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Halo Infinite Discussion

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28 minutes ago, SpitFlame said:

Dark Souls 1 really is a masterpiece in a lot of ways and one of my favourites as well. It arguably has the best 3d level design ever conceived (taking that elevator down to Firelink Shrine still blows my mind), amazing art and bosses, a lot of environmental storytelling, and a crazy amount of secrets and hidden places. It's like the original Zelda, where you're just dropped off in this complex world and have to figure things out for yourself, without any map or guide.

I think what made DS1 the best was how it was one huge world that looped back on itself, unlike BB or DS3 where you start at a set hub and warp to different locations. I was disappointed when I first played DS3 and learned that Firelink Shrine wasn't connected to the other areas. Almost makes me think DS1 was a fluke, and I wonder why they never went back to that sort of world design.

Bloodborne was fairly interconnected as well, just not as well done as DS1. Ds2 was technically but not intelligently so. There's no way DS1 was a fluke though, you don't get something that precise on accident.

 

What I do know is every fromsoft game that Miyazaki is not heavily involved with ends up pretty bad. Ds2, Sekiro, and to a lesser extent DS3. Ds1 and bloodborne were his primary projects and they ended up phenomenal, and it looks like he's heavily involved in Elden Ring which is why I'm so pumped about it. 

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3 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Bloodborne was fairly interconnected as well, just not as well done as DS1. Ds2 was technically but not intelligently so. There's no way DS1 was a fluke though, you don't get something that precise on accident.

 

What I do know is every fromsoft game that Miyazaki is not heavily involved with ends up pretty bad. Ds2, Sekiro, and to a lesser extent DS3. Ds1 and bloodborne were his primary projects and they ended up phenomenal, and it looks like he's heavily involved in Elden Ring which is why I'm so pumped about it. 

Yeah BB was interconnected, but like you said, it didn't match DS1 where you didn't even have warping for the first half of the game. I liked how in DS1 the hub area acted as a mediator between a bunch of shortcuts (it led to the church place, the catacombs, New Londo, and even to Blighttown) instead of just warping from the get go.

Elden Ring sounds promising. I hear it's going to be more open world and even feature horseback riding, which appeals a lot to me. It's up there with Cyberpunk as my most anticipated games of 2020.

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14 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

I hate DS2 and Sekiro.

You hate Sekiro?!? I fuckin love that game.

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Related mostly to Halo PvP, but has anyone noticed the drastic downgrade in campaign gameplay quality from Halo CE to Halo 2? 


Halo CE felt open and expansive, even in narrow indoor sections. Enemies took a heavy beating before going down and so did you. Enemies were constantly moving and felt distinct from one another to fight. Weapons were

perfectly tuned and levels were perfectly paced. Music was awesome. 

 

Halo 2, most sections feel claustrophobic or shrunken in size. Enemies are hyper passive compared to CE, dumber than CE, don't move around as much as in CE, and have way lower health. Half the sandbox is unusable and the other half is broken, barring some very brief sections of the game. Level pacing was awful. The game relied on throwing 15 waves of enemies at you so that the piece of geometry they locked you in would feel like a 25 minute section rather than a 2 minute section. 

A lot of this unfortunately carried over the H3 too, though that campaign has much better gameplay imo. 

It's a shame because I love Halo 2 more than any other Halo (barring Reach) for how atmospheric and cinematically brilliant it is, along with all of the locations in the game. Oh well, at least PvP's excellent. 

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4 hours ago, LI Mr X IL said:

You hate Sekiro?!? I fuckin love that game.

Couldn't stand it. Have you played the other Fromsoft games? Most people I've talked to coming from them weren't a fan, seems like it appealed to people who hadn't played their other work yet. 

 

Everything From usually does the best, was just not present in Sekiro. The level design was really weak and monotonous, the character design was bland, exploration wasn't really an aspect, and the entire game revolves around prebuilt systems for combat. Felt more like playing a rhythm game to be honest than a From game. Lots and lots of silly cheeses everywhere for every enemy. It just felt sloppy to me.

 

Also there is really, really bad input lag for that game  

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44 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

 

As far as I'm concerned story, music, gametypes, and multiplayer maps (overall, Ce had steeper highs and lows) are pretty much the ONLY things Halo 2 did better.

The changes to the weapon sandbox were atrocious, but the real atrocity is that they were never reverted and became the new basis for every game after...in spite of how senseless and shit that they are.  Covenant weapons are still useless, redundant reskins of UNSC guns...even though we have 9001 daily suggestions, the original game, and over 25 years of FPS design to draw from to come up with proper alternatives instead.  And then they throw a third faction's worth of weapons on top that have the same exact problem. Blows my mind.

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12 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Couldn't stand it. Have you played the other Fromsoft games? Most people I've talked to coming from them weren't a fan, seems like it appealed to people who hadn't played their other work yet. 

 

Everything From usually does the best, was just not present in Sekiro. The level design was really weak and monotonous, the character design was bland, exploration wasn't really an aspect, and the entire game revolves around prebuilt systems for combat. Felt more like playing a rhythm game to be honest than a From game. Lots and lots of silly cheeses everywhere for every enemy. It just felt sloppy to me.

 

Also there is really, really bad input lag for that game  

That's because it is a rhythm game more or less. The entire game is just an emphasis of Souls combat minus just standing around with a shield with visual/audio cues to represent what you're supposed to do. You can play the other souls games the same way but they really just narrowed the focus to a specific playstyle and made the audio/visuals emphasize it even more

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6 hours ago, Ramirez77 said:

 

As far as I'm concerned story, music, gametypes, and multiplayer maps (overall, Ce had steeper highs and lows) are pretty much the ONLY things Halo 2 did better.

The changes to the weapon sandbox were atrocious, but the real atrocity is that they were never reverted and became the new basis for every game after...in spite of how senseless and shit that they are.  Covenant weapons are still useless, redundant reskins of UNSC guns...even though we have 9001 daily suggestions, the original game, and over 25 years of FPS design to draw from to come up with proper alternatives instead.  And then they throw a third faction's worth of weapons on top that have the same exact problem. Blows my mind.

Halo 2s music doesn't do it for me like CEs does honestly. And I always liked that halo 3 was closer to it stylistically.

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7 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Related mostly to Halo PvP, but has anyone noticed the drastic downgrade in campaign gameplay quality from Halo CE to Halo 2? 


Halo CE felt open and expansive, even in narrow indoor sections. Enemies took a heavy beating before going down and so did you. Enemies were constantly moving and felt distinct from one another to fight. Weapons were

perfectly tuned and levels were perfectly paced. Music was awesome. 

 

Halo 2, most sections feel claustrophobic or shrunken in size. Enemies are hyper passive compared to CE, dumber than CE, don't move around as much as in CE, and have way lower health. Half the sandbox is unusable and the other half is broken, barring some very brief sections of the game. Level pacing was awful. The game relied on throwing 15 waves of enemies at you so that the piece of geometry they locked you in would feel like a 25 minute section rather than a 2 minute section. 

A lot of this unfortunately carried over the H3 too, though that campaign has much better gameplay imo. 

It's a shame because I love Halo 2 more than any other Halo (barring Reach) for how atmospheric and cinematically brilliant it is, along with all of the locations in the game. Oh well, at least PvP's excellent. 

Halo 2 is my least favorite campaign to play. The story is good (minus some rushed character moments) but it's a fucking slog. Halo 3 is so much better it's not even funny.

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On 1/4/2020 at 9:22 AM, _Synapse said:

Related mostly to Halo PvP, but has anyone noticed the drastic downgrade in campaign gameplay quality from Halo CE to Halo 2? 


Halo CE felt open and expansive, even in narrow indoor sections. Enemies took a heavy beating before going down and so did you. Enemies were constantly moving and felt distinct from one another to fight. Weapons were

perfectly tuned and levels were perfectly paced. Music was awesome. 

 

Halo 2, most sections feel claustrophobic or shrunken in size. Enemies are hyper passive compared to CE, dumber than CE, don't move around as much as in CE, and have way lower health. Half the sandbox is unusable and the other half is broken, barring some very brief sections of the game. Level pacing was awful. The game relied on throwing 15 waves of enemies at you so that the piece of geometry they locked you in would feel like a 25 minute section rather than a 2 minute section. 

A lot of this unfortunately carried over the H3 too, though that campaign has much better gameplay imo. 

It's a shame because I love Halo 2 more than any other Halo (barring Reach) for how atmospheric and cinematically brilliant it is, along with all of the locations in the game. Oh well, at least PvP's excellent. 

yeah i really didnt like halo 2 when it came out. it seemed like in forums around that time that it was like halo 2 campaign didnt have what people liked about halo 1. but now it seems like halo 1 is not looked at as having a good campaign. but outside of the reused levels its really good. also ive never really felt something the way i did when you go from pillar of autumn to halo and you explore that first level. like its not this complete weird alien world with purple shit like xen from half life but its something familiar but so different. and in halo 2 and 3 weve only gone back to halo in what feels like cameos. looks like infinite might be going after that original ce feeling 

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7 hours ago, boogerman said:

yeah i really didnt like halo 2 when it came out. it seemed like in forums around that time that it was like halo 2 campaign didnt have what people liked about halo 1. but now it seems like halo 1 is not looked at as having a good campaign. but outside of the reused levels its really good. also ive never really felt something the way i did when you go from pillar of autumn to halo and you explore that first level. like its not this complete weird alien world with purple shit like xen from half life but its something familiar but so different. and in halo 2 and 3 weve only gone back to halo in what feels like cameos. looks like infinite might be going after that original ce feeling 

Yeah the people who keep saying the "reused level lol" stuff don't appreciate game design at ALL. Even if the level GEOMETRY was reused, the levels themselves played nothing like it because of how varied and radically different each weapon felt and each enemy faction is to fight. Halo CE's campaign has so much depth and brilliance to it, it's easily the best PvP I've ever played. The enemy design, the encounter design, the level layouts, the sandbox design, the soundtrack, the cinematics. They're all nearly perfect. If CE had a firefight mode with the polish or amount of content as Reach or ODST firefight, I don't think I'd play any other Halo campaign lol. Or campaign in general. 

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The first half of Halo 2 is decent enough (up through Delta Halo I'd say), but starting with Sacred Icon it just goes to hell. Still better than Reach or H5 though.

My theory, that I have to no way of proving, is that the better Halo campaigns (CE, H3, ODST) were designed for gameplay and atmosphere first, and story was hashed out later to fit what they had come up with. Whereas with H2, Reach, and H5 (and possibly H4), the plot was set in stone beforehand, and they tried to design the gameplay around the narrative.

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Halo 1 was the only campaign I could play more than once. In fact I played it several hundred times. The mystery and tone weren't the same afterwards.

 

We need another ODST that's focused on the franchises horror elements - Elites are 8', Brutes are 9' and Hunters are 14'! Along with the flood that's more than enough nightmare fuel to tell the story of humanitys fight for survival in a different light.

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45 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

Halo 1 was the only campaign I could play more than once. In fact I played it several hundred times. The mystery and tone weren't the same afterwards. I still think we need another ODST that's focused on the franchises horror elements - Elites are 8', Brutes are 9' and Hunters are 14'! Along with the flood that's more than enough nightmare fuel to tell the story of humanitys fight for survival in a different light.

What we need is a flood horror video game. The Spartans can’t show this fear or nightmare. Heck’s in one of the comics after a spartan 3s buddy is killed he just mocks the covenant even though he knows he’s about to die himself.

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I'm keen on the idea of setting a spartan loose on an abandoned UNSC ship/space station, and having that serve as the hub for an open world/wide-pipe game like ODST. No allies left, just a shitload of covenant. Grunts, elites, jackals, hunters, and engineers. Brutes only if they can be made into interesting opponents and not just K-Mart elites (possibly a new covenant enemy type as well?). Some set encounters, but mostly random patrols of varying makeup and aggressiveness (keep the pressure on the player). Pick up 'clearance levels' as you go for access to locked doors and other nooks and crannies for collectibles and whatnot (muh RPG elements).

Yeah, it's pretty derivative of Alien and Deadspace and god knows what else, but then again this franchise started with a spartan waking up from cryosleep on a spaceship overrun by covenant, CE ended on that same ship with the iconic warthog run, H2 once again has you wading through a spaceship full of angry aliens in the first level, I swear 2/3 of the campaign cutscenes since 343 took over have taken place on the UNSC Infinity... I think Halo has as much of a right to that setup as any other franchise.

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While I doubt Infinite will do anything as bold/risky as going open world, I hope it'll have some very open levels, which, judging by the trailers, is what we'll get. It easily has the potential to be the best campaign in the series if they play their cards right.

I'm also sure they're working on some "new" game mode that makes Infinite stand out from the other games, kinda like what Warzone was to 5. That's fine, so long as they don't ship the game incomplete. Forge is already amazing; just add a few more things and transfer it over. Aside from gameplay, the thing I'm most worried about is armour customization. Given 343's track record, my expectations for that aren't high.

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2 minutes ago, SpitFlame said:

Aside from gameplay, the thing I'm most worried about is armour customization. Given 343's track record, my expectations for that aren't high.

I have faith Infinite will have the best armor customization in the series. There's probably going to be at LEAST 500 NEW Seeker helmet variants!

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32 minutes ago, Mythik Nick said:

I have faith Infinite will have the best armor customization in the series. There's probably going to be at LEAST 500 NEW Seeker helmet variants!

omg can't wait

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1 hour ago, SpitFlame said:

Forge is already amazing; just add a few more things and transfer it over.

Compared to most PC editors it's closer to a joke than amazing.

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12 minutes ago, Warlord Wossman said:

Compared to most PC editors it's closer to a joke than amazing.

Well sure, it's no Gary's Mod, but I've seen some pretty incredible things come out of the Forge community. It's a huge asset to Halo, and 5 has the best Forge in the series.

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You cannot launch H5 forge with custom movement values which used to be a thing in prior titles and it is super annoying. Also the lighting is way too bright on some maps. If they fix that and get some basic things like undo/redo going it could be okay-ish I guess.

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19 minutes ago, Warlord Wossman said:

Compared to most PC editors it's closer to a joke than amazing.

Pretty unnecessary statement. Can compare anything that's decent to something that's better in this way to make it sound negative.

Compared to most PC specs my phone is closer to a joke than amazing.

Compared to most mansions my house is closer to a joke than amazing.

Compared to most athletes my 10km time is closer to a joke than amazing.

Just seems like unnecessary negativity to what is a pretty cool and unique console game tool.

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