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Halo Infinite Discussion

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I have never really liked the general labeling of Halo as an "Arena Shooter" anyway.  Its really fairly unique in the shooter landscape.  Why since Halo 3 has it been such a problem to just let Halo be its own thing?

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Classic Arena Shooters don't really have "tiers" or "power weapons" though...rare exceptions like BFG and Redeemer aside.

 

You have the shitty-but-versatile spawn weapon.  Which, if you're smart, can still compete with the on map weapons.

Then fast spawning niche weapons that are roughly equal to each other.  More so in UT than in Quake 3 but still. 

 

Yeah you're encouraged to ditch the spawn weapon as fast as possible but it's not like Pistol < BR < DMR < Sniper.  It's MG < Railgun = Rocket Launcher.

 

I guess it makes sense if you're conflating the armor/shield upgrades of those games with the weapon upgrades of modern Halo?  Though health/armor can be depleted while better weapons are a constant buff.

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You went from being an innocent nugget to rivaling Mecha-Hitler with that suggestion.

Gut.

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Dumbass comment for a number of reasons. Arena shooters don't have a metric fuckton of redundant weapons that serve no purpose, and are typically focused on 1v1 and involve drawn-out jousting exchanges. Halo doesn't do that. 

 

It was /r/halo so of course the average IQ in the thread was around 60 lmao. This was my exact though process as well. H5 has around 5 weapons per niche, while an arena shooter has exactly one.

 

 

Classic Arena Shooters don't really have "tiers" or "power weapons" though...rare exceptions like BFG and Redeemer aside.

 

You have the shitty-but-versatile spawn weapon.  Which, if you're smart, can still compete with the on map weapons.

Then fast spawning niche weapons that are roughly equal to each other.  More so in UT than in Quake 3 but still. 

 

Yeah you're encouraged to ditch the spawn weapon as fast as possible but it's not like Pistol < BR < DMR < Sniper.  It's MG < Railgun = Rocket Launcher.

 

I guess it makes sense if you're conflating the armor/shield upgrades of those games with the weapon upgrades of modern Halo?  Though health/armor can be depleted while better weapons are a constant buff.

 

The only part of the logic that makes sense is that in an arena shooter you usually spawn with the weakest weapons and need to move around the map to get an upgrade. But arena shooters offer 1) an actually balanced sandbox where you don't get shit like Pistol < BR < DMR < Sniper.  and 2) you can still outplay people by being more accurate/strafing and better at collecting health and armor. Neither of that is possible in modern Halo.

 

Just wanted to get some more expert opinions on the matter.

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JEX4xDC.jpg

 

lol, this guy

 

Y I K E S

What’s funny is that doom’s new movement mechanics are mostly designed to empower the player in a fight rather than nerf him. If Halo took that approach, I think there’d be much less backlash. I know I’d be happier.

 

The only exception is clamber, which is mostly rendered irrelevant by double jump and air burst, both of which you can do while shooting and in any direction.

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New Doom has thrust? Eeeeh. SP looks great again and I'm glad they are developing the MP for this one in-house, it honestly sounds promising:

 

 

We are working on a PvP component. It is new. It’s not an extension of what we did last time. So it’s new. It is something we’re developing internally, which we didn’t do last time. I think players are gonna really enjoy it.” “It’s very Doom,” creative director Hugo Martin added. “It’s very good.”

 

But all we know other than that is that it will have thrust. Thrust will have the same issues in does in Halo, even more so with the longer kill times. Idk. Maybe they can balance it correctly unlike 343 so we'll see. Double jump is cool, so is the grappling hook.

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New Doom has thrust? Eeeeh. SP looks great again and I'm glad they are developing the MP for this one in-house, it honestly sounds promising:

 

 

But all we know other than that is that it will have thrust. Thrust will have the same issues in does in Halo, even more so with the longer kill times. Idk. Maybe they can balance it correctly unlike 343 so we'll see. Double jump is cool, so is the grappling hook.

My biggest issue with Thrust in H5 is that in balancing for its inclusion, they weaken the individual.

 

Your in a 1v1, thrust strafe and land a perfect kill instead of being rewarded for outplaying, your a sitting duck for a cleanup kill. In a 1v2, you have to deal with the fact that both opponents can thrust from your one grenade, but you can only thrust once from their 2. This is all due to balancing around the existence of a mechanic that’s on a massive 4s timer.

 

In the new doom, the trust recharges after like 2 seconds, but doesn’t reactivate unless your feet are planted. you also get two thrusts per charge.

 

I don’t think that exact setup would work for Halo. Instead, I could live with more of a short dodge ala H4, that recharges in the time it takes to get a perfect kill. It would function as more of a strafe enhancement than an escape tool.

 

Of course, I’d prefer no thrust, but I think some of Doom IDs ideas would make for a less offensensive implementation.

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My biggest issue with Thrust in H5 is that in balancing for its inclusion, they weaken the individual.

 

Your in a 1v1, thrust strafe and land a perfect kill instead of being rewarded for outplaying, your a sitting duck for a cleanup kill. In a 1v2, you have to deal with the fact that both opponents can thrust from your one grenade, but you can only thrust once from their 2. This is all due to balancing around the existence of a mechanic that’s on a massive 4s timer.

 

In the new doom, the trust recharges after like 2 seconds, but doesn’t reactivate unless your feet are planted. you also get two thrusts per charge.

 

I don’t think that exact setup would work for Halo. Instead, I could live with more of a short dodge ala H4, that recharges in the time it takes to get a perfect kill. It would function as more of a strafe enhancement than an escape tool.

 

Of course, I’d prefer no thrust, but I think some of Doom IDs ideas would make for a less offensensive implementation.

 

Very solid arguments. Of course 343 implemented thrust in the worst way possible, it's what they're good at after all. I'd think this kind of thrust with faster recharge and less distance, but you can shoot during use would work way better than the cancerous teleport in H5, even in Halo.

 

Still of course no thrust > Doom Eternal thrust >>>>>>> H5 thrust

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Setting aren't going to be an issue with he game. I feel pretty strongly that this game is going to have mods (Or something very close to mod support). With a name like "Infinite" and the way Microsoft has talked about mod support on Xbox, I would be shocked if players aren't able to create any style of multiplayer they want for multiplayer. 

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I'm not hugely into thrust being in doom but at the same time I think it'll be fun in campaign at least. Would've preferred them add wall kicks and make the air movement ability default.

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I'm not hugely into thrust being in doom but at the same time I think it'll be fun in campaign at least. Would've preferred them add wall kicks and make the air movement ability default.

I wonder how much that thrust in doom eternal is meant to just be a get out of jail free card. I made it through the campaign just fine without it. I felt the game had a great pace where you could constantly circle around enemies avoiding fire. Last night I was watching my cousin play on a medium difficulty and noticed it was hard for him to avoid it all. In the trailer it looked like it was only used to side step an immediate attack.

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I wonder how much that thrust in doom eternal is meant to just be a get out of jail free card. I made it through the campaign just fine without it. I felt the game had a great pace where you could constantly circle around enemies avoiding fire. Last night I was watching my cousin play on a medium difficulty and noticed it was hard for him to avoid it all. In the trailer it looked like it was only used to side step an immediate attack.

It was used quite a bit for aerial movement as well.

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My biggest issue with thrust is that I can't do it while shooting with bumper jumper, without clawing of course, which I simply won't do.

 

Also H5's aiming is obviously bad and thrust exacerbates the difficulty/frustration pertaining to it.

 

Not to mention that I honestly just don't like the jerky gameplay involved with thrust, and I really don't see any tangible benefits to its inclusion. At best, it's simply a neutral, if annoying addition.

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My biggest issue with thrust is that I can't do it while shooting with bumper jumper, without clawing of course, which I simply won't do.

 

Also H5's aiming is obviously bad and thrust exacerbates the difficulty/frustration pertaining to it.

 

Not to mention that I honestly just don't like the jerky gameplay involved with thrust, and I really don't see any tangible benefits to its inclusion. At best, it's simply a neutral, if annoying addition.

Thrust with B or you're Wrong. You Don't have to Press A and B at the same time ever. You Jump, then you Dash. thats how its done. switching between A and B with thumb is Better than constantly away from your shoot button. And i fucking hate shooting with my middle finger

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Thrust with B or you're Wrong. You Don't have to Press A and B at the same time ever. You Jump, then you Dash. thats how its done. switching between A and B with thumb is Better than constantly away from your shoot button. And i fucking hate shooting with my middle finger

 

I've been shooting with my middle finger since i first got a 360 and went "Why in the actual fuck are the controllers so small?" You get used to it way faster than clawing.

 

Just like with graphical options, consoles are so fucking behind with controls.  Why can't i remap my controls any way i want?  Why are the defaults always so shitty?  Control schemes are actually a good indicator of whether or not your game is too convoluted.  Is it possible to make a control scheme where none of the important combat functions live on the face button? No? Then fix your game.

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I'm not hugely into thrust being in doom but at the same time I think it'll be fun in campaign at least. Would've preferred them add wall kicks and make the air movement ability default.

 

A Wall Kick will never Be good or Engaging in any First Person Game Ever Period

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I've been shooting with my middle finger since i first got a 360 and went "Why in the actual fuck are the controllers so small?" You get used to it way faster than clawing.

 

Just like with graphical options, consoles are so fucking behind with controls.  Why can't i remap my controls any way i want?  Why are the defaults always so shitty?  Control schemes are actually a good indicator of whether or not your game is too convoluted.  Is it possible to make a control scheme where none of the important combat functions live on the face button? No? Then fix your game.

Im only Negging you becuase ill never be able to shoot with my damn middle finger Feel good about yourself 

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 A Wall Kick will never Be good or Engaging in any First Person Game Ever Period

But why?

 

I've been shooting with my middle finger since i first got a 360 and went "Why in the actual fuck are the controllers so small?" You get used to it way faster than clawing.

 

Just like with graphical options, consoles are so fucking behind with controls.  Why can't i remap my controls any way i want?  Why are the defaults always so shitty?  Control schemes are actually a good indicator of whether or not your game is too convoluted.  Is it possible to make a control scheme where none of the important combat functions live on the face button? No? Then fix your game.

Dude, speaking on that, PS3 controllers are tiny. I don't have giant hands, but just long fingers, and it's impossible to play well on a PlayStation, lol. Super tiny controllers.

 

And I wouldn't say consoles are behind on controls, it's just lazy or new devs with regards to enabling custom mapping. Not like anything's stopping consoles from having the feature, barring dev inclusion. And shit defaults can happen on PC, you just can change them. Should entirely be a thing, though.

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Dude, speaking on that, PS3 controllers are tiny. I don't have giant hands, but just long fingers, and it's impossible to play well on a PlayStation, lol. Super tiny controllers.

 

And I wouldn't say consoles are behind on controls, it's just lazy or new devs with regards to enabling custom mapping. Not like anything's stopping consoles from having the feature, barring dev inclusion. And shit defaults can happen on PC, you just can change them. Should entirely be a thing, though.

 

lol yes true on both counts.  I can't play multiplayer on PS4 seriously.  Some console games have this, but only single player or co-op games like Fallout and Borderlands.  Why not multiplayer?  I know the xbox accessories app exists, but then it fucks with your menu's too.  I genuinely want to know why customization isn't standard practice because if the reasoning is just laziness...

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lol yes true on both counts.  I can't play multiplayer on PS4 seriously.  Some console games have this, but only single player or co-op games like Fallout and Borderlands.  Why not multiplayer?  I know the xbox accessories app exists, but then it fucks with your menu's too.  I genuinely want to know why customization isn't standard practice because if the reasoning is just laziness...

It's more baffling when you know devs specifically aim for PC port's parity with consoles, yet a key, defining thing about the PC platform is never endorsed or run with.

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That reddit guy is an insufferable tard, but some of the posts in this thread almost validate him claiming the fanbase can't tolerate change.  Almost.

 

Sidestepping isn't "Thrust".  It can be used a ton of times in a fight (if not infinitely) by both players and lets you shoot while doing it.  It's just as offensive as it is defensive if not more so and is essentially just a replacement/alternative to strafing, for better or worse.

 

It's as old as the genre itself, which is why I think it's amusing the guy calls it "new and innovative".

 

"Wall kick will never be good in an FPS".  Uhh...Unreal Tournament, Quake Champions, etc?  Like damn that's a bold claim.  There are far more impactful movement abilities than a meager wall kick that are still fun in FPS.

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We live in a world where Cooper, Quietman and countless other posters have been banned permanently while this dumbass that does nothing but neg entire pages and shitpost is still here.

Lifecycle of a RedBlueGiG

 

Shortly after birth, a RedBlueGiG lurks the forums neg-bombing pages for no reason.  At this larval stage, the RedBlueGiG will often neg one post while +repping complementary posts of the first in an apparent phase of rep-posting-aphasia. He learns instinctively through this trial and error to hate the color Green and non-negative numbers.

Shortly after discovering his hatred for the color green and non-negative numbers, he enters the adolescent stage.  The hormone-fueled posting of this stage often consists of run-on sentences with little punctuation, coherence and an over-use of Title Case.

In the adult stage, the RedBlueGiG returns to a simpler time, quietly neg-bombing entire pages regardless of the opinions being presented.  Shortly after this stage he disappears for a while.  While no one has personally witnessed this stage, it is presumed this is when he lays his eggs in the ear holes of unsuspecting nerds, awaiting a time when he is almost forgotten, to start the cycle anew.

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We live in a world where Cooper, Quietman and countless other posters have been banned permanently while this dumbass that does nothing but neg entire pages and shitpost is still here.

“Worse than Michael Jackson...”

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