meaningless. Which limits the reliability factor in its utility due to the lack of reward to burst-firing.

 

In Reach, H4, and H5, burst-fire is pinpoint accurate, but going full auto is accurate enough that there really isn't much point for burst-fire in the first place, since in this reversed situation, spraying provides no proper punishment. CE proves that you can still have a hella lethal AR that isn't cheesy simply because it literally can't melt at all past CQC. Later Halo ARs get cheesy since they can melt too reliably just by spraying at almost mid-range.

 

No Halo has ever had an auto that is both laughably inaccurate when sprayed full auto, but pinpoint accurate when burst-fired. The ratio has always been one or the other.

 

I am a huge advocate for rewarding burst-fire and punishing full auto. Bloom is perfect for that kind of auto, it just hasn't been done right yet. If done right, I have no problem with it being lethal, either. In fact, I admit that I would prefer it that way. As long as optimum burst-fire killtime doesn't overstep the utility weapon past CQC, I'm all for it melting in CQC, using the CE AR as a guideline.

 

Then, just give me a huge ammo mag like CE and add the secondary niche utility traits, and it would be perfect, IMO. This is all assuming a proper utility weapon, of course.

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The Halo 5 Beta's BR/Magnum starts were almost exactly like this, except the Magnum had a much faster kill time. The Magnum in the beta felt similar to the first iteration of the Gunfighter, but it was a 5 shot instead of 6. I wouldn't mind having that kind of dynamic between two weapons for the standard gametypes, and would rather have the AR as a pickup

I really liked the dynamic of the BR/Magnum in the H5 Beta. It was almost the perfect representation of what I wanted after seeing the DMR/Magnum in Reach.

 

BR/DMR for range, ammo, and teamshot.

 

Magnum for fast and aggressive 1v1 pushes.

 

If the the Magnum doesn't kill faster in this setup, than it is 100% redundant in this case, therefore boring IMO, and I would rather just have a bigger magazine for the utility weapon.

 

343I have tried several times to do the double utility, but they always do it wrong with a weak sidarm Magnum, therefore that is why it always fails, IMO.

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Auto-only starts aren’t good for ANYTHING. All they do is delay your growth as a player.

you remember that training mode when you first start h3 multiplayer? That mode you cant play after you've ranked up once?

 

That's the mode it's good for.

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you remember that training mode when you first start h3 multiplayer? That mode you cant play after you've ranked up once?

 

That's the mode it's good for.

 

Nah. Auto-only starts are never good.  Even for a training playlist you're just conditioning players to use the shittier weapon by not even giving them an option. Kind of the exact opposite of what a training playlist should do. All playlists should have Auto/Precision starts except for maybe the main ranked Arena playlist.  Even then, i think a properly tuned Auto/Precision starting loadout would be fine.  We just haven't had that since 2001.

 

At the same time i think having 2 precision weapons as a starting loadout is bad as well.  Even the easiest precision weapons (ideally) have a skill floor that is higher than the average automatic.  IMO the main reason for having auto/precision starts is to have one easy af but relatively weak bullet hose weapon paired with one considerably more difficult but also more powerful precision weapon.  As players play and get better at the game they will start off with the easier auto but transition to the magnum as their gunskill improves until at the highest levels its basically useless except for niche cases like lighting up camo.

 

Edit:  If you want to add some depth to the auto's by making burst first be more accurate thats fine.  But i don't think that the optimum kill time for the auto should overstep or even come close to the optimum kill time of the precision weapons.  We had that with H5 for 2 years and it was terribad.

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Nah. Auto-only starts are never good. Even for a training playlist you're just conditioning players to use the shittier weapon by not even giving them an option. Kind of the exact opposite of what a training playlist should do. All playlists should have Auto/Precision starts except for maybe the main ranked Arena playlist. Even then, i think a properly tuned Auto/Precision starting loadout would be fine. We just haven't had that since 2001.

 

At the same time i think having 2 precision weapons as a starting loadout is bad as well. Even the easiest precision weapons (ideally) have a skill floor that is higher than the average automatic. IMO the main reason for having auto/precision starts is to have one easy af but relatively weak bullet hose weapon paired with one considerably more difficult but also most powerful precision weapon. As players play and get better at the game they will start off with the easier auto but transition to the magnum as their gunskill improves until at the highest levels its basically useless except for niche cases like lighting up camo.

 

Edit: If you want to add some depth to the auto's by making burst first be more accurate thats fine. But i don't think that the optimum kill time for the auto should overstep or even come close to the optimum kill time of the precision weapons. We had that with H5 for 2 years and it was terribad.

I know that I am generally considered a heretic for saying this, but I don't think that autos should become useless damage-wise at high levels, even with niche abilities.

 

Making Burst-fire accurate doesn't mean much of anything if you can still just spray full auto with enough accuracy for a consistently cheesy kill at a decent range. Spraying full auto needs to be extremely punished with severe inaccuracy past CQC, like the AR proves to be the case in CE.

 

Take the H4 example again, in which the Turbo AR already has a slightly faster minimum killtime than the 4sk BR utility weapon. This AR seems to otherwise be praised quite a bit for being useful, with the only request being to slightly nerf it and then add the niche abilities.

 

I say, instead of nerfing damage, significantly nerf the range at which it can spray you down, and actually limit that to near melee-range CQC like the CE AR. Outside of that range, spraying is pretty much just hurting yourself. That way it doesn't seem so easily overbearing.

 

Then, with accurate burst-fire, as long as you can't do it too fast, you can reach out and touch enemies. However, by slowing your fire rate, you slow your minimum killtime by a good margin, and are a lot more susceptible to being out-strafed with a slower rate of fire as well. Making the damage relatively strong just keeps this relevant.

 

Of course strong autos are terribad in H5 when you can just spray them across the room/map with narrow cones of bloom, on top of ADS bloom reductions and headshot multipliers. A high damage auto doesn't have to be a lazer. Speaking of which, I'll only accept a weak auto if it is lazer accurate like the GoW Lancer. But we already have the Sentinel Beam for that, which is literally a lazer weapon anyway.

 

Reward a high damage auto with slow, accurate burst-fire. Punish it just as much with fast, wildly inaccurate full auto spraying. This has yet to be done in any Halo to date.

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What is the purpose of a scope? To increase effective range.

 

Should the Assault Rifle have a scope? No.

 

Should the Assault Rifle have some mechanic to increase its effective range? Yes.

 

The AR is full auto with bloom. Good for close range.

 

Click scope to toggle the weapon into a five round burst with vertical recoil. Good for medium range.

 

The length of the burst coupled with the vertical recoil and lack of zoom prevent it from being effective at long range.

 

20 shots to kill at 1.8 seconds in either mode.

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What is the purpose of a scope? To increase effective range.

 

Should the Assault Rifle have a scope? No.

 

Should the Assault Rifle have some mechanic to increase its effective range? Yes.

 

The AR is full auto with bloom. Good for close range.

 

Click scope to toggle the weapon into a five round burst with vertical recoil. Good for medium range.

 

The length of the burst coupled with the vertical recoil and lack of zoom prevent it from being effective at long range.

 

20 shots to kill at 1.8 seconds in either mode.

As interesting as an alternate firing mode would be, I think that just properly tuning the bloom expansion rate/reset ratio to punish full auto spraying and reward slow burst-firing would be a lot simpler and in familiar line with previous incarnations.

 

Also, a 1.8 second killtime? That sounds even worse than the Reach AR, which was already a painfully slow 19sk. That is the literal definition of useless. I don't think the current niche abilities from CE make up for for lack of damage that much.

 

And no, I don't think it needs a scope either. Although if it did, the bloom should be worse when zoomed to offset the magnification.

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As interesting as an alternate firing mode would be, I think that just properly tuning the bloom expansion rate/reset ratio to punish full auto spraying and reward slow burst-firing would be a lot simpler and in familiar line with previous incarnations.

Also, 1.8 second killtime? That sounds even worse than the Reach AR, which was already a painfully slow 19sk. That is the literal definition of useless. I don't think the current niche abilities from CE make up for for lack of damage that much.

And no, I don't think it needs a scope either. Although if it did, the bloom should be worse to offset the magnification.

If the projectile Magnum was a 4 shot kill with a 1.0 second kill time, that would mean that two missed shots would up the kill time to 1.66 seconds, three missed shots to 1.99 seconds.

 

With the Assault Rifle being hitscan, I think giving Magnum users the ability to miss 2 shots and still beat the AR is good, considering the Magnum is more difficult to use effectively.

 

In addition, giving the AR an accurate burst mode would stop competitive players from hating on it as a social starting weapon so much.

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Nah. Auto-only starts are never good. Even for a training playlist you're just conditioning players to use the shittier weapon by not even giving them an option. Kind of the exact opposite of what a training playlist should do. All playlists should have Auto/Precision starts except for maybe the main ranked Arena playlist. Even then, i think a properly tuned Auto/Precision starting loadout would be fine. We just haven't had that since 2001.

 

At the same time i think having 2 precision weapons as a starting loadout is bad as well. Even the easiest precision weapons (ideally) have a skill floor that is higher than the average automatic. IMO the main reason for having auto/precision starts is to have one easy af but relatively weak bullet hose weapon paired with one considerably more difficult but also more powerful precision weapon. As players play and get better at the game they will start off with the easier auto but transition to the magnum as their gunskill improves until at the highest levels its basically useless except for niche cases like lighting up camo.

 

Edit: If you want to add some depth to the auto's by making burst first be more accurate thats fine. But i don't think that the optimum kill time for the auto should overstep or even come close to the optimum kill time of the precision weapons. We had that with H5 for 2 years and it was terribad.

I was making a joke with that post. The only playlist with auto starts and it locks players out after like a single match lol.

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If the projectile Magnum was a 4 shot kill with a 1.0 second kill time, that would mean that two missed shots would up the kill time to 1.66 seconds, three missed shots to 1.99 seconds.

 

With the Assault Rifle being hitscan, I think giving Magnum users the ability to miss 2 shots and still beat the AR is good, considering the Magnum is more difficult to use effectively.

 

In addition, giving the AR an accurate burst mode would stop competitive players from hating on it as a social starting weapon so much.

I don't think that you should be able to miss that much with the Magnum and still win against an AR that hits pretty much perfect shots. Especially when the AR is generally going to be(or should be) missing a lot pretty often as well.

 

At least with my ideal version, if the bloom is severe enough, full auto would essentially be causing a really slow killtime with all the missed shots, anyway. If you are forced to burst-fire to hit shots, then the AR pretty much already becomes a burst-fire weapon, therefore would now be mostly subject to typical strafing rules. And by slowing your fire rate you are also slowing down your minimum killtime anyway.

 

You don't need pitifully weak damage on top of that.

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If the Battle Rifle was perfectly accurate, would you guys be cool with it being a 12 bullet kill (as in, every bullet from four bursts needs to land with the last being a headshot for the kill)?

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If the Battle Rifle was perfectly accurate, would you guys be cool with it being a 12 bullet kill (as in, every bullet from four bursts needs to land with the last being a headshot for the kill)?

Well, this was exactly the case in H2, after a certain patch.

 

H3 gave it RNG spread projectiles, which made it inconsistent. MLG buffed it to an 11 bullet kill for consistency as a result. Nearly every BR since then has been hitscan and has still had spread, recoil, or both, while retaining the 11sk. Probably making it too easy as a spawn weapon.

 

The H2 version hasn't ever been given a second chance for some reason. Just stating facts.

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>E3 2019

>Classic Halo theme starts

>Master Chief in all his all new revamped suit

>Chief murdering classic styled grunts, elites and brutes with the Halo ring vista in the background

>Seamlessly transition to multiplayer gameplay

>No gimmicks

>No Spartan abilities

>No sprint

>Back to campaign footage

>Chief fighting with the rest of Blue team in a dark forest against an unseen enemy

>Flood scream

>fast cuts, flood screens, shooting

>Master Chief flung across screen, hits tree

>fade to black

>image comes back

> 1 person to your side, 2 people in front of you in a small cart

> your hands are tied

> you’re going through mountain-side forest

> title screen shows

> “The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrims”

> Todd Howard you did it again

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