Jump to content
CyReN

Halo Infinite Discussion

Recommended Posts

Why not all 3 bullets....?

 

Sure, why not. 1-2 I think would necessitate the player being more precise, but three could certainly work well on a controller. 

Share this post


Link to post

Lmao, the H3 BR is a 4sk. I only laugh because I understand how anyone would think it's not, given the combination of random spread and dogshit hit registration.

But yeah, H3 BR with no spread and dedicated servers would be a fun starting weapon. Not my ideal starting weapon, but definitely fun.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Lmao, the H3 BR is a 4sk. I only laugh because I understand how anyone would think it's not, given the combination of random spread and dogshit hit registration.

 

But yeah, H3 BR with no spread and dedicated servers would be a fun starting weapon. Not my ideal starting weapon, but definitely fun.

 

Yeah lol, in normal H3 BR matches 4sk's feel like luck more than skill half the time. 

 

Have't people been testing the CE pistol with no spread? How has that been going? I've always assumes it would play great, and make maps like Hang'em play even better. 

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah lol, in normal H3 BR matches 4sk's feel like luck more than skill half the time.

 

Have't people been testing the CE pistol with no spread? How has that been going? I've always assumes it would play great, and make maps like Hang'em play even better.

To be perfectly honest I didn’t notice much of a difference. If you have red reticle then you’ll get bullet magnetism, which negates a fair amount of the spread anyways. And there are very few ranges where you can’t get RR with a zoom. I guess it makes unscoped crossmaps more consistent, but I usually try to get RR even if I’m getting shot at. And I imagine it helps no scopes with the sniper a lot as well, but I’m so conditioned to almost never go for them in H1 that I didn’t test it much when I played it in May at Dman’s LAN.

Share this post


Link to post

I won't say cutscenes are bad when used properly. Using them too often, especially when it's not necessary to do so, is awful though. Ironically games like Half Life and Bioshock manage to have more storytelling than games like CoD while using almost no cutscenes at all. Because in most cases you can just as effectively deliver story through dialogue, scenery details, etc. that don't pull the player out of interacting with the rest of the game.

 

I think where the modern campaign shooter really falls apart though is in level, sandbox, and enemy design, which is something he only briefly mentions.

 

Every good campaign shooter I can think of has:

-Thought provoking level design. Could be non-linear pathing. Could just be something simple like the presence of puzzles.

-A tiered sandbox with weak-but-readily-available tools and powerful-but-hard-to-maintain tools. This forces the player to make thoughtful use of their gear and adds another level of depth to the game. Also makes difficulty less static and gives them some reasonable control over it.

-Varied enemies with unique attacks, health, AI, etc.

 

Quake, Half Life, Resident Evil 4, Left 4 Dead, Bioshock, Halo...all very different games yet they share many of these common points.

 

Call of Duty fails on literally all of these points. Bland and linear levels. Every weapon you can obtain is extremely powerful, extremely versatile and has tons of ammo so there's no thought put into it. Enemies are all generic hitscan military doods with no real room for counterplay and not very difficult to take down either.

. Can you really say halo has these? I mean halo decided to do the occasional bullet sponge method when it came to playing legendary, and have very little ammo(this annoyed me).

Share this post


Link to post

Lmao, the H3 BR is a 4sk. I only laugh because I understand how anyone would think it's not, given the combination of random spread and dogshit hit registration.

 

But yeah, H3 BR with no spread and dedicated servers would be a fun starting weapon. Not my ideal starting weapon, but definitely fun.

For a while I thought that the launch H4 5sk BR was actually a 4sk, just like H3, because both were consistent 5-shots!

Share this post


Link to post

If anything, I believe that he would at least be talking about Halo CE.

 

Bullet sponges aren't anywhere as bad here with so many hard ping mechanics(headshots, sticks, backsmacks, vehicle bumping, noob combos, Needler pincushions) to instantly kill stuff, and even then, just straight burning them down is still usually a viable option, especially with close range weapons.

 

Even the AR is effective in CE Legendary as you can actually rush and 1v1 any Elite that isn't Gold and still survive since they can't instantly melt you and their melees are dodgable. It helps that the AR has a huge 60 round mag with a whopping 600 max reserve ammo cap too. That kind of empowering ammo capacity applies to the other CE weapons too.

 

It is ever since Halo 2 that the gameplay has been awful on Legendary, with more enemies becoming bigger bullet sponges that, even worse, instantly melt you. Then you have like no ammo for weapons, with the BR always having only 108 reserve shots (just 36 bursts, like the Light Rifle, vs the CE Magnum's 120 reserve semi-auto shots), the SMG having only 180 reserve shots, and the AR only having a 32-36 round mag with just over 200 shots in reserve. So not only is gameplay reduced to lame peek-shooting, but you are also constantly reloading and out of ammo.

 

Now, by the time we get to H5, sticking a Blue Elite doesn't kill it anymore(nor can you snipe them in one shot), you can't Splatter Promethean Knights with vehicles, grenades(which you only get 2 of before you forget about them) have absolutely zero blast radius making them useless against crowds of Grunts and especially Jackals, and Hunters are now OP bosses that instantly melee kill you if you try to get behind them at their weakpoint solo, since they no longer have slowness as a weakness to exploit. And even your paper vehicles get shredded by Plasma Pistols that also perma-EMP you. All of this on Legendary against enemies that now just sit there, let you shoot them, but then melt you back anyways. In CE Elites actually strafe. Halo campaigns nowadays are garbage, it honestly ain't even just the MP.

 

Went off on a bit of a rant...

 

Sticking actually does kill elites in Halo 5. Reach and Halo 4 are the games where it doesn't work. So they got that right at least.

 

Regarding knights, I'd love to hear an explanation for how they can swat wraiths halfway across the map like tennis balls. I tried to splatter one of them in WZFF and not only did it do not damage, he fucking threw my ass 50 feet in the air with enough force to make my tank spin like a fucking dradle. Then he killed me because while my now-flaming wraith was still break dancing in front of the Temple, he charged up his douchebag cannon for a free shot. Balanced video game.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

If anything, I believe that he would at least be talking about Halo CE.

 

In most cases I usually am, yeah.  Ce was at the back of my mind writing this though it still applies to some other Halo campaigns.

 

. Can you really say halo has these? I mean halo decided to do the occasional bullet sponge method when it came to playing legendary, and have very little ammo(this annoyed me).

 

Enemy Variety and Depth - Oh yes, absolutely.  This is the one unique strongpoint Halo has over most other games.  Grunts, Elites, Jackals, Jackal Snipers, Drones, Hunters, Flood...all very different enemies that require generally different approaches to defeat.

 

Interesting Level Designs - Halo Ce and to a lesser extent Halo 3 are pretty good in this area.  Not winning any awards though.  The other games...yeah completely linear.

 

My points about sandbox design - Sort of, bit of a weak point with the franchise.  Powerups are present in the early games even if they become rarer in later entries.  The main precision gun is powerful and has tons of ammo but there are still situations where it's weak and you're encouraged to use limited alternatives.  Ex.  it's not the best choice against Elites or Flood forms that tank bodyshots, better off using Plasma Weapons or Shotguns to deal with them, respectively.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Favyn’s new video can basically be summarized in one quote: “It is important that we understand that style will only work if the burden of innovation is adequately accounted for in the other aspects of the game.” It’s not necessarily innovation that’s important, it’s optimization. Everything that should be done to improve the gameplay (including the overall sandbox, map design, and movement) can be found in classic halo, even if those games could’ve been improved. Unfortunately, there has been no positive outcome in 343’s attempt to either recreate or even remaster the original games with classic gameplay.

 

One thing’s for sure; the beta will once again be a crucial period in which we see how 343 incorporates our feedback in Halo: Infinite, for better or worse.

Share this post


Link to post

Ok guys, i had an idea about sprint.  Someone tell me that this is a bad idea (or if its been posited before).

 

  • Basically, sprint exists as an "Extended acceleration". 
  • There is no button press required.
  • It is a toggle-able option for custom games.
  • It is OFF by default in matchmaking for all maps created for team sizes smaller than 8v8
  • On maps where it is ON, holding your movement stick straight forward for 3 seconds ramps up a second acceleration that gets you up to 120% base movement speed.
  • There are particle effects on the edges of the screen and arm animations showing a larger gun sway since the only reason for this is to make people feel zoomie but you NEVER actually put your gun down
  • On being shot, you drop back down to 100% movement speed
  • There is no delay to shooting, but scoping or shooting drops you down to 100% BMS.

 

Basically, this is only intended to allow you to move faster across open spaces and give players the feeling of moving faster.  The exact implementation for top speed and delay could be tweaked but requiring another button press or putting your gun down is a non-starter for negotiations.  It can't be this easy. someone tell me why this is still bad..??

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Ok guys, i had an idea about sprint.  Someone tell me that this is a bad idea (or if its been posited before).

 

  • Basically, sprint exists as an "Extended acceleration". 
  • There is no button press required.
  • It is a toggle-able option for custom games.
  • It is OFF by default in matchmaking for all maps created for team sizes smaller than 8v8
  • On maps where it is ON, holding your movement stick straight forward for 3 seconds ramps up a second acceleration that gets you up to 120% base movement speed.
  • There are particle effects on the edges of the screen and arm animations showing a larger gun sway since the only reason for this is to make people feel zoomie but you NEVER actually put your gun down
  • On being shot, you drop back down to 100% movement speed
  • There is no delay to shooting, but scoping or shooting drops you down to 100% BMS.

 

Basically, this is only intended to allow you to move faster across open spaces and give players the feeling of moving faster.  The exact implementation for top speed and delay could be tweaked but requiring another button press or putting your gun down is a non-starter for negotiations.  It can't be this easy. someone tell me why this is still bad..??

 

The final result is still varied speeds that would have to be accounted for in sandbox balancing and map design.

 

No Sprint, 1, Universal constant speed is literally all we need. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. 

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

Some people think the classic art style in the tech demo means that Infinite will have classic gameplay. That’s a doubly optimistic view: first, that enhanced mobility is gone; second, that 343 can properly deliver on this. My thoughts aren’t related to Favyn’s recent video, but I do recommend you check that out as it’s a good watch. I’ve been thinking recently about 343’s track record with classic gameplay, trying to figure out what we would most likely get considering past offerings. Here is the list of 343’s record with the classics.

  • Reach, CE Anniversary: the pistol has bloom and a Reach-level of auto aim. No attempt to make the strafe not be sluggish.
  • Halo 4 Legendary Slayer: sprint still exists. Originally AR starts, if I recall, leading to absurd snowballing. BR still has spread and high auto aim.
  • Halo 2 Anniversary: sluggish strafe compared to the original. Just as high bullet magnetism despite modern connection speeds and a modern netcode. Grenade hitmarkers and indicators!
  • Halo CE on MCC: actually a rip of Halo PC, which completely gutted the original weapon sandbox.
  • Halo 5, CE Throwback: the pistol has bloom and a Halo 5 level of auto aim. Spartan abilities included. Strafing unmodified.
  • Halo 5, H3 Throwback: Spartan abilities removed, but base movement speed decreased. Battle Rifle magnetism original at stock Halo 5 levels, subsequently decreased with introduction of classic random spread.

Am I missing anything? Let’s not forget that Halo 5 itself was pitched as a return to form, with “equal starts.” The question is, if we do get a “classic” Halo in Infinite, will it be the crucial step the franchise desperately needs, or will it be another snorefest of a game with the same basic set of cookie-cutter aimbot weapons.

 

Their track record doesn't inspire hope.

Four of those are re-imaginings in certain games that by default feel radically different to the games they're emulating. They're not 1:1s, not exactly "intended" to be, and wouldn't be, even if we tried. Kinda disingenuous, especially when these games boil down to more than just your basic actions and weapons. H3 Throwback doesn't have equipment for example. Not accurate to the original. Could go on. 

 

I'm not exactly hinging on the idea they're going full classic for Infinite, and wanna see more on the game's gameplay, buuuuuuuuuut yeah.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Four of those are re-imaginings in certain games that by default feel radically different to the games they're emulating. They're not 1:1s, not exactly "intended" to be, and wouldn't be, even if we tried. Kinda disingenuous, especially when these games boil down to more than just your basic actions and weapons. H3 Throwback doesn't have equipment for example. Not accurate to the original. Could go on. 

 

I'm not exactly hinging on the idea they're going full classic for Infinite, and wanna see more on the game's gameplay, buuuuuuuuuut yeah.

 

 

 

CEA does count fully IMO. It was their conscious decision to not remaster the MP and they saw a modified Reach with some maps as a valid substitude for CE's MP. And they didn't even ship the OG MP with the remake, the Reach CEA stuff 100% replaces it.

 

And it's not that Legendary and H5's CE/H3 playlists are too much like H4 and H5 respectively, the problem is that 343 didn't go all the way with the tools they had.

It IS possible to disable sprint in H4 with the Megalo scripting stuff, so 100% 343 could have done it. They decided to turn the CE pistol into a fucking joke REQ weapon in H5. They decided that the ability cancer should be in the CE playlist. They decided that H3 needs slower base movement than H5 (lmao) AND that the nade radius shouldn't be changed.

Bottom line, the have zero respect or understanding of what makes a classic Halo with what has been shown so far. So even if they are making a real Halo game with Infinite - which they are very likely not - then it's extremely probable that that game is going to be awful, because they have no idea what they are doing. And this is just gameplay. They also have no idea how to design a functioning UI, effective matchmaking and ranking systems or even basic functionality like netcode and server stability.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

Some people think the classic art style in the tech demo means that Infinite will have classic gameplay. That’s a doubly optimistic view: first, that enhanced mobility is gone; second, that 343 can properly deliver on this. My thoughts aren’t related to Favyn’s recent video, but I do recommend you check that out as it’s a good watch. I’ve been thinking recently about 343’s track record with classic gameplay, trying to figure out what we would most likely get considering past offerings. Here is the list of 343’s record with the classics.

  • Reach, CE Anniversary: the pistol has bloom and a Reach-level of auto aim. No attempt to make the strafe not be sluggish.
  • Halo 4 Legendary Slayer: sprint still exists. Originally AR starts, if I recall, leading to absurd snowballing. BR still has spread and high auto aim.
  • Halo 2 Anniversary: sluggish strafe compared to the original. Just as high bullet magnetism despite modern connection speeds and a modern netcode. Grenade hitmarkers and indicators!
  • Halo CE on MCC: actually a rip of Halo PC, which completely gutted the original weapon sandbox.
  • Halo 5, CE Throwback: the pistol has bloom and a Halo 5 level of auto aim. Spartan abilities included. Strafing unmodified.
  • Halo 5, H3 Throwback: Spartan abilities removed, but base movement speed decreased. Battle Rifle magnetism original at stock Halo 5 levels, subsequently decreased with introduction of classic random spread.
Am I missing anything? Let’s not forget that Halo 5 itself was pitched as a return to form, with “equal starts.” The question is, if we do get a “classic” Halo in Infinite, will it be the crucial step the franchise desperately needs, or will it be another snorefest of a game with the same basic set of cookie-cutter aimbot weapons.

 

Their track record doesn't inspire hope.

the reach anniversary pistol doesn't actually bloom out. It just has really odd spread. For whatever reason the bloom reticle effect was left in. Not sure why.

Share this post


Link to post

Four of those are re-imaginings in certain games that by default feel radically different to the games they're emulating. They're not 1:1s, not exactly "intended" to be, and wouldn't be, even if we tried. Kinda disingenuous, especially when these games boil down to more than just your basic actions and weapons. H3 Throwback doesn't have equipment for example. Not accurate to the original. Could go on.

 

I'm not exactly hinging on the idea they're going full classic for Infinite, and wanna see more on the game's gameplay, buuuuuuuuuut yeah.

 

 

I wouldn’t call it disingenuous since all I’ve done is look for something encouraging in their history. No dice. Regardless of how close to classic they intended the experiences to be, there hasn’t been a true success in any of their attempts. I would at least expect them to show even a little attention to detail with the weapons. I’ve given them the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things so far. There’s just no reason to at this point, since I don’t think they’ve ever understood what people enjoy about the old games. We’ll see what happens, but the hype train is not leaving the station on my watch.

Share this post


Link to post

It is ever since Halo 2 that the gameplay has been awful on Legendary, with more enemies becoming bigger bullet sponges that, even worse, instantly melt you. Then you have like no ammo for weapons, with the BR always having only 108 reserve shots (just 36 bursts, like the Light Rifle, vs the CE Magnum's 120 reserve semi-auto shots), the SMG having only 180 reserve shots, and the AR only having a 32-36 round mag with just over 200 shots in reserve. So not only is gameplay reduced to lame peek-shooting, but you are also constantly reloading and out of ammo.

 

This is a really good point. 

 

"I've never felt this powerful as a Spartan" and all those type of comments for Halo 5 come from people that haven't played Legendary much. You have to use the abilities to move from cover to cover mostly. Halo 1 you feel like an absolute tank spraying 600 rounds down range and following it up with heavy melees.

 

Also in Halo 1 it had suuuuper simple stealth areas but it was possible to completely clear an area without firing a bullet. Never had that in a later Halo game.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

This is a really good point.

 

"I've never felt this powerful as a Spartan" and all those type of comments for Halo 5 come from people that haven't played Legendary much. You have to use the abilities to move from cover to cover mostly. Halo 1 you feel like an absolute tank spraying 600 rounds down range and following it up with heavy melees.

 

Also in Halo 1 it had suuuuper simple stealth areas but it was possible to completely clear an area without firing a bullet. Never had that in a later Halo game.

tbh that’s bad game design if you can finish a mission without firing a single shot
  • Downvote (-1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

tbh that’s bad game design if you can finish a mission without firing a single shot

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

tbh that’s bad game design if you can finish a mission without firing a single shot

Have you played Halo 1?

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.