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Problem with the "classic" crowd that's informing 343i of what to and what not to, is that said crowd's too big.

Over 90% of the "classic" crowd can't tell you a meaningful difference between HCE and H2's mechanics outside of "pistol OP lel". They simultaneously think that HCE, H2, and H3 (some of the particularly stupid ones will include Reach in that list) are faultless games, identical in most regards. 

343i (assuming they don't stay fixated on their artistic sprin-oops, vision for Halo), have these utter morons informing their choices and decisions regarding the mechanics and design of Infinite. 

It's frustrating too, because all the blueprints for a great competitive multiplayer are laid out right in front of them. 

 

HCE: Weapon spawn system and pace, grenade tricks, TTK, sandbox inspiration,  elements of the melee system, powerup and power weapon physics, slightly modified 2v2 spawn system for general use, zero magnetism, and map design. 

H2: Movement speed, strafe acceleration, jump height, player traction, map accessibility via jumps, elements of CQC, button glitches, ranking system, etc.

H3: Map aesthetics, jump height, and elements of sandbox design. 

 

Doing this with the conveniences of later Halo games, (Reach and 5's respective forge modes), 5's customs browser, Reach and 3's UI, Reach progression system, 5's rotational playlists and abundant casual modes, having decent maps + ranked playlists on launch, mod support + general PC game modularity, and a high-level tutorial for MP would make the game an instant gem, and keep it relevant for several years, maybe even the decade to come. 

Instead, we're gonna get a Titanfall-Halo 5 bastard of a game, and the campaign monkeys are gonna cream themselves over it because it's got a Halo 3 coat of paint. 

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

Problem with the "classic" crowd that's informing 343i of what to and what not to, is that said crowd's too big.

what

1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

Over 90% of the "classic" crowd can't tell you a meaningful difference between HCE and H2's mechanics outside of "pistol OP lel".

Where did you even come across this thinking? Total bollocks.

1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

They simultaneously think that HCE, H2, and H3 (some of the particularly stupid ones will include Reach in that list) are faultless games, identical in most regards. 

Once again, total bollocks. Where are you even getting these thoughts from?

1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

It's frustrating too, because all the blueprints for a great competitive multiplayer are laid out right in front of them. 

You realise that's why classic fans want classic right?

1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

Doing this with the conveniences of later Halo games, (Reach and 5's respective forge modes), 5's customs browser, Reach and 3's UI, Reach progression system, 5's rotational playlists and abundant casual modes, having decent maps + ranked playlists on launch, mod support + general PC game modularity, and a high-level tutorial for MP would make the game an instant gem, and keep it relevant for several years, maybe even the decade to come. 

Once again, this is what classic fans want and have asked for since 2010. They want a refined and expanded version of their favorite Halo, be it 1, 2 or 3. Not this garbage "we'll make a brand new one!1!!!1!" every time.

2 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Instead, we're gonna get a Titanfall-Halo 5 bastard of a game, and the campaign monkeys are gonna cream themselves over it because it's got a Halo 3 coat of paint. 

So we've gone from "classic crowd can't tell you a meaningful difference between HCE and H2's mechanics" to "classic crown also can't tell the difference between Halo 3 and Halo 5 if they have the same coat of paint". 

Jesus christ dude what was even the point you were trying to get across? 

 

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Spend enough time on reddit, or social media in general, and see enough "I started with CE..." posts by total posers that don't know shit about each game, and his post makes a little more sense. I see a lot of people that claim to be classic Halo fans that are extremely ignorant about the games.

They probably did play back in the day, but often it was just one of the games, or just a couple hundred games in each. In CE's case most people talk from a 1-2 LAN base of experience against garbage players playing garbage settings. And all this was 10 or more years ago so they forgot what little they ever knew. The things he's referring to are actually quite common in my experience. A lot of classic fans' experience is both lacking in substance and poorly remembered. But that doesn't stop them from speaking up about shit they don't know anything about.

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4 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Spend enough time on reddit, or social media in general

Yeah I don't do either of those because both make me want to die.

4 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

But that doesn't stop them from speaking up about shit they don't know anything about.

Classic humans.

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19 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

what

Where did you even come across this thinking? Total bollocks.

Once again, total bollocks. Where are you even getting these thoughts from?

You realise that's why classic fans want classic right?

Once again, this is what classic fans want and have asked for since 2010. They want a refined and expanded version of their favorite Halo, be it 1, 2 or 3. Not this garbage "we'll make a brand new one!1!!!1!" every time.

So we've gone from "classic crowd can't tell you a meaningful difference between HCE and H2's mechanics" to "classic crown also can't tell the difference between Halo 3 and Halo 5 if they have the same coat of paint". 

Jesus christ dude what was even the point you were trying to get across? 

 

Was a bit pissed off when I typed my rant lol. Didn't really expect a reply. 

Dude, I'm not talking about the classic crowd native to this forum. I'm talking about the reddit zombies who think AR starts in BTB is balanced, or that CE has an OP pistol, whilst simultaneously clamouring for a return to "classic" Halo. "Classic Halo" doesn't really specify anything gameplay-wise other than (kind of) movement, and developer. The differences in between each game in the trilogy is too large to shove them all under the label of "classic". If anything, you do each of those games a disservice by doing that. 

The people I refer to have the vaguest idea of what they find enjoyable in Halo, and expect 343i to miraculously meet their nebulous expectations. Classic fans don't acknowledge any mechanics that they want at all lol, it's always something stupid like art style, singleplayer, or something equivalent. Go to r/Halo and ask the average schmuck who champions "classic" gameplay the differences in spawn system between HCE, H2, and H3, as well as the one he prefers. You'll be unpleasantly surprised by the lack of knowledge and understanding surrounding the games' mechanics. 

You're thinking of a hyper-specific subset of classic fans, lol. If this were the case, the 400K or so people at r/Halo wouldn't advocate for stupid mechanics or bury legitimate discussion under a pile of infection clips. 

My last part was a bit of an exaggeration, but it was in referral to the comical amounts of hype surrounding Infinite, when we know nothing about the game other than that 343i's making the disastrously nebulous decision of listening to  "classic" fans. 

My point is that the average classic fan doesn't know nearly enough about the games to make a clear judgement, much less signal to 343i. 

There's nothing wrong with having fun in BTB, SWAT, Infection, Grifball, or whatever. However, the game shouldn't turn into a barely competitive Mario-Party-with-guns type of deal, like Reach or MCC. 

 

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4 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

I'm talking about the reddit zombies who think AR starts in BTB is balanced

Lol. This alone made me think you might be right. Can't believe this happened. I try to never reddit and certainly never waypoint because it's just dust and echoes in there. There are videos with hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube detailing why 343's direction (on everything) is trash. Some of them have millions of views.

This in addition to dwindling Halo 5 population makes me assume that the "classic" Halo fans are never on reddit. 

 

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I just wish we could have a randomized test attached to each survey they send regarding game mechanics.

I want to see the stats of the clearly informed feedback vs that of people who seemingly don't know how anything works. The clever person compiling that information could draw a lot of conclusions about what information needs to be more clearly conveyed to people playing the game and also any really critical feedback where both parties overlap. It would be so much more valuable than random shit posted on twitter or other platforms. Understanding the person who is giving you feedback is often a lot more important than people realize because it can really help you frame said feedback appropriately and determine who its relevant to and why

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I'm almost so desperate for a fresh Halo game I don't care if it's Halo 5 v2. As long as it's not Halo 4. Just give me something.

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4 hours ago, Exidrion said:

I'm almost so desperate for a fresh Halo game I don't care if it's Halo 5 v2. As long as it's not Halo 4. Just give me something.

Genuinely not trying to argue with you because I feel the same way partially, but this sentiment is part of the problem. We should expect "Good" Halo, not just anything our corporate overlords care to poop out when the deadline comes. I think this IP and franchise deserves that type fo respect. They should have mostly free reign in regards to Campaign and casual multiplayer, but Halo needs to find an identity (that works) form a competitive standpoint, and stick to it.

 

5 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

I just wish we could have a randomized test attached to each survey they send regarding game mechanics.

I want to see the stats of the clearly informed feedback vs that of people who seemingly don't know how anything works. The clever person compiling that information could draw a lot of conclusions about what information needs to be more clearly conveyed to people playing the game and also any really critical feedback where both parties overlap. It would be so much more valuable than random shit posted on twitter or other platforms. Understanding the person who is giving you feedback is often a lot more important than people realize because it can really help you frame said feedback appropriately and determine who its relevant to and why

I haven't answered a survey they have sent out in years. I would assume there are so many lapsed Halo fans (that own PC's and are still interested in the franchise) that any survey they have sent out in the last year or so asking what the "community" wants is pretty much a joke. 

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Brute Base Traits in Invasion 

 

RT - Fire

LT - Scope, Alternate Fire

RB - Armor Ability 1 

LB - Armor Ability 2 

A - Jump 

B - Throw grenade 

X - Reload 

Y - Switch weapons 

L3 - Crouch 

R3 - Melee 

 

LB lunges a short distance in the direction the user is aiming.  

While grounded, RB high jumps.  While airborne, RB performs a Ground Stomp that shoots the player down to ground, in the direction of his reticle, damaging whatever he lands on with a near instant recovery time.  

While airborne, holding RB causes the player to hover and displays a flat targeting reticle that can be slid along the ground using the Left Thumbstick.  Releasing RB performs a Ground Stomp.  

While grounded, rather than performing a standard crouch, L3 activates Berserker.  This causes the player model to hunch forward and shield its head with its right hand.*  A berserker gains an increased damage resistance to bodyshots and melee strikes but loses the ability to perform any non-melee attacks.  Movement speed is unaffected.  

While airborne and facing a proximate ledge, the A button causes the user to clamber up it, briefly lowering his weapon in the process.  

 

*Captains and Chieftains have a deployable Jackal Shield built into their right forearm armor that is automatically activated while berserking, providing the officer with increased protection from headshots.  A team of nine brutes has two captains and one chieftain.  Players with lower quit percentages have a better chance at being spawned as an officer.  

Chieftains spawn with an unlimited ammo, undroppable Gravity Hammer that is only holstered when two other weapons are picked up.  Holding Y drops the third weapon and re equips the Gravity Hammer.  

While the Gravity Hammer is equipped, RT performs an overhead smash, damaging and knocking proximate players back.  LT creates a rapidly expanding sphere that reflects incoming projectiles and live grenades but disappears once past close range.  R3 pulls proximate pick ups to the user, attracting nearby weapons, power ups, and objectives.  

Attracted objectives become attached to the hammer.  Carrying an attached objective does not affect the player’s ability to move, attack, or switch weapons.  Attached objectives are treated like a Speedflag but can be dropped by holding X with the hammer equipped.  

 

Players can carry up to three sets of armor abilities.  Left and Right on the D pad cycle back and forward through the user’s available sets of armor abilities.  Captains spawn with two sets of armor abilities and Chieftains spawn with three sets.  

In addition to Gravity Gauntlet (lunge) and Gravity Boots (high jump), Captains can switch to Power Drain and Grenade Launcher.  The Power Drain and Grenade Launcher have relatively long cooldowns compared to base level armor abilities like Gravity Gauntlet and Gravity Boots. 

Chieftains have those two sets of armor abilities as well as the SAW (a single deployable item that requires both bumpers to operate).  The Spiked Assault Wheel gives the user remote control of a vehicle designed to splatter.  

The SAW is a large spiked wheel that always rolls forward, killing whatever players it rolls over or vehicles it boosts through.  The spiked outer rim is impervious to damage, only the broad sides of the wheel are vulnerable.  Gravity Bumpers are continuously emitted from the broad sides of the wheel.  These can push and flip players, objects, or vehicles that pass too closely by but they also limit the wheel’s turn radius.  

The wheel can be deployed with either LB or RB.  LB deploys the vehicle while remaining in first person player view.  RB transfers the user into third person vehicle view upon deployment (holding X returns to player view).  

Once deployed, LB turns left, RB turns right, and LB+RB boosts.  Long flames shoot out of the broad sides of the wheel while boosting. 

 

As far as weapons go, the six lowest ranking brutes spawn with a Spiker and a Mauler.  The two Captains spawn with a Tidal Rifle and a Spiker.  The Chieftain spawns with a Gravity Hammer and Gravity Bow.  Officers spawn with two Spike grenades, low ranking brutes spawn with one.  

 

 

Spike grenades release a small spherical explosion along with 12 spikes that are launched perpendicularly away from the stuck surface.  Spikes can penetrate impacted players and continue to ricochet off of hard surfaces up to three times.  The explosion is not strong enough to kill a fully shielded player so it is possible to survive being stuck.  On the other hand, 8 spike impacts will kill a fully shielded player. 

 

Mauler 

RT semi automatically fires a consistent, uniform, rapidly expanding spread of 7 pellets (6 outer pellets in the shape of hexagon with 1 pellet in the center).  14 pellets kill, meaning 2 point blank shots (0.6 seconds) or 3 close range shots (1.2 seconds).  If all 7 pellets land, 1 primary fire shot followed by a melee is lethal and can be performed nearly instantly.  

LT semi automatically fires explosive projectiles that kill in 3 direct impacts (1.2 seconds) or 5 indirect hits (3.0 seconds).  Bruteshot rounds begins dropping once past close-medium range.  They can ricochet once off a hard, angled surface or explode on direct impact.  Explosive knockback can launch the user upward if utilized correctly.  

X reloads the 5 round magazine.  Regardless of firemode, each shot consumes 1 round of ammunition.  

 

Spiker 

RT automatically fires projectiles that kill in 8 shots (0.7 seconds) but produce significant upward recoil and begin dropping once past medium range.  Spikes can ricochet off off hard, angled surfaces up to two times.  X reloads the 12 round magazine.  

LT fires the weapon’s mounted blade out on a retractable chain a short distance.  An impacted player is damaged and pulled to the user.  

 

Tidal Rifle 

RT semi automatically fires projectiles that kill in 6 shots (1.2 seconds) with a headshot or in 9 bodyshots (1.9 seconds).  X reloads the 18 round magazine.  The Tidal Rifle is unique in that primary fire is magazine fed while alternate fire is battery powered.  

LT alt fires a single large projectile that sticks to an impacted surface, player, or vehicle.  The Gravity Anchor drags down an impacted aerial vehicle, prevents a ground vehicle from becoming airborne, or disables a foot solider’s ability to jump.  A Gravity Anchor remains active until sufficient damage is dealt directly to the stuck projectile.  

Impacting a Gravity Anchor with a primary fire projectile creates a stationary Gravity Vortex that sucks things towards it and damages them.  The vortex can be created while the anchor is in flight or once it has stuck to something.  Stuck infantry are near instantly killed by the vortex.  Stuck vehicles are damaged throughout the duration of the vortex.  If an anchor is damaged by anything other than the Tidal Rifle’s primary fire, it is destroyed and simply disappears.  

3 alt fire shots kill (1.4 seconds) but each alt fire shot consumes 20% of the weapon’s battery.  While there is a 0.7 second fire delay between alt fire shots, there is only a 0.24 second fire delay between an alt fire shot and a primary fire shot.  1 alt fire shot followed by 3 primary fire shots (0.7 seconds) is lethal when the final shot is a headshot.  

 

Gravity Bow 

RT charges then fires a projectile that kills in 2 shots (0.6 seconds).  Impacted players and moveable objects are knocked back.  Impacted objective carriers drop the objective before being knocked back.  Light vehicles can be flipped and medium vehicles can be tipped over.  A quick charge up and no cooldown after firing cause the weapon to behave like a slow firing automatic weapon if the trigger is held down.  

LT semi automatically launches a short, wide, curved wave forward.  The expanding projectile kills in 3 hits (0.9 seconds) but disappears once past close range.  Impact disables the targets’ HUDs and causes objective carriers to drop the objective.  1 alt fire shot followed by 1 primary fire shot is lethal (0.3 seconds).  

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20 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Spend enough time on reddit, or social media in general, and see enough "I started with CE..." posts by total posers that don't know shit about each game, and his post makes a little more sense. I see a lot of people that claim to be classic Halo fans that are extremely ignorant about the games.

They probably did play back in the day, but often it was just one of the games, or just a couple hundred games in each. In CE's case most people talk from a 1-2 LAN base of experience against garbage players playing garbage settings. And all this was 10 or more years ago so they forgot what little they ever knew. The things he's referring to are actually quite common in my experience. A lot of classic fans' experience is both lacking in substance and poorly remembered. But that doesn't stop them from speaking up about shit they don't know anything about.

This is definitely the Halowaypoint special. 

"I started with CE and I think Halo 5 is by far the most competitive Halo because it's the most difficult to learn."

Any time I see that phrase I already know it's from someone who's maybe played 10 hours total of the game.

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21 hours ago, -DeucEy- said:

This is definitely the Halowaypoint special. 

"I started with CE and I think Halo 5 is by far the most competitive Halo because it's the most difficult to learn."

Any time I see that phrase I already know it's from someone who's maybe played 10 hours total of the game.

You know most people don’t play a game they don’t enjoy for more than an hour or two.

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23 hours ago, MrTummyTumms said:

The armor customization being like Doom 2016 would be really cool

Hold up. Can we agree that like h4, dooms multiplayer armors were ugly as anus?

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1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

Hold up. Can we agree that like h4, dooms multiplayer armors were ugly as anus?

Some good, some bad. But I think he meant the scope of the customization, which was on a level all to itself.

Fuck I love that game.

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5 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Some good, some bad. But I think he meant the scope of the customization, which was on a level all to itself.

Fuck I love that game.

The dirt/scratches option was probably my favorite. Also liked how the secondary color was actually visible and not just a subtle accent on the armor. 

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On 3/6/2020 at 8:54 PM, Snipe Three said:

I just wish we could have a randomized test attached to each survey they send regarding game mechanics.

I want to see the stats of the clearly informed feedback vs that of people who seemingly don't know how anything works. The clever person compiling that information could draw a lot of conclusions about what information needs to be more clearly conveyed to people playing the game and also any really critical feedback where both parties overlap. It would be so much more valuable than random shit posted on twitter or other platforms. Understanding the person who is giving you feedback is often a lot more important than people realize because it can really help you frame said feedback appropriately and determine who its relevant to and why

Might as well just make me lead dev

”what is the spread range for the halo3 br, halo2 br, and halo ce pistol.” Dont even think anyone on this forum knows off the top of their head. 
 

edit: fun fact, halo2 pre patch is worse than halo3. 

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9 minutes ago, Riddler said:

Might as well just make me lead dev

”what is the spread range for the halo3 br, halo2 br, and halo ce pistol.” Dont even think anyone on this forum knows off the top of their head. 

@Sitri

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1 hour ago, Riddler said:

Might as well just make me lead dev

”what is the spread range for the halo3 br, halo2 br, and halo ce pistol.” Dont even think anyone on this forum knows off the top of their head. 
 

edit: fun fact, halo2 pre patch is worse than halo3. 

The first bullet of the H3 BR and Reach DMR have the same amount of spread.

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6 hours ago, Riddler said:

Might as well just make me lead dev

”what is the spread range for the halo3 br, halo2 br, and halo ce pistol.” Dont even think anyone on this forum knows off the top of their head. 
 

edit: fun fact, halo2 pre patch is worse than halo3. 

I do. 

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9 hours ago, Riddler said:

Might as well just make me lead dev

”what is the spread range for the halo3 br, halo2 br, and halo ce pistol.” Dont even think anyone on this forum knows off the top of their head. 
 

edit: fun fact, halo2 pre patch is worse than halo3. 

Oh I don't even mean that detailed just general working knowledge of how to block/predict spawns, which systems are used to spawn power ups weapons in which game etc. You could easily shave tons of people off the list that believe they know whats up when it comes to complaining about spawns or weapon placement/timings and instead move into looking at why the casual players feel the way they do and why they don't understand rather than wasting time considering their balance suggestions that would never work due to not knowing how to game fundamentally works to begin with. A lot of the other stuff like H3 bullet spread is just general math competency mixed in with google results and common sense. Unfortunately devs have been lacking that with that game for about 13 years so they won't be any help there

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On 3/8/2020 at 2:33 PM, Mr Grim said:

Hold up. Can we agree that like h4, dooms multiplayer armors were ugly as anus?

Oh yeah some were definitely hideous, but I really liked how you could make your armor really scratched and dirty or make it look brand new. Think some of the options Doom had would work well with Halo.

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