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Halo Infinite Discussion

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17 minutes ago, Nokt said:

 

Kind of side note, but Destiny 2 added in Solo queue for competitive recently. It does a pretty decent job of matching you with like players and is generally good matches. I wouldn't hate something like that in Halo.

World at War had Mercenary Team Deathmatch in like 2008.  I think Halo could really benefit from such a system, especially for ranking players.  When you let the system control all of the variables, like who your teammates are, I would think it could get a better picture of your baseline skill level (since teamwork and communication can make up for lack of skill in other areas).  

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If we can have multiple different slayer playlists we can sure af have a soloQ Team Arena playlist. 

Party restrictions would obviously be the best solution but 343 is allergic to those so a Mercenary Arena playlist is the best thing we can hope for. 

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9 hours ago, Boyo said:

World at War had Mercenary Team Deathmatch in like 2008.  I think Halo could really benefit from such a system, especially for ranking players.  When you let the system control all of the variables, like who your teammates are, I would think it could get a better picture of your baseline skill level (since teamwork and communication can make up for lack of skill in other areas).  

Man. You know what Halo would really benefit from in terms of matchmaking playlists and decision making? Anyone with a brain who also understands what it actually feels like to play Halo with their trash ass decision making post Halo 3. Its been so fucking bad for so long lol. They probably feel like they can't just copy what H3 did due to population concerns and my only response to that is that their matchmaking systems likely have a role in why the population is so low to begin with. Teams of four have been running a train on people just turning on their xbox for a few games for about a decade now and it hasn't been good for the game for a second of that time. I know in MCC they're "experimenting" with how it all works but I just can't believe they've been going back and forth on how party matching has been working when there are examples of how it actually worked well and it didn't have anything to do with any of the games they shipped. Take the fucking hint 343 lol please. The worst case scenario is to4 vs randoms no matter how they try to swing that it feels bad

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They will actually have no excuse to not have restrictions in Infinite. I still don't see why party matching can't be a toggle. I'd be more than willing to wait the extra few minutes to get a fair match in MCC.

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It's just more evidence that no one at 343 plays Halo at a decently competitive level aside from the PR pro team, who likely play nothing but scrims or stomping randoms as a to4.

I mean come on, you play five matches of Halo in Reach, H4, H5 or MCC and tell me teams matching randoms aren't a massive problem that undeniably had a hand in Halo's downfall over the last decade. They tried to hide who's in a party in recent games but it's still so obvious and easy to spot. Even casual shitfests like unranked Overwatch have team matching. It's baffling to me that they still think this is okay.

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37 minutes ago, HeX Reapers said:

They will actually have no excuse to not have restrictions in Infinite. I still don't see why party matching can't be a toggle. I'd be more than willing to wait the extra few minutes to get a fair match in MCC.

I mean I would too as would a lot of other people. There are definitely times where if you told me I would have to solo queue against to4s for most of my time playing I might not even turn on my xbox. I can only imagine what other players think, especially back in Reach, where it was so bad pro teams were committing suicide to mount the comeback from -50 just to have something to do

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5 hours ago, Nokt said:

 

Kind of side note, but Destiny 2 added in Solo queue for competitive recently. It does a pretty decent job of matching you with like players and is generally good matches. I wouldn't hate something like that in Halo.

Guess what I mean is if you entered a playlist that’s say 4v4 but went in as a team of 4, and let’s say you’re rank 20. Now go into that same playlist as a solo you’re rank 5. 

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2 hours ago, HeX Reapers said:

They will actually have no excuse to not have restrictions in Infinite. I still don't see why party matching can't be a toggle. I'd be more than willing to wait the extra few minutes to get a fair match in MCC.

Because most people(solo and duos) would never set it on. There’s a reason most games with join in progress don’t give the option to turn it off, because the majority would turn it off, making the feature borderline useless.  
mcc currently is experimenting with party matching, but the people who search teams of 4 aren’t HAPPY because theu can’t find a game. So far 343s use of partial team matching works out ok. I think they need to ensure solo ques can’t match a team of 4, unless that persons team is a team of 3, make it so two teams of two will be paired together. I’ve been reading the post on waypoint and so far the only ones bitching are those who search 4s in social just to curb stomp.

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10 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Because most people(solo and duos) would never set it on. There’s a reason most games with join in progress don’t give the option to turn it off, because the majority would turn it off, making the feature borderline useless.  
mcc currently is experimenting with party matching, but the people who search teams of 4 aren’t HAPPY because theu can’t find a game. So far 343s use of partial team matching works out ok. I think they need to ensure solo ques can’t match a team of 4, unless that persons team is a team of 3, make it so two teams of two will be paired together. I’ve been reading the post on waypoint and so far the only ones bitching are those who search 4s in social just to curb stomp.

That's the thing that people are upset about though. That is how Halo 3 worked and its FINALLY being talked about now in almost 2020 lol. How in the world have people been complaining and 343 updating on top of updating just to finally come back to what we've been saying the entire time. This right here is why Halo is an exhausting series to try and play/follow. If they're going back to how it worked in 2007 what have we been doing post H3 and why did it take so long to come back around to this? 

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Non Newtonian Floor 

When players are mobile, the floor is solid.  When a player stops moving, he begins to sink into the floor, reducing his rate of acceleration to top speed once he begins moving again.  If a player remains stationary for too long, he falls through the floor and dies.  

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27 minutes ago, Arlong said:

the people who search teams of 4 aren’t HAPPY because theu can’t find a game.

boo fucking hoo they have been ruining MM for close to nine years now. What I'd like to see is:

  • Ranked has strict party restrictions: Teams will always match their exact equivalent. Maybe 3s vs two to2 could work too.
  • Social can use Menkes "solution" that matches teams against randoms of higher skill. In H5's meaningless ranking system I think it tried to match to4 vs randoms of +500 skill. Although I'm pretty sure it only tries to do that and after 2 minutes of searching just goes back to the old bullshit way of matching.

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6 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Yeah but why

Can’t corner camp this room.  Encourage players to use it as a path to travel, not a place to stay.  If it were a second story floor, players could remain stationary as a means to travel to the first floor from this room.  Crouching could drop you through faster.  

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59 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

That's the thing that people are upset about though. That is how Halo 3 worked and its FINALLY being talked about now in almost 2020 lol. How in the world have people been complaining and 343 updating on top of updating just to finally come back to what we've been saying the entire time. This right here is why Halo is an exhausting series to try and play/follow. If they're going back to how it worked in 2007 what have we been doing post H3 and why did it take so long to come back around to this? 

It’s because it’s in SOCIAL, is why these people are complaining 

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42 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Non Newtonian Floor 

When players are mobile, the floor is solid.  When a player stops moving, he begins to sink into the floor, reducing his rate of acceleration to top speed once he begins moving again.  If a player remains stationary for too long, he falls through the floor and dies.  

This sounds fun for customs but not a spot  on a map I’d like.

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

Non Newtonian Floor 

When players are mobile, the floor is solid.  When a player stops moving, he begins to sink into the floor, reducing his rate of acceleration to top speed once he begins moving again.  If a player remains stationary for too long, he falls through the floor and dies.  

How is that non-newtonian tho? Sounds closer to relative frame shifting invariant.

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343's allergy to party restrictions is so strange.

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21 minutes ago, Warlord Wossman said:

How is that non-newtonian tho? Sounds closer to relative frame shifting invariant.

 

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Hm, I guess that connection you are making there is okay, I was just thinking "where do I need general relativity for this".
That said it sounds a bit gimmicky, could be cool for fun maps I guess.

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13 minutes ago, Warlord Wossman said:

Hm, I guess that connection you are making there is okay, I was just thinking "where do I need general relativity for this".
That said it sounds a bit gimmicky, could be cool for fun maps I guess.

a Gel Floor : a dropdown :: a Jetpack pick up : a stationary Gravity Lift 

A Gravity Lift only lets you move upward in one specific spot.  A drop down only let’s you move downward in one specific spot.  

A Jetpack lets you move upward from any spot.  A Gel Floor let’s you move downward from any spot.  

Obviously a Gel Floor wouldn’t cover an entire map but it gives map designers a tool to guide player movement (encouraging them to move across the floor, not stay on the floor) as well as providing a unique movement option (remaining stationary or crouching to drop down a level).

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Random thought while playing CoD lately: Isn't it funny that 343 tried so hard to copy CoD to bring in tourist gamers, but ultimately dropped the ball even in that aspect and copied only superfluous bullshit and even that in the laziest way possible?

- They gave us loadouts and create a class, but CoD has like 40 guns to choose from while Halo 4 had maybe 10? So they gave up on Halo's arena roots in the sanbox where each gun has its niche and created this messy "each niche has 4-5 guns in it" sandbox, but there are still not enough weapons to warrant a good loadout shooter. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

- Same for perks. The H4 and 5 Warzone perks are some of the laziest uninspired shit I've ever seen, plus we only get to choose two (H4) or one in H5. CoD kids want to create a class with synergy between guns/perks/attachments/equipment within in. Neither H4 nor H5s system allow that.

- Speaking of Warzone, why the fuck is each attachment a SEPARATE WEAPON? People love the gunsmith in CoD or the class creation in Battlefield where again they can pick and choose attachments and find what works together, but in H5 you get ONE and it's usually a super meaningless one at that.

- They were too lazy to design actual killstreaks in H4 and just made a care package that gave out random weapons and grenades, H5s REQ system also does basically the same thing if you think about it. Why no target locator / longsword airstrikes or a pelican gunship? I know these are shitty ideas for a proper Halo game but if you're making a CoD clone you might as well go all the way and copy what people actually like about CoD.

 

I could go on, but bottom line is I think a CoD/BF clone in the Halo universe wouldn't be all that awful if 1) they stop with the half measures and go all the way because clearly hybrid CoD/Halo has failed mutliple times to attract an audience and 2) to quote Cursed Lemon "maybe you should make a fucking spinoff!". If H4 was a proper H3 sequel and then two years later they hit us with "Halo Warzone: Legends of Spartan Locke" or some bullshit like that and the entire game abandonded everything about Halo and was an actually good sci-fi modern miltary shooter I doubt people would've hated on it so much.

I dream of a world where we have two developers alternating releases: Certain Affinity makes the mainline games that closely resemble what the trilogy did so well and then 343 comes up with a wacky spin off in between titles.

Sorry for the rant but this is the shit I think about in the shower lol.

TLDR: 343 needs to stop fence-riding and decide to either make Halo games or modern FPS ripoffs because the hybrid shooter isn't working.

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15 minutes ago, Boyo said:

a Gel Floor : a dropdown :: a Jetpack pick up : a stationary Gravity Lift 

A Gravity Lift only lets you move upward in one specific spot.  A drop down only let’s you move downward in one specific spot.  

A Jetpack lets you move upward from any spot.  A Gel Floor let’s you move downward from any spot.  

Obviously a Gel Floor wouldn’t cover an entire map but it gives map designers a tool to guide player movement (encouraging them to move across the floor, not stay on the floor) as well as providing a unique movement option (remaining stationary or crouching to drop down a level).

The problem here is the first 3 things (lifts, dropdowns, jetpacks) work reasonable well game design wise where gel floors are unintuitive and come with a set of issues/questions when hold up against the meat of the game (I am not saying jetpack is good or bad for Halo here btw), so let's start bouncing off some initial ideas to what you said:
- walking in small circles seems like a pretty easy way to prevent the "camping debuff"
- when people sink through you get situations where a head on the floor can shoot somebody walking into a room (assuming they still have not fixed headglitching aka. shots are still fired from the players head)
- how are the visuals working when the players POV is in that zone?
- what happens if the player sinking through throws a grenade or uses any sort of projectile? do they not colide with it until they exit it?
- what happens to objectives like a flag/ball/bomb landing on it?

I honestly think it comes with too many things that conflict with the core mechanics of the game to be a solid choice for map design when it comes to maps for competitive play, I might write up some of the more experimental things I would like to see in the game in the future like you have been doing too, to me it seems like your baseline is a bit too vague and you don't really let those brain stormed ideas clash with the base ruleset for a good shooter / good Halo game.

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@Warlord Wossman

The Gel Floor is as thick as a Spartan’s knees are tall.  A player standing still will slowly sink up to his knees then quickly fall completely through the floor.  At any point before falling through, moving will cause the player to climb up out of the floor, like slowly walking up stairs.  At any point before falling through, the player can attack (gun, grenade melee).  Attack is disabled for the brief moment it takes the player to fall through the floor once he is past knee deep.  

The player’s view will slowly lower as he sinks up to his knees then quickly lower as he falls completely through.  Weapons, objectives, and grenades will not fall through the floor but rest on top of it.  

Yes, walking in circles, or strafing back and forth, will prevent the player from sinking but this also prevents him from literally sitting in a corner, staring at a doorway.  He has to constantly move and constantly adjust his aim.  Additionally, constant movement makes him easier to spot.  You can look in a room and not have to worry that you missed a 2 square foot corner where an enemy could be hiding.  

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22 minutes ago, Basu said:

Random thought while playing CoD lately: Isn't it funny that 343 tried so hard to copy CoD to bring in tourist gamers, but ultimately dropped the ball even in that aspect and copied only superfluous bullshit and even that in the laziest way possible?

- They gave us loadouts and create a class, but CoD has like 40 guns to choose from while Halo 4 had maybe 10? So they gave up Halo's arena roots in the sanbox where each gun has its niche and created this messy "each niche has 4-5 guns in it" sandbox, but there are still not enough weapons to warrant a good loadout shooter. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

- Same for perks. The H4 and 5 Warzone perks are some of the laziest uninspired shit I've ever seen, plus we only get to choose two (H4) or one in H5. CoD kids want to create a class with synergy between guns/perks/attachments/equipment within in. Neither H4 nor H5s system allow that.

- Speaking of Warzone, why the fuck is each attachment a SEPARATE WEAPON? People love the gunsmith in CoD or the class creation in Battlefield where again they can pick and choose attachments and find what works together, but in H5 you get ONE and it's usually a super meaningless one at that.

- They were too lazy to design actual killstreaks in H4 and just made a care package that gave out random weapons and grenades, H5s REQ system also does basically the same thing if you think about it. Why no target locator / longsword airstrikes or a pelican gunship? I know these are shitty ideas for a proper Halo game but if you're making a CoD clone you might as well go all the way and copy what people actually like about CoD.

 

I could go on, but bottom line is I think a CoD/BF clone in the Halo universe wouldn't be all that awful if 1) they stop with the half measures and go all the way because clearly hybrid CoD/Halo has failed mutliple times to attract an audience and 2) to quote Cursed Lemon "maybe you should make a fucking spinoff!". If H4 was a proper H3 sequel and then two years later they hit us with "Halo Warzone: Legends of Spartan Locke" or some bullshit like that and the entire game abandonded everything about Halo and was an actually good sci-fi modern miltary shooter I doubt people would've hated on it so much.

I dream of a world where we have two developers alternating releases: Certain Affinity makes the mainline games that closely resemble what the trilogy did so well and then 343 comes up with a wacky spin off in between titles.

Sorry for the rant but this is the shit I think about in the shower lol.

TLDR: 343 needs to stop fence-riding and decide to either make Halo games or modern FPS ripoffs because the hybrid shooter isn't working.

Ngl, while I agree with the pathetic attempts to steal mechanics from CoD this post was pretty hard to read.
But Halo has always been hybrid as far as the arena shooter elements vs. passive health regen go, personally I would send everybody working on Halo back in time and let them play some Quake 3 Arena and Unreal Tournament because those games understood how items on maps should work out very well compared to what has been happening after HCE.
Generally I feel like most of the modern Halo games lack identity and it's because the devs don't understand that the balance of not being a full arena shooter but taking the fundamentals that made AFPS so great and making them work in this Halo context is a really thin line. To me it seems like they took what Halo was at the time (thinking of Reach and maybe a bit of H3) and just forced stuff from popular games on it like sprint being a given for anybody instead of one of a set of armor abilities like in Reach and that's one out of many examples.
So in a way they never went out there and asked what made classic Halo the game it was (and that a lot of people loved), instead they saw what was there and tried to "modernize" it in a brute force fashion, it's like making Chess 2 and giving each side 5 figures at the start because that's currently a popular team size in MOBAs. They just didn't realize people play Halo because it's a different game than CoD, and even if you shove in CoD stuff like they tried to in H4 the people who love CoD will stick to fucking CoD (what a surprise). Meanwhile you are pissing off people that liked how Halo played before you (343) made this leap to "reach a bigger audience".
In that sense: People love cake and people love pizza right? So let's make something that is a mix of both and people will love it even more for sure.

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I like the idea, but I don't care for the slowdown/quicksand aspect of it. I'd rather it be an all or nothing type deal. Let the color of the floor illustrate how much longer you have before you fall through.

@Warlord Wossman, what is your opinion on the health pack in Reach beginning a shield recharge when you grab it? For or against?

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