Jump to content
CyReN

Halo Infinite Discussion

Recommended Posts

40 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I picture you being very loud in person, and interrupting a lot.

Not so much loud, but I’m very talkative. 

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 2/14/2020 at 7:47 AM, Boyo said:

The Grease Gun’s alternate fire can spray ledges down with low friction liquid, causing players to slip and fall when attempting to clamber.  

Does this grease gun resemble the actual m3 grease gun?

Share this post


Link to post

Abilities that raise tactical skill ceilings aren't necessarily better for the overall game. 

Though, I feel like the thruster is a more important issue. I personally enjoy the depth it adds to CQC. Especially with the ROF on Halo 5's pistol, a well timed + well directed thrust can be the difference between losing or winning a fight when you're two shots down. 

That being said, if they were to keep the thruster, it shouldn't be as dominant in strafing. Definitely not to the extent of H5, where the thrust is the strafe meta. 

Increase the BMS to around 130% that of Halo CE/2/3's, steepen the base player acceleration / deceleration curves (The metric I'll use here is the amount of time it takes to change the direction your spartan's moving in) to about twice that of Halo 2's, decrease the thrust distance to about 60%, but maintain the time spent thrusting and the inability to shoot while thrusting. 

I don't know how exactly to solve the ability to escape from fights that thrusters bring.  A quick solution would be to place conveniently located panels that would precisely bank grenades off them into specific corridors, raise the overall lethality of grenades, and to make pathways slightly more open and unforgiving as far as cover goes, though I don't like the aspect of quick escape as long as the opponent doesn't have a few frags to spare. 

  • WutFace (+0) 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Abilities that raise tactical skill ceilings aren't necessarily better for the overall game. 

Though, I feel like the thruster is a more important issue. I personally enjoy the depth it adds to CQC. Especially with the ROF on Halo 5's pistol, a well timed + well directed thrust can be the difference between losing or winning a fight when you're two shots down. 

That being said, if they were to keep the thruster, it shouldn't be as dominant in strafing. Definitely not to the extent of H5, where the thrust is the strafe meta. 

Increase the BMS to around 130% that of Halo CE/2/3's, steepen the base player acceleration / deceleration curves (The metric I'll use here is the amount of time it takes to change the direction your spartan's moving in) to about twice that of Halo 2's, decrease the thrust distance to about 60%, but maintain the time spent thrusting and the inability to shoot while thrusting. 

I don't know how exactly to solve the ability to escape from fights that thrusters bring.  A quick solution would be to place conveniently located panels that would precisely bank grenades off them into specific corridors, raise the overall lethality of grenades, and to make pathways slightly more open and unforgiving as far as cover goes, though I don't like the aspect of quick escape as long as the opponent doesn't have a few frags to spare. 

The BMS idea is rough. We had 130% strafe accel (to the default) in Evolved, and while it was "playable", it could also be very jank. STEEPENING that curve and increasing it will just make it feel worse.

Granted, my problem is the bunch of intangible changes. It's not exclusive to you, it happens a lot here, but random values irk me. Do you know how many world units thrust carries you? Do you know the 100% you're changing from, so you can accurately understand what a 60% decrease will do? Why not start by halving effectiveness, then go down a more extreme end. Why tilt it to an arbitrary 60% when a 10% decrease isn't gonna be noticeable. I don't like it when I guarantee you we don't fully understand what we're actually changing and what would need to change. Because you're not just changing movement, but maps, too. And weapon effectiveness. And grenades. And so on. It's why balancing Evolved was nutty. Because it isn't just movement.

Furthermore, why is thrust's ability to allow you to escape a problem? I'm not advocating for a game where you can just escape every fight, no harm, no foul. But escape isn't bad inherently. And counter play to mechanics, especially Halo's hard-decided, checkmate scenarios, isn't bad. Why not be able to escape or fully dodge a random, or poorly thrown, coincidental nuke nade. In older games, a fight can, and WILL be decided long before a fight begins because of this franchise's easiest spawn mechanic, lol. Because of a mix of ease of use and a lack of escape options. Why is that okay? Couple that point with your other point, because the last thing we need is to increase nade lethality while nuking movement. And this also doesn't count on chaining mechanics together, which offers its own benefits to some older style gameplay.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Running away is fine when there aren't abilities that encourage it specifically. Otherwise the games pacing and map design suffers.

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

The BMS idea is rough. We had 130% strafe accel (to the default) in Evolved, and while it was "playable", it could also be very jank. STEEPENING that curve and increasing it will just make it feel worse.

Granted, my problem is the bunch of intangible changes. It's not exclusive to you, it happens a lot here, but random values irk me. Do you know how many world units thrust carries you? Do you know the 100% you're changing from, so you can accurately understand what a 60% decrease will do? Why not start by halving effectiveness, then go down a more extreme end. Why tilt it to an arbitrary 60% when a 10% decrease isn't gonna be noticeable. I don't like it when I guarantee you we don't fully understand what we're actually changing and what would need to change. Because you're not just changing movement, but maps, too. And weapon effectiveness. And grenades. And so on. It's why balancing Evolved was nutty. Because it isn't just movement.

Furthermore, why is thrust's ability to allow you to escape a problem? I'm not advocating for a game where you can just escape every fight, no harm, no foul. But escape isn't bad inherently. And counter play to mechanics, especially Halo's hard-decided, checkmate scenarios, isn't bad. Why not be able to escape or fully dodge a random, or poorly thrown, coincidental nuke nade. In older games, a fight can, and WILL be decided long before a fight begins because of this franchise's easiest spawn mechanic, lol. Because of a mix of ease of use and a lack of escape options. Why is that okay? Couple that point with your other point, because the last thing we need is to increase nade lethality while nuking movement. And this also doesn't count on chaining mechanics together, which offers its own benefits to some older style gameplay.

What do you mean by jank? If anything, higher strafe acceleration and deceleration should reduce jank.

The description of thrust I made was *if* it were to be implemented in a future Halo game, not if it were to be re-designed for Halo 5. 

A thrust carries you the same distance as a slide, 8 meters. The core part of Halo that was affected by thrust was strafing, and so I selected an approximate multiple of 10 that would come closest to what I considered ideal. The order of multiples that we go down really doesn't matter, as long as the end result is the same (which it will be, provided there's only one person that's deciding). 

We already have a general idea of how effective a nerfed thrust would be, from the mythic playlists in H5. Even if not, it's not difficult to extrapolate how it would change the meta. 

This isn't something I would add to an existing Halo, but rather a mechanic to be considered from the ground up when future games are being designed, were they to have it. 

I hardly disagree with the ability to escape, but I find it too easy when all it takes is the press of a button. In general, allowing easier escape makes gameplay more passive - something I would dearly like to avoid. Games that carefully tailor their meta to encourage skilled offensive play are much more fun to play, as opposed to a perpetual virtual stalemate. Even stuff like the strongside is pretty cheap. 

I also hate CE's hand nukes, lol. "Increasing grenade lethality" meant a slightly larger damage radius and a higher throw arc, not a complete shift to CE's nukes. 

I advocate for a shift to higher BMS and higher strafe acceleration PRECISELY to reduce the amount of determinism in fights. I'm hardly opposed to the ability to evade poorly thrown grenades. Increasing Halo's dynamism at the tactical level is something I'm all for. I just don't think that it should be available for something as simple as a button click. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

What do you mean by jank? If anything, higher strafe acceleration and deceleration should reduce jank.

The description of thrust I made was *if* it were to be implemented in a future Halo game, not if it were to be re-designed for Halo 5. 

A thrust carries you the same distance as a slide, 8 meters. The core part of Halo that was affected by thrust was strafing, and so I selected an approximate multiple of 10 that would come closest to what I considered ideal. The order of multiples that we go down really doesn't matter, as long as the end result is the same (which it will be, provided there's only one person that's deciding). 

We already have a general idea of how effective a nerfed thrust would be, from the mythic playlists in H5. Even if not, it's not difficult to extrapolate how it would change the meta. 

This isn't something I would add to an existing Halo, but rather a mechanic to be considered from the ground up when future games are being designed, were they to have it. 

I hardly disagree with the ability to escape, but I find it too easy when all it takes is the press of a button. In general, allowing easier escape makes gameplay more passive - something I would dearly like to avoid. Games that carefully tailor their meta to encourage skilled offensive play are much more fun to play, as opposed to a perpetual virtual stalemate. Even stuff like the strongside is pretty cheap. 

I also hate CE's hand nukes, lol. "Increasing grenade lethality" meant a slightly larger damage radius and a higher throw arc, not a complete shift to CE's nukes. 

I advocate for a shift to higher BMS and higher strafe acceleration PRECISELY to reduce the amount of determinism in fights. I'm hardly opposed to the ability to evade poorly thrown grenades. Increasing Halo's dynamism at the tactical level is something I'm all for. I just don't think that it should be available for something as simple as a button click. 

My point on thrust wasn't inherent distance and knowing it. It was that changing it means more than just changing that distance. Throwing a number out there won't account for testing. I wasn't asking "how much is it" literally, the rest of the questions tied into it. It's rhetorical, and I'm pointing out it's not just about one thing. But Mythic sorta proves my point, and my problem here. Because that playlist is like they only tested it in a vacuum of arbitrary numbers based only on its escape utility, and nothing else.

The Mythic playlist's thrust may as well have not existed. It essentially acts as a jump now in this argument's context. Except it leaves someone fully defenseless when they can't fire, with little in the way of movement. One point of thrust is to break aim assist, and Mythic's didn't do that, especially with the easy H2BR. Another is to gain movement by chaining it with other mechanics. In Mythic, you can't properly jump peek with it, you can't reliably dodge a nade with it, it's not useful for momentum, locomotion is already accounted for with your movement, it actually hinders you in combat, and its cooldown wildly nukes its proper, repeated use. Which is what I speak on. Nuking its movement speed or distance, one trait, just to nullify its "escape potential" nukes five other more prominent things about it, here. One simple tweak. Nullifies an entire mechanic. Because it's not just about the mechanic, or one trait it has.

It's not a good way to show how it'd change the meta, because it's not a matter of it being nerfed and even being a part of the meta, it's a matter of us hitting the extreme end of the spectrum of compromise with something that exists in game for no actual reason. Basically as close as we can get to a placebo mechanic. People think it does something, when it does effectively nothing. We essentially have an idea of how H2 Throwback would play in Halo 5. That's about it. Nothing more. "Nerfed" and "unviably, forgettably useless" are not synonymous. And as I said, it shows changing this mechanic isn't so simple as altering distance and expecting it to work. 

Besides that, the oversimplification of "pressing a button to do X" can be applied to anything. "Just hit your headshot", "it's just pressing LB to jump", "it's just wiggling your stick back and forth". Strongsiding is literally just looking at the floor and actually breaks a hitbox so you can't hit a headshot. There's so much more to it than pressing your button. You don't thrust and escape automatically. You use your movement with your thrust to aid in escape. Play Halo 5, and try and escape solely by thrusting. Don't use anything else. Walk away and thrust. You basically just die tired. Escape doesn't come down to thrust solely. It's not that simple.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Abilities that raise tactical skill ceilings aren't necessarily better for the overall game. 

Though, I feel like the thruster is a more important issue. I personally enjoy the depth it adds to CQC. Especially with the ROF on Halo 5's pistol, a well timed + well directed thrust can be the difference between losing or winning a fight when you're two shots down. 

That being said, if they were to keep the thruster, it shouldn't be as dominant in strafing. Definitely not to the extent of H5, where the thrust is the strafe meta. 

Increase the BMS to around 130% that of Halo CE/2/3's, steepen the base player acceleration / deceleration curves (The metric I'll use here is the amount of time it takes to change the direction your spartan's moving in) to about twice that of Halo 2's, decrease the thrust distance to about 60%, but maintain the time spent thrusting and the inability to shoot while thrusting. 

I don't know how exactly to solve the ability to escape from fights that thrusters bring.  A quick solution would be to place conveniently located panels that would precisely bank grenades off them into specific corridors, raise the overall lethality of grenades, and to make pathways slightly more open and unforgiving as far as cover goes, though I don't like the aspect of quick escape as long as the opponent doesn't have a few frags to spare. 

Arena maps have to be designed for one movement speed; no sprint, no thrust as base traits.  Thruster can be a pick up in arena but if everyone has it all the time then as you said “make pathways slightly more open and unforgiving as far as cover goes” would be the natural direction to take the map design.  But because thruster works on a cooldown, the maps are only appropriately scaled when the player has his thruster available, and that’s not all the time.  

Making thruster a base trait across the board will inevitably affect the radius of a grenade’s explosion, the amount of sticky aim, and so many other factors.  I want thruster to make the user feel empowered, not just allow him to traverse the map as it was designed or be the one thing that can break an enemy’s red reticle.  Arena maps are designed around the base movement speed.  Sticky aim and such are designed around the base strafe speed.  Thruster as a pick up is an additional bonus on top of already well balanced base movement, aim assist, sandbox design and map design, not the thing they are all balanced around.  

Share this post


Link to post

A periscope allows the user to stand in one area while looking into another.  

 

Armor Ability:  Astral Projection 

LB creates a floating orb a short distance in front of the user and simultaneously transfers his view into it, as if the orb was now his head.  RB creates a floating orb a short distance above the user and simultaneously transfers his view into it.  While in orb view, the user can look around but not move or attack.  Damaging the orb disables it, causing it to disappear and return the user to player view.  

Before the user enters a room, he can peek inside.  Before the user takes a lift, like on Midship or Guardian gold, he can take a quick look-see above before committing to a route that removes his ability to move independently.  Ground cover, like a paintball field, could be looked through or looked over. 

Share this post


Link to post

I’ve never liked the fact thruster breaks aim assist. Umm excuse me, this is a console shooter, that’s a terrible balancing mechanic, especially if you take into account future pc releases with no aim assist so this wouldn’t effect those type of players. It shows me you literally couldn’t make this mechanic take skill to use without nerfing the thing controllers NEED, and that is aim assist. 

Share this post


Link to post
32 minutes ago, Arlong said:

I’ve never liked the fact thruster breaks aim assist. Umm excuse me, this is a console shooter, that’s a terrible balancing mechanic, especially if you take into account future pc releases with no aim assist so this wouldn’t effect those type of players. It shows me you literally couldn’t make this mechanic take skill to use without nerfing the thing controllers NEED, and that is aim assist. 

Then explain camo. 

Share this post


Link to post
28 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Then explain camo. 

That’s different. Your spartan can’t physically see camo, BUT if you hit the camo and make it visible, you get aim assist. That’s also not a base trait so it gets a little less shit for it.

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, Arlong said:

That’s different. Your spartan can’t physically see camo, BUT if you hit the camo and make it visible, you get aim assist. That’s also not a base trait so it gets a little less shit for it.

I didnt actually want to get into this. Just wanted to show you that making absolute claims is foolish. But I dont think you got my point so I'll extrapolate. 

You made baseless claims off the rip. You called it a terrible balance mechanic. Why is it terrible? Why is breaking red reticle bad? Halo historically has very easy guns. Where once you're on target you pretty much are guaranteed to make someone one shot without moving your stick. Being able to force another movement to on-track an enemy has tons of potential. 

Secondly, you mentioned how it's bad for PC balance because they dont have aim assist. So how does camo all of a sudden make sense? PC players will be able to shoot a camo player with the same difficulty no matter what. On console you have to hit 1 (or 2 in H5's case) shot to get ain assist back. But hitting that shot is rough. And time spent trying is usually time the enemy team spends collapsing on you. Every second matters. Not to mention enemies re-camoing if they manage to disengage for a hit. Camo is arguably the strongest powerup in Halo. Yet only controller players will be gimped in this scenario. And you say that's fine but thrust is garbage for that same feature because...reasons. You cant just change the logic lol. 

And lastly this piece right here:  "It shows me you literally couldn’t make this mechanic take skill to use without nerfing the thing controllers NEED, and that is aim assist" How in the worlddi you figure this? You really think they couldn't just have thrust not break aim assist? Plenty of games do it. Cod does it. Why do you assume they made this the design because they just couldnt balance it any other way, rather than it being simply their design decision. They easily could've made thrust act differently. They just went with how they wanted it to be. It's just weird to make a claim like that out of the blue lol. As if there's no other way you can balance thrust.  

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, My Namez BEAST said:

I didnt actually want to get into this. Just wanted to show you that making absolute claims is foolish. But I dont think you got my point so I'll extrapolate. 

You made baseless claims off the rip. You called it a terrible balance mechanic. Why is it terrible? Why is breaking red reticle bad? Halo historically has very easy guns. Where once you're on target you pretty much are guaranteed to make someone one shot without moving your stick. Being able to force another movement to on-track an enemy has tons of potential. 

Secondly, you mentioned how it's bad for PC balance because they dont have aim assist. So how does camo all of a sudden make sense? PC players will be able to shoot a camo player with the same difficulty no matter what. On console you have to hit 1 (or 2 in H5's case) shot to get ain assist back. But hitting that shot is rough. And time spent trying is usually time the enemy team spends collapsing on you. Every second matters. Not to mention enemies re-camoing if they manage to disengage for a hit. Camo is arguably the strongest powerup in Halo. Yet only controller players will be gimped in this scenario. And you say that's fine but thrust is garbage for that same feature because...reasons. You cant just change the logic lol. 

And lastly this piece right here:  "It shows me you literally couldn’t make this mechanic take skill to use without nerfing the thing controllers NEED, and that is aim assist" How in the worlddi you figure this? You really think they couldn't just have thrust not break aim assist? Plenty of games do it. Cod does it. Why do you assume they made this the design because they just couldnt balance it any other way, rather than it being simply their design decision. They easily could've made thrust act differently. They just went with how they wanted it to be. It's just weird to make a claim like that out of the blue lol. As if there's no other way you can balance thrust.  

1. Call of duty thruster doesn’t remove the aim assist tracking abilities. 
2.camo makes sense so people can flank easier, say get a back smack. I’m m they’re not meant to be completely unhittable. 
3. Halo has historically easy guns, ok that’s not completely true. Your average player can’t aim very well in halo, especially compared to other guns. It be pretty difficult to make someone like me, you, or someone who’s played halo for years on end to have real problems aiming on someone, so it’s not a fair comparison.

4. My logic is the fact the difference between camo and thruster is one is a power up, meant to provide an advantage, where one is a basic spawning trait. The problem with thruster removing aim assist causes clunky aiming, since now you as a player must perform some adjustments to counter this thruster pack. Let’s also not even mentioning how the moment someone thrust you can’t instantly react to it. There’s a 0.5ms delay to react to this, and though that doesn’t sound like much, it’s significant enough where it can decide whether you live or die.

5. YES thruster could still take skill if aim assist breaking wasn’t a thing. That isn’t needed.

Share this post


Link to post

Random tangent, but it'd be pretty cool if Halo Infinite dropped K/D/A as the primary scoreboard piece and adopted a comprehensive damage breakdown in place of it.

  • Damage by utility.
  • Damage by nades.
  • Damage by melee.
  • Damage by power weapons.

Break down those core four points, and have a deeper breakdown based on damage dealt to enemies, and damage taken. Along with shots fired in turn.

I think overall damage matters more than kills alone. Given it stands for the presence you lay down. Seen a few pro games where people top a Slayer (eugh) scoreboard, get praised to no end, and end up having shitty damage to their teammates. Likewise, I've also seen people get reamed for doing "terrible", when they have the most damage and presence of their team, it's just how the cookie crumbles that game. 

K/D tells me effectively nothing. Assists, and damage do.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Random tangent, but it'd be pretty cool if Halo Infinite dropped K/D/A as the primary scoreboard piece and adopted a comprehensive damage breakdown in place of it.

  • Damage by utility.
  • Damage by nades.
  • Damage by melee.
  • Damage by power weapons.

Break down those core four points, and have a deeper breakdown based on damage dealt to enemies, and damage taken. Along with shots fired in turn.

I think overall damage matters more than kills alone. Given it stands for the presence you lay down. Seen a few pro games where people top a Slayer (eugh) scoreboard, get praised to no end, and end up having shitty damage to their teammates. Likewise, I've also seen people get reamed for doing "terrible", when they have the most damage and presence of their team, it's just how the cookie crumbles that game. 

K/D tells me effectively nothing. Assists, and damage do.

I’d be cool with this. I also would prefer what overwatch has. It’s not kills but eliminations, which is basically assist but feels more rewarding 

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Arlong said:

I’d be cool with this. I also would prefer what overwatch has. It’s not kills but eliminations, which is basically assist but feels more rewarding 

you want a participation trophy with that?

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Salt (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

i think assists are fine enough. when i see a player with a lot of assists you know he helped the team

Share this post


Link to post

I agree with all of that. It's an extremely telling stat. Damage recovered would be another excellent stat.

I know it'd be controversial, but I wouldn't mind the "Kill" stat being renamed to "Last Hit". Then have "Solo Kills", "Assists", and "Critical Assists" (75%+ damage leading to a kill).

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Damage recovered would be another excellent stat.

Like if you were one shot but got your shields back, that would be a significant amount of “damage recovered”?  Is that what you mean?

4 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I wouldn't mind the "Kill" stat being renamed to "Last Hit".

Alright, now I think we’re getting into obscuring data to not hurt feelings territory.  What is the killfeed going to say?  Player 1 was last hit by Player 2?  

“How’d your interview go bro?”

”I last hitted it.”

  • Like (+1) 3
  • Fire (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Like if you were one shot but got your shields back, that would be a significant amount of “damage recovered”?  Is that what you mean?

Alright, now I think we’re getting into obscuring data to not hurt feelings territory.  What is the killfeed going to say?  Player 1 was last hit by Player 2?  

“How’d your interview go bro?”

”I last hitted it.”

Yes.

Killfeed can stay the same as it was in H5. That was perfect. I'm talking PGCR only. It has nothing to do with feelings, and everything to do with accurate verbiage. If you spawn behind a 1-shot and clean him up effortlessly, did you really kill him, or did you get the last hit on him? The victims screen can still say "you were killed by...". I don't give a shit about that.

Share this post


Link to post
46 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

If you spawn behind a 1-shot and clean him up effortlessly, did you really kill him

Yes.  Dealing the damage that causes an enemy to go from alive to dead is killing them.  

Critical Assists isn’t a bad idea for a more in depth carnage report.  Maybe roll damage dealt and some other relevant stats into a “Battlefield Presence” stat.  

Share this post


Link to post

Armor Ability:  Intel 

RB initiates a Thermal Scan that reveals recent enemy footprints.  LB activates a 3x magnification Spotting Scope.  While scoped, RB tags a targeted enemy with a waypoint visible to the team for 5 seconds.  

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, HeX Reapers said:

you want a participation trophy with that?

Some cake and ice cream will be fine but thank you.

Share this post


Link to post

You know what, I’m hoping 343 makes the advanced movement radar the default of halo. The radar is perfect for what it does. Giving you info based on if someone uses their ability or shoots their gun(like call of duty in the shooting case). 
I see no cons to this radar tbh. Campers no longer can camp successfully(least not completely) since they can’t hard stare at their radar. It be better for universal settings, since you can still do all the flanking as if Radar was off. It helps out those who are deaf(minority I’m sure but it’s still a positive) .  

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.