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Halo Infinite Discussion

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Must be looking for a job.  

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Snipedown thinks we need advanced movement. 

Pistola wants Infinite to be "halo 2 with advanced movement"

Ryanoob thinks H5 is the best in the series. 

Sad, but tbh I lost faith in the pros to accurately represent the competitive community a long time ago. 

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Why does the evolution always have to come in the form of player abilities?  Halo is about the sandbox and the maps, not how many dance moves your spartan can do.  

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Halo 5 is the epitome of pressing a bunch of buttons to do absolutely nothing of importance. We do not need advanced movement in an arena-style FPS with small-medium maps set in completely foreign environments as the primary playing surface.

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5 hours ago, Warlord Wossman said:

The problem here is that Halo is not meant to be a competitive game highlighting skill differences between players, it's basically the opposite.


Since console shooters got more popular and stuff like CoD4 and Halo 2 became more mainstream the industry understood that people don't play your game if it's tough to do well in, the wider audience might play only a few hours per day if they even play daily to begin with - they want to relax and play some games after work.
So yeah if you made a shooter for the masses you had to completely negate the skillgap between people so everybody felt like they were effective killing others, if they didn't there were a bunch of other big shooters on the market that gave them exactly that feeling.

Competitive shooters always were on PC and still are, at the time people played Quake 3 Arena and Counter Strike, games that required a lot of brain power and mechanical skill to become really good at and consoles approached shooters the opposite way to cover all the masses of people who didn't want to feel like playing in a tournament.


That didn't stop people from having tournaments tho, if you have a game with bigger population people want to go against each other and that was the basis for all the Halo esports stuff. Today a lot of game devs also balance their games around low tier players but abuse esports for marketing and staying relevant by just throwing some money on it, you can bet people will play if there is money, no matter if your game was designed to play the best in competition or not - look at Halo 5 I guess.

Personally, I definitely agree about the difference in the ways that games were designed on PC vs those on consoles. However, I feel like a lot of that was mostly an artifact, and that the audience in general, on all platforms, is a hell of a lot more interested in competitive mechanics now. It's why eSports viewership has gone up so much in the past decade, and why nearly all video games (on console and PC alike) launch with ranked modes. 

Though, I do think that your belief about console game design does hold true in the current day for Halo, albeit somewhat anomalously.

Point being, I don't think that there really exists a significant rift between consoles and PC in the current day and age. Obviously input methods place skillcaps on consoles, but I don't think that  a game designed competitively would necessarily fail. 

The key to not ruining a Halo game by having a mistaken design philosophy, is to understand that what casual players find enjoyable and what competitive players find enjoyable aren't mutually exclusive. My analogy about doubles on Battle Creek and Base Reach being especially relevant; you can design a game for both competitive players and social players to both have fun in, or you can design a game for social players to have fun in. 

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19 minutes ago, xSociety said:

Let's see what game is more "exciting" moment to moment.

Put a Snakebite gameplay on the left.

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I'd be playing H5 Mythic over either MCC or H5 Arena if I could. It seems like that blend is what Snipedown is talking about and I'm all for it.

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The H5 sandbox is just utter shit. The pistol is a sidearm and I think people have forgotten what's it's like to be able to kill more than 2 people without reloading.

 

The ease of use too, just awful. Then thrust is still a terrible excuse to not have a decent strafe in the game. Don't forget about clamber etc etc etc. H5 should be the last thing we strive for.

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1 hour ago, xSociety said:

5mi2co3tv4b51.png

 

 

Fuck

I love H3 but fuck H3. It has GREAT gameplay but a shitty game is a better option with moving forward IMO. We dont feel you have the greater good of Halo in your intentions, Snipedown.

Sound like a guns too his head in a Taken.snipedown scenario

 

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2 minutes ago, Toastomgi said:

I love H3 but fuck H3

I'd rather play H3 for the rest of time than ever play H5 again. H5 is a total shit-show. At least H3 is manageable and the PC MCC version is the best it's ever been.

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27 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

Put a Snakebite gameplay on the left.

My thing is, you shouldn’t have time to put your gun down, run around then pull it back up in arena play.  Some people wonder why Midship is so popular when it forgoes fundamental aspects of Halo map design like power item control.  Because of the pacing.  It’s fast, it’s in your face, and it compliments the golden triangle nicely.  Shooting is important but throwing grenades is also really important.  

I guess that’s what it is really.  In H2 Midship, grenades are what you do when you have a moment of downtime, toss strategically placed nades.  Stickies are the original sprint.  

Halo 5 gameplay may look better from a spectator perspective, like you’re watching an action movie but that’s only because it’s full of scripted animations and an over abundance of aim assist.  I want to see the players the game, not the game play the game.  

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Too many competitive players want different versions of Halo. We'll never have a cohesive voice.

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3 hours ago, xSociety said:

5mi2co3tv4b51.png

 

 

Fuck

"closer to H5 to appeal to the masses", yes the game that sold not even half on what the other mainline games sold totally "appealed to the masses". I got a headache just watching 20 seconds of that H5 gameplay posted above because I was reminded how dogshit the aiming and sound design in that game are and GOD DAMN that visual noise is insane. Even Mythic was ass aside from the maps and gametypes let's be real. The sandbox, movement and overall feel of H5 are all atrocious, I'd rather play H3 on cross-continental host than any form of H5.

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"Boring to watch?" The hell? Don't get me wrong, I have my issues with H3. It's an inferior competitive game to CE and H2. But it's easily the best spectator Halo. H5 is a snoozefest. 

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H5 is a chore to watch. It's an eye strain and there's more thrusting and sliding than actual shooting.

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I've said it before, but I think what Halo needs more than any specific set of game mechanics is simply "less bullshit." The games from the post-H3 era are riddled with things that make you want to throw your controller across the room. Vanilla H3 certainly suffers from this to a certain extent—last-second bubble shield or regen pops are the bane of my existence—but there are not nearly as many of those "what the fucking hell" moments. It's very, very apparent how much the series has become bogged down in features/mechanics/gimmicks literally designed to cause chaos when you go back and play CE, H2, and even H2A. Those games just provide a much more relaxed experience to me, and despite some less-than-optimal elements in H2A, I prefer the overall feeling that the game provides to what vanilla Reach, H4, and H5 provide.

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5 hours ago, Aphex Twin said:

Snipedown thinks we need advanced movement. 

Pistola wants Infinite to be "halo 2 with advanced movement"

Ryanoob thinks H5 is the best in the series. 

Sad, but tbh I lost faith in the pros to accurately represent the competitive community a long time ago. 

Honestly I'm ready for a whole new set of Halo pros to enter the scene with Infinite on PC and wipe away the current set of console pros, it's legitimately boring seeing the same faces year after year and the same team winning over and over again with a tiny audience and prize pool, competitive Halo just simply isn't worth watching anymore and that's why no one does. Despite what Infinite plays like I'm ready to see a bunch of fresh faces enter the scene, the current pros are boring beyond belief and have outstayed their welcome.

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1 hour ago, Mow said:

Honestly I'm ready for a whole new set of Halo pros to enter the scene with Infinite on PC and wipe away the current set of console pros, it's legitimately boring seeing the same faces year after year and the same team winning over and over again with a tiny audience and prize pool, competitive Halo just simply isn't worth watching anymore and that's why no one does. Despite what Infinite plays like I'm ready to see a bunch of fresh faces enter the scene, the current pros are boring beyond belief and have outstayed their welcome.

There are plenty of fresh faces at the top. Also, most competitive leagues are this way

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46 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

There are plenty of fresh faces at the top. Also, most competitive leagues are this way

Guess I'm just bored of the current state of competitive Halo. Tiny prizepools, tiny viewership, same faces winning every single time, why even tune in? I'm ready for something new, even if that means competitve Halo moving to PC and a whole new roster of pros, I'll be pissed if aim assist isn't balanced correctly and controller dominates in the pro scene and then we see the same old faces again. It's time for Halo to grow again, it has spent enough time being strangleheld by console.

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8 hours ago, xSociety said:

I'd rather play H3 for the rest of time than ever play H5 again. H5 is a total shit-show. At least H3 is manageable and the PC MCC version is the best it's ever been.

Hit reg is still worse than og a lot of the time but yeah in general I agree.

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Tbh if Infinite has a server browser and proper mod support does it matter what the base settings are if a team of people who really care could probably just mod the settings, weapons, and create maps to make the ideal Halo game?

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15 hours ago, Boyo said:

Here’s what I am wondering.  The Plasma Pistol fires both its primary fire plasma bolts as well as its secondary fire, overcharge shot with RT.  Is this in line with our stated goal of “most utility and freedom with least amount of controller input”?  On one hand, you could say yes, the PP has all these functions packed onto a single button so you are getting lots of utility out of one button but what about freedom?  You could argue that the player would have more freedom if these attacks were activated by their own independent buttons, because primary fire bolts could be fired on trigger-pull instead of trigger-release (because the game normally needs a moment to figure out if you are trying to activate primary fire or secondary fire with RT).

I would say that if the option to switch between firing modes could be available without someone having to move their thumbs than that would be a case where an additional option would work (especially if it were a feature with most weapons). I think with Halo a lot of the decisions in this regard should come down to what abilities/inputs are prioritized. I think the plasma pistol works the way it is right now because the ability to switch between firing modes at will is outweighed by everything you can do instead of that. 

I find it interesting how pretty much every time someone spawns into the game in Halo 5 they are tapping sprint to "get into the action" faster. That is valuable real estate on the controller and you are wasting it on something that should inherently be built into the game's design. Remover that and you can replace it with an actually interesting mechanic. I'm sure you yourself could think of any number of things to assign to the sprint button that would actually add the the game. 

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