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Boyo, I'd like to read what you want to see come back map design wise, or even something new.

If it's something new, I'm hoping it isn't complicated.

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57 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Boyo, I'd like to read what you want to see come back map design wise, or even something new.

If it's something new, I'm hoping it isn't complicated.

I’ve helped you design your earliest maps.  You already know what I believe.  Trust in yourself.  

Edit:  You made Cobalt right?

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Halo: Infinite days until reveal.

 

 

 

343 give us something pls look at what we're talking about

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

I’ve helped you design your earliest maps.  You already know what I believe.  Trust in yourself.  

Edit:  You made Cobalt right?

Wrong person.  You're thinking of @Xandrith

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9 minutes ago, a Chunk said:

Wrong person.  You're thinking of @Xandrith

You made Epicenter, right?  Good map.

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13 hours ago, Warlord Wossman said:

Why should thrusters be purged from the franchise?

Because it's a bullshit, press-X-to-not-die mechanic that does nothing but encourage the user to camp?

13 hours ago, Warlord Wossman said:

Also nobody said power ups have to be passive stat buffs, the reason only OS and camo really work is because other flat stat buffs like movement speed or damage boost don't work too well with the game

Okay, so think of something else that fits the specifications I laid out. It's not as if there's no possible powerup world beyond overshield, camo, speed boost, and damage boost. To be honest I think the latter two should be purged as well. They don't do anything, and the line between them being irrelevant or broken is so slim it might not even exist.

13 hours ago, Warlord Wossman said:

if we want more variety you have to take what works in the sandbox, and active power ups could be the way to do this rather than going "duh, it was not in CE" or calling it an armor ability, armor abilities were broken because there was no limited time you had them and you spawned with them, not just because they are activated by a button press. Don't get me wrong I dislike most of them but for me it sounds like a 30 seconds power up giving you thrusters doesn't violate the equal spawn equipment Halo should always have and puts the person on a timer so they have to use it just like the other (passive) power ups the game has, otherwise it's gone.

If you have to activate it manually and the effect is not constant, it's not a powerup that belongs in the same boat with OS, camo, and whatever else. There's no rule saying that pickup armor abilities a la 2011 Reach couldn't be featured alongside powerups (although I don't care for the idea).

13 hours ago, Warlord Wossman said:

Double score power up sounds like a bad idea game design wise, if I understand correctly you get 2 points in slayer for getting one kill? Would you also get 2 flag captures when you cap the flag with this power up? Not sure but even in slayer no power up should influence the score this directly, you want to give the player a sort of buff (active or passive) that he can feel while playing the game, altering some ingame value that effects gunfights, because that is the bread and butter of the game, applying a math transformation to scores sounds like 343 hired a dev from a trading card game.

Only the player who picked up the powerup can have its effects, even in a team game. If he gets a kill, two points. If his teammate gets the kill, still one point. If he caps the flag while the powerup is active, it counts for two caps. If his teammate is the one that caps it, just one. Ball time only counts double while that player is holding it. And so on. Any mode where scoring can't be traced back and credited to one specific player (Strongholds) wouldn't work with this powerup and therefore it wouldn't be featured.

Why shouldn't the score be influenced? People are constantly bitching about dead time at the end of oddball/KOTH matches. This is an antidote. Any time the double score powerup spawns = comeback opportunity. And quite frankly slayer could use that kind of shot in the arm as well.

You're telling me a player/team wouldn't be able to "feel" the satisfaction of ripping off a huge chunk of ball or hill time if they fully capitalize on the powerup?

13 hours ago, Warlord Wossman said:

And I see what you mean with camo times, the problem here is that consistency is good for competitive games, all the big competitive titles have those things locked down so a spectator not playing the game actively doesn't get confused if the camo lasts 25 seconds or 40 seconds, that said weapon times are already not clear and as a forger (and level designer for other titles on PC) I like having control about all the values. Good competitive settings should have some sort of consistency across maps tho, not because it's hard to learn for the players but we don't want to throw the ability for spectating out of the window, it's already a shame that the default setting have been so different from what we want to play in more serious modes, imagine games like OW, CS:GO or LoL having differences this big from casual <-> competitive, I doubt so many people would watch their esports streams because it would look like an entirely different game.

Rockets never come with more than one spare clip on "real" maps, yet the option is there in forge to give it more or less. Why shouldn't powerups have the same option? At this way, instead of having to suffer through powerups that don't last long enough or aren't strong enough to command attention and direct map flow, we can tweak them and hopefully save them. We can arrive at a consensus later.

Visual indicators can hopefully help with the confusion part for the uninitiated. Let's say we want to put two overshields on a map, of varying strength, mimicking some sort of red armor/yellow armor dynamic I guess. The weaker OS, with just one layer of overshield and a standard decay rate (basically the H3/Reach OS), would have a somewhat dull appearance, kind of like the original H2 overshield. The stronger OS could have two layers (or more?) and a reduced decay rate - or maybe it doesn't decay at all. That OS might look more like the H2 anniversary multiplayer overshield; much brighter and more vivid, maybe gives off a bit of a glow to the surrounding area, indicating that it's more powerful and more desirable.

Ideally the game itself would detect the strength/desirability of the powerup and tune its appearance accordingly (flat or bright, glow or no glow), but I don't work in the industry and that sounds like it might be a bitch to code.

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41 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Because it's a bullshit, press-X-to-not-die mechanic that does nothing but encourage the user to camp?

Okay, so think of something else that fits the specifications I laid out. It's not as if there's no possible powerup world beyond overshield, camo, speed boost, and damage boost. To be honest I think the latter two should be purged as well. They don't do anything, and the line between them being irrelevant or broken is so slim it might not even exist.

If you have to activate it manually and the effect is not constant, it's not a powerup that belongs in the same boat with OS, camo, and whatever else. There's no rule saying that pickup armor abilities a la 2011 Reach couldn't be featured alongside powerups (although I don't care for the idea).

Only the player who picked up the powerup can have its effects, even in a team game. If he gets a kill, two points. If his teammate gets the kill, still one point. If he caps the flag while the powerup is active, it counts for two caps. If his teammate is the one that caps it, just one. Ball time only counts double while that player is holding it. And so on. Any mode where scoring can't be traced back and credited to one specific player (Strongholds) wouldn't work with this powerup and therefore it wouldn't be featured.

Why shouldn't the score be influenced? People are constantly bitching about dead time at the end of oddball/KOTH matches. This is an antidote. Any time the double score powerup spawns = comeback opportunity. And quite frankly slayer could use that kind of shot in the arm as well.

You're telling me a player/team wouldn't be able to "feel" the satisfaction of ripping off a huge chunk of ball or hill time if they fully capitalize on the powerup?

Rockets never come with more than one spare clip on "real" maps, yet the option is there in forge to give it more or less. Why shouldn't powerups have the same option? At this way, instead of having to suffer through powerups that don't last long enough or aren't strong enough to command attention and direct map flow, we can tweak them and hopefully save them. We can arrive at a consensus later.

Visual indicators can hopefully help with the confusion part for the uninitiated. Let's say we want to put two overshields on a map, of varying strength, mimicking some sort of red armor/yellow armor dynamic I guess. The weaker OS, with just one layer of overshield and a standard decay rate (basically the H3/Reach OS), would have a somewhat dull appearance, kind of like the original H2 overshield. The stronger OS could have two layers (or more?) and a reduced decay rate - or maybe it doesn't decay at all. That OS might look more like the H2 anniversary multiplayer overshield; much brighter and more vivid, maybe gives off a bit of a glow to the surrounding area, indicating that it's more powerful and more desirable.

Ideally the game itself would detect the strength/desirability of the powerup and tune its appearance accordingly (flat or bright, glow or no glow), but I don't work in the industry and that sounds like it might be a bitch to code.

This sounds great on paper but I just don’t know how it’d work in a real game.

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On 10/21/2019 at 8:52 AM, Warlord Wossman said:

Oh boy, this weapon balance discussion does seem kinda far from what Halo is like these days. I have been lurking for a bit here since last week, originally quit Halo (and posting in this forum) all together around 2014 when MCC was broken on launch, H5 looked like modern bs again and moved on to PC gaming but cannot really resist on stating my opinion about the franchise and what I would have liked to see changed, so here we go:

First of all, I agree that teamshot was always boring and made me feel like you cannot get anything done on your own - cutting a lot of potential for plays and tactics even, personally I like the idea of a 4sk projectile pistol with a TTK close to 1 second. While it's not really as powerful as the CE pistol it deals with the long range problem and a starter weapon shouldn't be able to just get hitscan shots across the map if you ask me.

And now to the second point, why do I not want a 3sk really strong starting weapon? Because the game has weapon pickups on the map. If the starting weapon is too great and outclasses all the (already) situational power weapons there is little control for a team to be gained by picking those up. Sure what I mentioned above is still a buff to the starting weapon compared to the starters in H2 -> H5, but it would be harder to aim. Also and this is super important for my idea of the game power weapons need buffs across the board, they really have to be strong, most Halo games I see are dominated by people killing each other with the starter weapon and that just doesn't make much sense design wise. If we take a look at true arena shooters they get it right but the starting weapons in those games are also very weak, so if one wants to preserve what makes Halo the game it is the problem has to be tackled from the other side:

For this I would lower the reload times for power weapons dramatically, a rocket launcher that takes 2 or 3 seconds to reload is no good. Additionally lower the time it takes to swap weapons significantly, everybody who has played Halo against people who know what they are doing knows that having a sniper or rocket launcher out in the wrong moment means you are dead (if you don't get a lucky no/quick scope), so what I am saying is those weapons are already situational, why punish people for holding them this much? The opponent still gets the first shot even if you can swap to your other weapon twice as fast but this way more combos and actual plays with those power weapons are encouraged.
On top of that weapon specific buffs:
- The rate of fire for the sniper should be fast (something like CE or a little faster),
- Rocket launcher projectiles should be faster than in H5, make the rocket launcher a 1 hit melee kill so you have to blast yourself less often.
- The beam type weapon should have a little more damage and knockback so you can push people around.
- Shotgun should be a one hit kill for a decent range if you aim right on the enemy.
- Reach like grenade launcher with a lower waiting time until the player controls when it explodes.
+ probably a lot more adjustments once you test how those weapons perform with faster reload and weapon swapping times.

Then add a weapon drop mechanic, if the player has more than 1 weapon he can drop one on the ground (automatically swaps to other weapon) for a teammate without walking to some weapon spawn on the map first, allowing quick teamplay and better resource management.

Power ups: Cut this shitty animation for picking them up from H5, if you walk in them you get them! Generally the same deal, they need to be good to make a change in the game, you want teams to really feel like they have to control the map by weapons and power ups instead of sitting there with their starter weapons just teamshoting enemies ignoring map pickups, map design will also be important for this but I will talk about that in a bit.
Power ups that already exist and my thoughts on them:
- Overshield: Nice idea, kinda like armor in Quake games, but with a 4sk starter weapon I would give 3x OS instead of the 2x which currently seems to be the standard, also make it charge up instantly and only let the 3rd shield layer decay over time so the second layer has to be removed by enemies.
- Camo: Generally a nice power up, maybe the sound of the player holding it should be lowered including shooting sounds.
Power ups ideas I would like to see:
- Thrusters: Basically the H5 thrusters available for 30 seconds, make them faster so they can be used for movement, make it so the player can shoot while using them (in a good shooter almost nothing should mean you cannot shoot). Could even be combined with a slight jumpboost making it a general movement power up

Oh right, cut all the other spartan abilities, probably obvious but might as well mention it.

Grenades should be weaker damage wise but faster to throw, maybe a slight radius increase so faster base movement doesn't counter them as much. Frag grenades are neat, sticky grenades are kind of a gimmick, they could be interesting if instant nading with 2 of them would be possible (like in H3). Generally weaker but faster to throw means players can hold up to 4 of each.
A concussion grenade instead of the promethean thingy, not much damage but high knockback, can be used for player movement (nade jumps) without destroying your shields (close to 1 pistol hit max damage). Could also be the type of grenade people can use to launch weapons towards them if done right.

Maps would be more room based and build around power ups an power weapons, in objective modes those map pickups are side objectives if you want to call them that, there is just more of a map control aspect involving those items, currenlty they are nice to have but don't make too much of a change, might as well just rush in with starter gun instead. Definitely something you learn to love when you play arena shooters on the PC, I feel like Halo being a game that has pickups on the map can only learn from those titles in that aspect.

All in all I don't think anything I just said is likely, don't want to come across as toxic here but I feel like shooters on consoles are less focused on competitiveness and esp. in Halo the weapon sandbox and values are fine tuned in a weird way that seems to keep the campaign mode in mind too much. That said H5 (yes I bought a used copy for 5 bucks the other day, even if I said I never would) already has more options for custom game types, if Halo Infinite comes with something like a "weapon forge" where you can tweak rate of fire, damage, knockback, etc. of existing weapons one might be able to build a gametype that is like the one I am currently lining out, but I highly doubt it.
For me Halo has potential but was always in the wrong place, that's why I spent most of my time playing in custom games with different settings back in the day, as I said I think Halo will stay sprinting around to eventually pick up weak weapons while dying to multiple people shooting you with BRs, fair enough if that's what most people want from the game - it's just not for me :D

Brilliant. I think this is the first time I've seen someone talk about the pace of weapon interaction at length. Everything in Halo 5 is simply too slow, with or without SAs in the game, and a HUGE part of it is the weapons. You spend so little time actually shooting and the weapon swap times and reload times are just as much a factor as the damn SAs themselves. 

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9 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Because it's a bullshit, press-X-to-not-die mechanic that does nothing but encourage the user to camp?

Okay, so think of something else that fits the specifications I laid out. It's not as if there's no possible powerup world beyond overshield, camo, speed boost, and damage boost. To be honest I think the latter two should be purged as well. They don't do anything, and the line between them being irrelevant or broken is so slim it might not even exist.

If you have to activate it manually and the effect is not constant, it's not a powerup that belongs in the same boat with OS, camo, and whatever else. There's no rule saying that pickup armor abilities a la 2011 Reach couldn't be featured alongside powerups (although I don't care for the idea).

Only the player who picked up the powerup can have its effects, even in a team game. If he gets a kill, two points. If his teammate gets the kill, still one point. If he caps the flag while the powerup is active, it counts for two caps. If his teammate is the one that caps it, just one. Ball time only counts double while that player is holding it. And so on. Any mode where scoring can't be traced back and credited to one specific player (Strongholds) wouldn't work with this powerup and therefore it wouldn't be featured.

Why shouldn't the score be influenced? People are constantly bitching about dead time at the end of oddball/KOTH matches. This is an antidote. Any time the double score powerup spawns = comeback opportunity. And quite frankly slayer could use that kind of shot in the arm as well.

You're telling me a player/team wouldn't be able to "feel" the satisfaction of ripping off a huge chunk of ball or hill time if they fully capitalize on the powerup?

Rockets never come with more than one spare clip on "real" maps, yet the option is there in forge to give it more or less. Why shouldn't powerups have the same option? At this way, instead of having to suffer through powerups that don't last long enough or aren't strong enough to command attention and direct map flow, we can tweak them and hopefully save them. We can arrive at a consensus later.

Visual indicators can hopefully help with the confusion part for the uninitiated. Let's say we want to put two overshields on a map, of varying strength, mimicking some sort of red armor/yellow armor dynamic I guess. The weaker OS, with just one layer of overshield and a standard decay rate (basically the H3/Reach OS), would have a somewhat dull appearance, kind of like the original H2 overshield. The stronger OS could have two layers (or more?) and a reduced decay rate - or maybe it doesn't decay at all. That OS might look more like the H2 anniversary multiplayer overshield; much brighter and more vivid, maybe gives off a bit of a glow to the surrounding area, indicating that it's more powerful and more desirable.

Ideally the game itself would detect the strength/desirability of the powerup and tune its appearance accordingly (flat or bright, glow or no glow), but I don't work in the industry and that sounds like it might be a bitch to code.

I mean in Halo's current state it would probably be used to dodge dying and running away more than anything else, I was thinking in a less team-shot heavy environment with stronger power weapons and power ups it would mostly be used to actually move around the map but who knows.
I don't really have to hold onto this idea, just felt like bringing it up as an option that could be tested, if it turns out to be another get out of jail free card like sprint after some testing I would 100% cut it out again. For me it's tough to tell tho because I would change a large number of things and idealy you would have to use thrusters aggressively because sitting around not dying with your starter weapon (or even a power weapon) would be so passive that you most likely cannot help your team getting the next cycle of items - but you wouldn't be wrong to say that's wishful thinking with what setting we currently have!

Also when you say pick up armor abilities it sounds a bit worse than it would be if the armor ability is limited to 30 seconds, but I do again agree that most of the armor abilities the game ever had were trash. Maybe there is a cool idea nobody had just jet, just don't want to rule them out entirely at this stage.

Still against the score power up, as I said I prefer something that effects gunfights and gives the player an advantage that way, the downtime for KoTH or oddball could simply be fixed by ending the game once the losing team cannot come back anymore, shouldn't be hard to implement.

Sadly you are also right about power up times and weapons but I think that's more just 343 making a different game than people here want to see, if there was a reasonable discussion and testing we could probably pin down a value for power ups that makes sense and they would be strong enough while consistent across the board.
Seems like the idea of 2 tiers of overshields is something a lot of people agree on, I really don't know if they would even considere that, probably not but with different colors and glow it wouldn't be a no-go at all, if anything you give forgers more options to place the fitting OS into their map, 3x OS is probably a bit strong for 1v1 maps while 2x OS is pretty much a joke for 4v4 maps, esp. if you want lower TTK with the pistol.
And excuse my negativity again but I doubt any disk map will get this sort of stuff right, they are trying I guess but looking through the H5 maps I have yet to see one that impresses me layout wise, they look great for sure, sometimes to the point where you can hardly see what is important tho.
 

2 hours ago, PolyG said:

Brilliant. I think this is the first time I've seen someone talk about the pace of weapon interaction at length. Everything in Halo 5 is simply too slow, with or without SAs in the game, and a HUGE part of it is the weapons. You spend so little time actually shooting and the weapon swap times and reload times are just as much a factor as the damn SAs themselves. 

Exactly, and I think a lot of people unconsciously believe it's fine this way, as if power weapons need a natural weakness to be balanced. Realistically most games end with very few kills from those weapons tho, and since you can only hold 2 weapons at the same time in Halo I would def say let people do more combos with them and don't make weapon swapping something that can be so risky and punishing, using more than 1 gun makes the game more interesting if anything.

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Let's talk about powerups that could actually work:

 

  • Camo: obviously
  • Haste: Increases weapon RoF & reload speed to 140%, also increases movement speed and acceleration to 120%
  • Absorption: 50% of damage dealt to opponents is returned as health + shields to user
  • Berserker: I think turning the sword into a fixed duration powerup like Berserk from Doom would also be cool. Allow people to lunge even without red reticle and remove all lock-on bullshit
  • 2x and 3x OS that can be stacked
     

Then as lower-tier movement pickups:

  • Jump boots: allows jumping again once while airborne. IMO this would be the coolest and least offensive "ability" that can be added to Halo.
  • Jetpack: As long at it's loud, has limited fuel and dropped on death I don't really see a problem with it, I liked those pickups on MLG Sanc in Reach.
  • Stabilize: This could potentially work if it was a limited pickup and not everyone having it off spawn. Also please map it to jump please and don't tie it to ass ADS which is some of the clunkiest shit I've ever seen in a video game.
  • not a fan of thrust for obvious reasons but it might be worth testing if it was limited in duration and allowed shooting while being used.
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I think everybody agrees that camo and OS work, at least have not seen anybody pointing out flaws with them so far.

Haste is already problematic imo, I think power weapons should naturally reload faster than they currently are and most of them should also have faster RoF, I think this needs to be addressed by buffing specific weapons, in a power up form this only leads to a pistol with effectively no reload time and a fast RoF which sounds pretty OP - and I know power up should be strong, what I am saying is this one sounds like it would buff the starting weapon more than anything and that's something I would rather stay away from since I already want to buff pistol TTK to around 1 second.
Haste works really well in Quake 3, in Halo I can only see RoF power ups being problematic, and if you cut out the RoF and reload speed to address those specifically for weapons you end up with just a movement speed buff and it can be a bit of a pain to make maps work with 2 seperate movement speeds.
I thought about this type of power up a lot but cannot see how you would make it work in Halo if you also want to get away from people only killing each other with the starting weapon.

Vampirism power ups are hard to judge on paper, it does kinda sound more reliable to use with a fast shooting gun again, esp if you cannot overcharge your shields with it. The beam weapon comes to mind. Also can you steal health from teammates? While that could be an interesting mechanic I cannot really see this part of it getting into the game.

Beserk/sword power up sounds too gimmicky for my taste, obv it depends how exactly you want to make it work but currently I am thinking of something like the Doom guy ability in Quake Champions which is terrible and doesn't really belong in a shooter if you ask me. Also isn't lunging around without red reticle essentially the same as giving somebody thruster packs?

Doublejump is something a lot of games have these days, not too sure if I like it, sounds like it would be more effective at dodging rockets than a thruster pack if that is something we are concerned about. Again kinda depends how much air control you have, without insight in the developement process and testing I don't think they would get something like this right.

Jetpack is a big no for me, I want people to walk around the actual map and not appear somewhere in midair all of a sudden. I think jetpacks are something that shouldn't ever return to Halo, it also means shotguns and rocket launchers become useless against the guy jetpacking, it just messes too much with everything. I guess that's also what I say if somebody suggested adding a portal gun tbf.

Stabilize could be a pickup but it's rather minor, I agree with ADS (should be purged for only classic zooms but that's another topic) triggering it being janky as hell. All in all wouldn't make much of a difference but I prefer it as a minor pickup over something everybody spawns with, that would also mean you could make it better tho.

Thrusters are in the same camp, I did explain what my thought process was in the response to Larry but so many of these ideas just need to be tested to really tell how they play out. I think the movement pickups would make a lot more sense in a game with power ups and power weapons strong enough so you have to go for them to not be on a major disadvantage. Encourage using movement options to fight over the big items instead of being a passive warrior using mentioned movement options only to stay alive in a teamshot dominated game...
 

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I'll be honest with the way Halo has been rockets and snipe do not need a buff. They do not need higher rof. They do not need faster animataions. They don't need faster reloads. They do not need higher projectile speed on the rockets. We just came off the Halo with the easiest to use and thus the most powerful power weapons ever. Rockets are the last thing that need to become even easier to use. You're already rewarded with near free kills for winning the fight for the weapon as it is. Changing rockets in those ways just makes your positioning matter even less with them. What we needed was far less aim assist and bullet mag on all of the above on top of the other power weapons while shotgun just needed to go. You can't go ahead with any buffs to any of those weapons without a total overhaul of how the rest of the sandbox works and if we're being honest we're not getting that in any way that we're going to be happy about.

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It's not about how easy to use they are, if you have a rocket launcher out in the wrong situation and it takes a second to switch to another gun you are already dead, this only slows down the game, people who did fight for the items on the map and got them should be rewarded with more than a super situational gun. If you want positioning you can always play CS:GO where people sit around for ages, fast arena like titles that encourage aggression over sitting around in a corner waiting for the opponent to walk into your crosshair all have fast weapon swapping times. There is still positioning but it's more focused around combat to actually get those items - which is not worth investing in if they are too weak tho.

Just check how many kills in a 4v4 match are made by power weapons vs. anything else, you will find out most of the kills are people killing each other with the starting guns, so lowering reload and swapping times only encourages to actually use those weapons more. Sure if you want a BR simulator because "rockets are too easy to aim" then nerf rockets to the ground, but if all the items on the map are meh at best I might as well not care if the enemy picks them up and just apply my usual team-shot strat and we end up with the watered down experience we have been playing for years.

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1 hour ago, Warlord Wossman said:

It's not about how easy to use they are, if you have a rocket launcher out in the wrong situation and it takes a second to switch to another gun you are already dead, this only slows down the game, people who did fight for the items on the map and got them should be rewarded with more than a super situational gun. If you want positioning you can always play CS:GO where people sit around for ages, fast arena like titles that encourage aggression over sitting around in a corner waiting for the opponent to walk into your crosshair all have fast weapon swapping times. There is still positioning but it's more focused around combat to actually get those items - which is not worth investing in if they are too weak tho.

Just check how many kills in a 4v4 match are made by power weapons vs. anything else, you will find out most of the kills are people killing each other with the starting guns, so lowering reload and swapping times only encourages to actually use those weapons more. Sure if you want a BR simulator because "rockets are too easy to aim" then nerf rockets to the ground, but if all the items on the map are meh at best I might as well not care if the enemy picks them up and just apply my usual team-shot strat and we end up with the watered down experience we have been playing for years.

So you envision rockets being super easy to use and people just running through the map killing essentially anyone they come into contact with nearly regardless of the situation? It seems like you want people who pick up rockets to only be able to die by being assassinated, naded and shot as they turn a corner, trying to win a 2 or 3v1, or killed by another power weapon? Even in a game with a much faster pace and punishing environment for being in the wrong spot (CE) it doesn't up the RoF or give 1 hit beatdowns and they're still extremely strong in that game despite nearly every weapon on the map being decidedly more deadly than any iteration of Halo afterwards.

The other weird thing about all of this is that in those Halo games you're complaining about the rockets actually increase the pace and break stalemates as they are. The reason you don't see tons more rocket kills is because the rockets spawn every 3 minutes and not because rockets aren't strong. Rocket spawns, like OS or camo, really determine games most of the time long term. Making them even more ridiculous doesn't really change anything when they aren't on the map. Power weapons already run the map post CE when you manage to get them. The idea that they need to be buffed to increase pace is exactly how you get Halo 5 as it was. If you want to stop teamshot oriented gameplay your beef is with the average kill times, the capability of everyone on the map, and spawn times of power ups/weapons. Turning the timed weapons into free kills rather than a significant advantage just erodes counter play and emphasis on positioning

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10 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

So you envision rockets being super easy to use and people just running through the map killing essentially anyone they come into contact with nearly regardless of the situation? It seems like you want people who pick up rockets to only be able to die by being assassinated, naded and shot as they turn a corner, trying to win a 2 or 3v1, or killed by another power weapon? Even in a game with a much faster pace and punishing environment for being in the wrong spot (CE) doesn't up the RoF or give 1 hit beatdowns and they're still extremely strong in that game.

The super easy to use thing is something that needs testing, tweaking the explosion radius so people require better aim with rockets is still possible if they are too much of a "win the engagement" button. And def not any situation, mid range you can still dodge them, faster than Halo 5 doesn't mean as fast as bullets and long range they are not useful at all unless you want to spam some location.
Rockets don't need a massive RoF buff, and the reload would still be a reload just not 2 seconds or something crazy like that. But overall I want strong rockets, stronger than CE? Potentially, yes. You have to keep in mind I would like to see a lower TTK for starters compared to any Halo but CE and other things like a 3 layer OS and so on, so it shouldn't turn out as silly as your text suggests. I just don't like how holding a rocket then swapping weapon means you are 1 or 2 shots down in a normal gunfight, so yeah rockets would be really strong but that's also why they only come with 4 shots so it's not like you can win a game by picking one of them up. If you control an area and keep getting them that is good, but on decent maps it would be really tough to get all the rockets and still lock down other items like OS, sniper, camo, etc at the same time. I just want those things to mean more than in H2 -> H5 again.

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It's like someone took the Ice/Beast approach, did a complete 180° and then turned it up to 11. Do you seriously think the H5 Magnum is OP and that the Rockets, Sniper and Shotgun need a buff? If you want to see more power weapon kills then make them spawn faster and make the starting weapon harder to use, don't give out random buffs to weapons that are already as close to a hard-counter as Halo is ever going to get.

I think the balance between starting and map weapons were pretty much perfect in CE and GoldPro Reach (4sk DMR with default Reach Sniper, Shotty, Rockets and GL), that's what we should be aiming for. Honestly, the "muh one-gun game" argument always seemed silly to me. It's the starting/utility weapon that ties the whole sandbox together and acts as the one equalizer that allows people witch sufficient skill to defend themselves against the niche weapon pickups that have situational advantages or act as the Uber pickup (Rockets, OS, Camo).

We tried to "fix" the one-gun thing in H4 by giving everyone random ordnance (horrible) and H5's "every weapon you pick up gives you some sort of straight advantage" approach, which was slightly less stupid but still bad for gameplay. It might be more "interesting" for thumbless timmy to pick up a random needler and get a free killing spree, but it comes at the cost of adding a ton of randomness and honestly just makes the game more frustrating.

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I mean why not do all 3 of those things? The power weapon buffs (which are mainly reload times and swapping times lowered), faster respawn of items and less aim assist on the starter gun. Gold pro Reach was pretty close, I would agree, I just think the DMR could have had a little less aim assist and ideally would be a fast projectile so cross mapping is nerfed, but it probably was the best setting since CE I played.

I am mainly going hard with suggestions since it most likely won't happen anyways, it's better to make items strong test it and then nerf a bit if needed, imo the shorter way to get to the sort of game setting people here seem to like the idea of.
There just has not been a Halo title for the last 15 years that really took this approach out of the box when it comes to weaponbalance.

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2 hours ago, Basu said:

It's like someone took the Ice/Beast approach, did a complete 180° and then turned it up to 11. Do you seriously think the H5 Magnum is OP and that the Rockets, Sniper and Shotgun need a buff? If you want to see more power weapon kills then make them spawn faster and make the starting weapon harder to use, don't give out random buffs to weapons that are already as close to a hard-counter as Halo is ever going to get.

I think the balance between starting and map weapons were pretty much perfect in CE and GoldPro Reach (4sk DMR with default Reach Sniper, Shotty, Rockets and GL), that's what we should be aiming for. Honestly, the "muh one-gun game" argument always seemed silly to me. It's the starting/utility weapon that ties the whole sandbox together and acts as the one equalizer that allows people witch sufficient skill to defend themselves against the niche weapon pickups that have situational advantages or act as the Uber pickup (Rockets, OS, Camo).

We tried to "fix" the one-gun thing in H4 by giving everyone random ordnance (horrible) and H5's "every weapon you pick up gives you some sort of straight advantage" approach, which was slightly less stupid but still bad for gameplay. It might be more "interesting" for thumbless timmy to pick up a random needler and get a free killing spree, but it comes at the cost of adding a ton of randomness and honestly just makes the game more frustrating.

This 1000%.  CE is not my favorite Halo game but one thing i really came to appreciate about it after playing a bit was how fast items spawn.  2 and 3 minute gaps between power items spawns is not great.  (Uninformed) people bitch about how "OP" the pistol is and how you don't need anything else, but the reality is quite the opposite.  When good teams play each other they get a higher percentage of kills from using power items than any other Halo game.  The fast item spawns encourages their use.

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I was thinking a mega powerup, like all the powerups combined in one, except it's only spawns once out of every 10 matches and takes a 30 second animation to grab

 

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Visibility, Vitality, Variant, Vector 

Camo, OS, Weapon enhancer, Movement enhancer 

Power Glove uniquely modifies the equipped weapon for a limited number of shots.  

Various limited fuel armor ability pick ups enhance movement.  

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