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Halo Infinite Discussion

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5 hours ago, Basu said:

People will probably play even more passive and wait for the "they're pushing" callout to activate the glove. 

That’s a possibility but the Power Glove is activated by Up on the D pad specifically to discourage this type of use.  Prior to battle, an attacking player, behind cover, activates Power Glove then pushes out and begins firing on his entrenched opponent.  If the enemy also has power glove, he could back down and activate it too but the point is that if a player wants to activate it, they can’t do it while being fired on.  This inherent property of the button used to activate Power Glove rewards offensive use and punishes defensive use.  

5 hours ago, Basu said:

If it's a neutral power up that enhances rof, bottomless clip or maybe damage (this historically never worked with Halo because it breaks the sandbox) then to ahead. 

Damage Boost is an impersonal, generic buff that doesn’t take into account many nuances of Halo’s sandbox.  But an item that can uniquely modify each weapon on an individual basis could rectify DB’s shortcomings.  The Energy Sword could immediately begin the user’s shield recharge upon successful lunge strike and immediately raise the user’s shield level by 1/2 a shield layer upon successful melee swipe.  DB does nothing for a Sword.  Power Glove can.  

5 hours ago, Basu said:

But it's the fact that people are awarded buffs for simply playing the game AND the fact they get to choose when to use it. 

If the Power Glove was a pick up in Arena that the user activated with Up on the D pad for 10 seconds with a 30 second recharge so that players who secured it and stayed alive could use it multiple times, would you have a problem with with?

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Manual pickup like that would just be use it and rampage with the advantage, go into hiding and avoid unnecessary fights while it's recharging so you don't pointlessly risk losing it, then repeat so you're going into every single fight with an advantage. On-receive activated pickups don't have this issue, if you don't grab them as soon as they're available then someone else will and then you have to use them within whatever time span there is.  One obviously promotes defensive play far more than the other.

You could just replace damage boost with a powerup that alters the weapons in the same way the power glove does...just without the "use whenever you want as much as you want" aspect.

Actually you wouldn't even need a timer like other powerups either, just a specific number of affected bullets.  So you can still somewhat pick and choose when to use it but it doesn't promote defensive play because there's no point in hiding since there's no recharge mechanic.  Actually dunno why I bothered clarifying that since that's how power weapons already work.

Plus you know all of that doesn't require a dedicated controller bind and already works the same as other existing mechanics.

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29 minutes ago, Ramirez77 said:

You could just replace damage boost with a powerup that alters the weapons in the same way the power glove does...just without the "use whenever you want as much as you want" aspect.

Absolutely.  Usually I am all for accomplishing actions without button presses where possible (like removing Reload and making all weapons heat based, there’s still a cap on sustained fire, just not one that requires user input to circumvent).  Maybe I watched too much fast and furious as a kid but I feel like there is something visceral about hitting that NO2 button, that the Power Glove provides and a power up doesn’t.  

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Oh boy, this weapon balance discussion does seem kinda far from what Halo is like these days. I have been lurking for a bit here since last week, originally quit Halo (and posting in this forum) all together around 2014 when MCC was broken on launch, H5 looked like modern bs again and moved on to PC gaming but cannot really resist on stating my opinion about the franchise and what I would have liked to see changed, so here we go:

First of all, I agree that teamshot was always boring and made me feel like you cannot get anything done on your own - cutting a lot of potential for plays and tactics even, personally I like the idea of a 4sk projectile pistol with a TTK close to 1 second. While it's not really as powerful as the CE pistol it deals with the long range problem and a starter weapon shouldn't be able to just get hitscan shots across the map if you ask me.

And now to the second point, why do I not want a 3sk really strong starting weapon? Because the game has weapon pickups on the map. If the starting weapon is too great and outclasses all the (already) situational power weapons there is little control for a team to be gained by picking those up. Sure what I mentioned above is still a buff to the starting weapon compared to the starters in H2 -> H5, but it would be harder to aim. Also and this is super important for my idea of the game power weapons need buffs across the board, they really have to be strong, most Halo games I see are dominated by people killing each other with the starter weapon and that just doesn't make much sense design wise. If we take a look at true arena shooters they get it right but the starting weapons in those games are also very weak, so if one wants to preserve what makes Halo the game it is the problem has to be tackled from the other side:

For this I would lower the reload times for power weapons dramatically, a rocket launcher that takes 2 or 3 seconds to reload is no good. Additionally lower the time it takes to swap weapons significantly, everybody who has played Halo against people who know what they are doing knows that having a sniper or rocket launcher out in the wrong moment means you are dead (if you don't get a lucky no/quick scope), so what I am saying is those weapons are already situational, why punish people for holding them this much? The opponent still gets the first shot even if you can swap to your other weapon twice as fast but this way more combos and actual plays with those power weapons are encouraged.
On top of that weapon specific buffs:
- The rate of fire for the sniper should be fast (something like CE or a little faster),
- Rocket launcher projectiles should be faster than in H5, make the rocket launcher a 1 hit melee kill so you have to blast yourself less often.
- The beam type weapon should have a little more damage and knockback so you can push people around.
- Shotgun should be a one hit kill for a decent range if you aim right on the enemy.
- Reach like grenade launcher with a lower waiting time until the player controls when it explodes.
+ probably a lot more adjustments once you test how those weapons perform with faster reload and weapon swapping times.

Then add a weapon drop mechanic, if the player has more than 1 weapon he can drop one on the ground (automatically swaps to other weapon) for a teammate without walking to some weapon spawn on the map first, allowing quick teamplay and better resource management.

Power ups: Cut this shitty animation for picking them up from H5, if you walk in them you get them! Generally the same deal, they need to be good to make a change in the game, you want teams to really feel like they have to control the map by weapons and power ups instead of sitting there with their starter weapons just teamshoting enemies ignoring map pickups, map design will also be important for this but I will talk about that in a bit.
Power ups that already exist and my thoughts on them:
- Overshield: Nice idea, kinda like armor in Quake games, but with a 4sk starter weapon I would give 3x OS instead of the 2x which currently seems to be the standard, also make it charge up instantly and only let the 3rd shield layer decay over time so the second layer has to be removed by enemies.
- Camo: Generally a nice power up, maybe the sound of the player holding it should be lowered including shooting sounds.
Power ups ideas I would like to see:
- Thrusters: Basically the H5 thrusters available for 30 seconds, make them faster so they can be used for movement, make it so the player can shoot while using them (in a good shooter almost nothing should mean you cannot shoot). Could even be combined with a slight jumpboost making it a general movement power up

Oh right, cut all the other spartan abilities, probably obvious but might as well mention it.

Grenades should be weaker damage wise but faster to throw, maybe a slight radius increase so faster base movement doesn't counter them as much. Frag grenades are neat, sticky grenades are kind of a gimmick, they could be interesting if instant nading with 2 of them would be possible (like in H3). Generally weaker but faster to throw means players can hold up to 4 of each.
A concussion grenade instead of the promethean thingy, not much damage but high knockback, can be used for player movement (nade jumps) without destroying your shields (close to 1 pistol hit max damage). Could also be the type of grenade people can use to launch weapons towards them if done right.

Maps would be more room based and build around power ups an power weapons, in objective modes those map pickups are side objectives if you want to call them that, there is just more of a map control aspect involving those items, currenlty they are nice to have but don't make too much of a change, might as well just rush in with starter gun instead. Definitely something you learn to love when you play arena shooters on the PC, I feel like Halo being a game that has pickups on the map can only learn from those titles in that aspect.

All in all I don't think anything I just said is likely, don't want to come across as toxic here but I feel like shooters on consoles are less focused on competitiveness and esp. in Halo the weapon sandbox and values are fine tuned in a weird way that seems to keep the campaign mode in mind too much. That said H5 (yes I bought a used copy for 5 bucks the other day, even if I said I never would) already has more options for custom game types, if Halo Infinite comes with something like a "weapon forge" where you can tweak rate of fire, damage, knockback, etc. of existing weapons one might be able to build a gametype that is like the one I am currently lining out, but I highly doubt it.
For me Halo has potential but was always in the wrong place, that's why I spent most of my time playing in custom games with different settings back in the day, as I said I think Halo will stay sprinting around to eventually pick up weak weapons while dying to multiple people shooting you with BRs, fair enough if that's what most people want from the game - it's just not for me :D

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10 hours ago, Arlong said:

Someone here commented that they don’t like the dmrs scope because it’s close to sniper range, and yet they like the CE pistol because with it they can fight a sniper without the player staying still to line up a shot. Hypocrite 

I didn't mention the CE Pistol at all in that post, so I don't know where this hypocrite stuff is coming from. I just felt that the DMR in its current form is redundant, the sniper is the ultimate long range weapon. Why have a weaker/easier version of the same weapon role? Just having the DMR in the game forces the developers to make the sniper easier to use to justify its existence. I don't think it's a coincidence that every Halo game with the DMR also has a ridiculously noob friendly sniper rifle.

I just want to get rid of clutter in the sandbox. Mark my words if Halo infinite features the BR, DMR, Pistol, Carbine, and Light Rifle again the sandbox will continue to be a hot mess. It'll be another discussion on what weapon should be the primary for tournaments with 343 spending thousands of hours tweaking the primaries with multiple title updates pleasing no one. 

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26 minutes ago, Stoppabl3 said:

I didn't mention the CE Pistol at all in that post, so I don't know where this hypocrite stuff is coming from. I just felt that the DMR in its current form is redundant, the sniper is the ultimate long range weapon. Why have a weaker/easier version of the same weapon role? Just having the DMR in the game forces the developers to make the sniper easier to use to justify its existence. I don't think it's a coincidence that every Halo game with the DMR also has a ridiculously noob friendly sniper rifle.

I just want to get rid of clutter in the sandbox. Mark my words if Halo infinite features the BR, DMR, Pistol, Carbine, and Light Rifle again the sandbox will continue to be a hot mess. It'll be another discussion on what weapon should be the primary for tournaments with 343 spending thousands of hours tweaking the primaries with multiple title updates pleasing no one. 

Reach sniper wasn’t even super easy to use. It wasn’t as hard as h3s but it wasn’t easier than h2,4,&5. 
mahbe we should just stop nerfing shit and just deal with the utility we get. Hells the biggest complaint in h5 was getting upgrades from your spawning tool, even though the weapon we had still kicked ass. We could of just made the default utility the BR, and had a nerf done to it’s AA and rage and it’d of been fine. 

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15 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Reach sniper wasn’t even super easy to use. It wasn’t as hard as h3s but it wasn’t easier than h2,4,&5. 
mahbe we should just stop nerfing shit and just deal with the utility we get. Hells the biggest complaint in h5 was getting upgrades from your spawning tool, even though the weapon we had still kicked ass. We could of just made the default utility the BR, and had a nerf done to it’s AA and rage and it’d of been fine. 

Reach sniper had brain dead easy no scoping but nothing like the guns later in the series. Reach was the beginning of the end for the sniper rifle in halo, it officially became a joke with that disgusting toaster with barrel in H4. 

Yeah, 343 had several easy fixes in h5, they could've buff the fire rate of the pistol, make it a 4 shot with dropped bullet mag, or increase the ammo to 15 shots. All the BR really needed as a AA and Bullet mag nerf but no they decided to give it spread. This is the company we're dealing with, we need to keep it simple and clean. The less moving pieces the better. 

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7 minutes ago, Stoppabl3 said:

Reach sniper had brain dead easy no scoping but nothing like the guns later in the series. Reach was the beginning of the end for the sniper rifle in halo, it officially became a joke with that disgusting toaster with barrel in H4. 

Yeah, 343 had several easy fixes in h5, they could've buff the fire rate of the pistol, make it a 4 shot with dropped bullet mag, or increase the ammo to 15 shots. All the BR really needed as a AA and Bullet mag nerf but no they decided to give it spread. This is the company we're dealing with, we need to keep it simple and clean. The less moving pieces the better. 

You act as if people could no scope as easily as snipedown, when they couldn’t. 

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

You act as if people could no scope as easily as snipedown, when they couldn’t. 

Not saying that but it was the easiest gun to no scope in the series at the time. No scoping was notoriously difficult in CE, H2 and reasonably difficult in H3. People did complain about the ease of use in Reach. 

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Complaining that a power weapon is too easy to use, if you cannot no scope people it just means you are dead when holding a sniper and somebody gets into a close range battle with you. I am not saying it has to be super easy but if you read my longer post you might get this idea that currently Halo seems to be starter gun simulator.

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2 hours ago, Boyo said:

That’s a possibility but the Power Glove is activated by Up on the D pad specifically to discourage this type of use.  Prior to battle, an attacking player, behind cover, activates Power Glove then pushes out and begins firing on his entrenched opponent.  If the enemy also has power glove, he could back down and activate it too but the point is that if a player wants to activate it, they can’t do it while being fired on.  This inherent property of the button used to activate Power Glove rewards offensive use and punishes defensive use.  

Damage Boost is an impersonal, generic buff that doesn’t take into account many nuances of Halo’s sandbox.  But an item that can uniquely modify each weapon on an individual basis could rectify DB’s shortcomings.  The Energy Sword could immediately begin the user’s shield recharge upon successful lunge strike and immediately raise the user’s shield level by 1/2 a shield layer upon successful melee swipe.  DB does nothing for a Sword.  Power Glove can.  

If the Power Glove was a pick up in Arena that the user activated with Up on the D pad for 10 seconds with a 30 second recharge so that players who secured it and stayed alive could use it multiple times, would you have a problem with with?

The "special ammo" pickup does actually sound sick. I would love to hear more ideas for that. It's also important to make sure they are interesting buffs and don't just follow the "aimbot instakill anything" philosophy that most H5 REQ weapons followed. I'd much rather see something like that than another broken damage boost that gives 1hk nades, melees and sniper bodyshots.

As for manual activation, I just think that no matter how you design it, it will lead to passive gameplay. People want to optimize the time of activation and that's almost always achieved by waiting for the enemy to push and subsequently punishing them for it. It could potentially work better in Obj modes but still I feel activation upon pickup is the most predictable and most fair solution. And anything with recharge is a no-go. Again, people should not be rewarded for sitting on their lazy asses and waiting for a meter to fill up.

2 hours ago, Ramirez77 said:

Manual pickup like that would just be use it and rampage with the advantage, go into hiding and avoid unnecessary fights while it's recharging so you don't pointlessly risk losing it, then repeat so you're going into every single fight with an advantage. On-receive activated pickups don't have this issue, if you don't grab them as soon as they're available then someone else will and then you have to use them within whatever time span there is.  One obviously promotes defensive play far more than the other.

You could just replace damage boost with a powerup that alters the weapons in the same way the power glove does...just without the "use whenever you want as much as you want" aspect.

Actually you wouldn't even need a timer like other powerups either, just a specific number of affected bullets.  So you can still somewhat pick and choose when to use it but it doesn't promote defensive play because there's no point in hiding since there's no recharge mechanic.  Actually dunno why I bothered clarifying that since that's how power weapons already work.

Plus you know all of that doesn't require a dedicated controller bind and already works the same as other existing mechanics.

This this this.

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1 hour ago, Arlong said:

Reach sniper wasn’t even super easy to use. It wasn’t as hard as h3s but it wasn’t easier than h2,4,&5. 
mahbe we should just stop nerfing shit and just deal with the utility we get. Hells the biggest complaint in h5 was getting upgrades from your spawning tool, even though the weapon we had still kicked ass. We could HAVE just made the default utility the BR, and had a nerf done to it’s AA and rage and it’d HAVE been fine. 

God help you if you ever need to write something important. Read a book, an article, anything where the author is held accountable. Stop writing how you speak. It doesn’t matter here (aside from being painful to read), but one day you’re gonna look really bad on something that does matter. Get mad at me if you want, but I’m right.

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6 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

God help you if you ever need to write something important. Read a book, an article, anything where the author is held accountable. Stop writing how you speak. It doesn’t matter here (aside from being painful to read), but one day you’re gonna look really bad on something that does matter. Get mad at me if you want, but I’m right.

I read books all the time, you act as if everything you write is super intelligent or right every time. This is what Princess talked about before, when what you write isn’t the popular opinion it’s seen as ignorant or flawed, but if YOU were to write what you talk about anywhere else people would say the same to you. We are here, on team beyond because you know what you write isn’t like by the majority but you feel better that you’re among the minority that you see are smarter, more intelligent etc. oh I just realize I summarized basic western society.  
and I will not leave because it’s the most flawed, I’m here because this is a halo forum for those who like the classic halo experience even if we all like that experience for different or similar reasons. 

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19 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Says who? I didn't have to get cute and try to jetpack or sprintslideclamberthrust my way across that chasm, but I did, somebody caught me in the act and shut down my ability use with an overcharge, now I'm falling to my death. The other guy went out of his way to go grab that plasma pistol earlier, now he gets to reap the reward. I didn't have to recklessly sprint into that room, but I did, and somebody used the overcharge to stop me dead in my tracks before finishing me off.

The whole "he picked it up therefore it's okay" idea reminds me of the 'if there is a God why is there evil' question. It just keeps coming up, and no matter how many times it's answered, here it comes again.

Look, you could 'earn' a self-aiming laser gun by picking it up, but you don't then earn every kill you get with it just because you picked up the gun. The weapon itself earns the kill, because it aims itself. Failing to make distinctions in this area leads to Halo 5, where every weapon is stupidly easy to use, borderline un-counterable, and yet, according to this argument, that's all okay because "he went out of his way to get the gun".

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18 hours ago, Arlong said:

Why shouldn’t it? It’s called dishing out double, triple, etc the damage, it is rewarded in every game out there, that has teams, and don’t even try bringing up “halo doesn’t need to be like other games” when that doesn’t even remotely count towards that subject. Team shooting should always be rewarded regardless if it feels annoying. In halo even in CE if both opponents are looking at you you’re not killing both of them. CE simply makes it so you can kill one guy before he can turn around and then have that 1v1, without the need of a grenade or something like in current halo games. There’s this bizarre myth that  CE players believe happens that the CE pistol gives them the ability to kill 2 people full HP and shields  dead eyeing them and shooting when that is not the case. 
Like how can you ask a dumb question like that? How does teamshooting not get rewarded. It’s a faster, easier way to kill an opponent. Heck’s in real life if you were to fight someone but a buddy jumped in your chances of victory are now increased. 
grouping in an mmo means killing that mob is easier, happens quicker. 

to put it Bluntly it just makes SENSE! 

k20z50wm_5ztk7k_jss7b9.png

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8 minutes ago, Xandrith said:

k20z50wm_5ztk7k_jss7b9.png

Lmao is that legit? Damn I just realized what I said haha. Damn photoshop gets me at times. 
So are you just trying to act like what I said was wrong or what? 

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6 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Lmao is that legit? Damn I just realized what I said haha. Damn photoshop gets me at times. 
So are you just trying to act like what I said was wrong or what? 

Just having fun

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4 minutes ago, Xandrith said:

Just having fun

Haha you honestly got me too. 

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17 hours ago, Ramirez77 said:

 I don't like games that restrict my ability to perform by the quality of my teammates

orIqlRK.gif

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2 hours ago, Xandrith said:

The whole "he picked it up therefore it's okay" idea reminds me of the 'if there is a God why is there evil' question. It just keeps coming up, and no matter how many times it's answered, here it comes again.

Kind of like the crapdick self-aiming laser BFG argument that comes up in every power weapon discussion?

Quote

Look, you could 'earn' a self-aiming laser gun by picking it up, but you don't then earn every kill you get with it just because you picked up the gun. The weapon itself earns the kill, because it aims itself. Failing to make distinctions in this area leads to Halo 5, where every weapon is stupidly easy to use, borderline un-counterable, and yet, according to this argument, that's all okay because "he went out of his way to get the gun".

Boy, you must hate the sniper rifle and rocket launcher then. You wouldn't happen to be a member of a certain discord, would you?

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11 hours ago, Arlong said:

Depends on the map I’d say. On midship it’s usually ends in 4-5 minutes, a map like pit around that 8-9 minute mark.

Putting aside the fact that I think you pulled that Midship number out of your ass... if you want to look at fastest maps only, 2v2s on Prisoner and Derelict typically take less than 10 minutes. So we're right back where we started.

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1 hour ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Boy, you must hate the sniper rifle and rocket launcher then. You wouldn't happen to be a member of a certain discord, would you?

Thanks for the free real estate in that noggin of yours.

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1 hour ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Thanks for the free real estate in that noggin of yours.

Would you rather be so forgettable that your posts are ignored?

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3 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Putting aside the fact that I think you pulled that Midship number out of your ass... if you want to look at fastest maps only, 2v2s on Prisoner and Derelict typically take less than 10 minutes. So we're right back where we started.

Well I don’t have any statistical numbers, but from my experience and watching most lan events I’ve noticed games ending at the 9-8:00 mark. Shit goes by pretty damn fast. 

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