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BTB has vehicles while Arena doesn’t.  Invasion having Armor Abilities while Arena doesn’t, doesn’t mean the game is fractured per se.  One of Halo’s selling points is its varied gametype selection.  The sandbox is like an onion.  At its core, you would have the Arena experience but there are layers, more weapons, more vehicles, more abilities, that other game modes use to provide different experiences.  

There is no reason that an amazing Arena experience can’t exist alongside a grand Invasion experience.  

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In BTB, an AR and a DMR spawn in your base.  The Assault Rifle’s Spotting Scope alt fire can temporarily tag an enemy vehicle with a waypoint visible to the team and the DMR’s Armor Piercing Rounds can deal 50% damage to impacted vehicle occupants.  Two teammates could work in tandem to harass enemy vehicle operators. 

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Man my neck hurts with the amount of whiplash I get from reading your posts. You make a good point about something, and then go into how much more interesting Halo would be if it had Power Gloves, Gravity Gauntlets, Armor Piercing Rounds, Classes, Secondary Fire Modes (which almost always involve the Directional Pad), overcomplicated vehicles, Jump Boots, Prometheans...

At this point I wonder if you're secretly a 343 employee and are sharing us info about how fucked the game is with this barrage of nonsense

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6 hours ago, Arlong said:

What would you describe as “getting away with some stuff that I shouldn’t” 

I imagine that would largely depend on the kill times of the sandbox, movement speed, difficulty in shooting, and health model. Non recharging health means it doesn't matter if you skip a hundred yards away after I shoot you, the shot still mattered. Right? 

 

I think the short answer here is you can just tell when you've been cheated. It's inherent to your soul to recognize that kinda stuff. When you're routinely repositioning, getting shots on someone and they repeatedly just back off and survive you know there's an issue. Possibly with the map, but game design takes higher precedent over level design so that's where most problems need to be addressed.

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6 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

It's inherent to your soul to recognize that kinda stuff.

Cheeky

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27 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Secondary Fire Modes (which almost always involve the Directional Pad)

All weapon control is accomplished with the Triggers.  RT fires.  LT scopes or alternate fires.  Weapons no longer reload.  For example: 

Magnum 

RT semi automatically fires projectiles that kill in 4 shots (1.0 seconds) with a headshot or in 8 bodyshots (2.3 seconds).  LT activates a 2x scope.  

Plasma Pistol 

RT semi automatically fires projectiles that kill in 11 shots (1.5 seconds).  Holding then releasing LT charges then fires a homing EMP Bolt that deshields infantry and temporarily stuns vehicles but consumes 50% of the battery and immediately overheats the weapon.

The Y button switches weapons.  Holding Y drops the equipped weapon and re equips a holstered Magnum.  

That’s all the buttons that relate to standard weapon operation.  Yes, the weapon-enhancing Power Glove is activated by Up on the D pad.  I feel it is a good balancing factor.  It prevents players from instantly activating the Power Glove the moment they start getting shot.  Since the player has to stop moving (LS) for a moment to activate Power Glove (Up on D pad), a stationary target would get melted before the weapon enhancement could benefit the user.  

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33 minutes ago, Boyo said:

 Since the player has to stop moving (LS) for a moment to activate Power Glove (Up on D pad), a stationary target would get melted before the weapon enhancement could benefit the user.  

This is the only acceptable use of a D-pad, to activate shit like killstreaks and equipment. But dear god that Power Glove idea is a big yikes from me.

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55 minutes ago, Basu said:

This is the only acceptable use of a D-pad, to activate shit like killstreaks and equipment. But dear god that Power Glove idea is a big yikes from me.

Do you dislike the idea of enhanced weapons or is it that Power Glove is earned through cumulative kills like Ordnance?  

I understand it violates equal starts but I feel like it gives more meaning to individual kills and deaths throughout the match.  In addition, it allows for a swing play where a team tries to turn the tide of the game.  

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How about we start with making a proper Halo game without gimmicky bullshit before we even start thinking about considering the possibility of some sort of gimmicky additions.

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

Do you dislike the idea of enhanced weapons or is it that Power Glove is earned through cumulative kills like Ordnance?  

I understand it violates equal starts but I feel like it gives more meaning to individual kills and deaths throughout the match.  In addition, it allows for a swing play where a team tries to turn the tide of the game.  

You could probably come up with a hundred reasons as to why you like the mechanic, and I could list a thousand benefits of sprint. At the end of the day the idea of something that is just blatantly better than something else, is wrong. All the benefits you listed for the power glove are solving problems that don't exist, I've sat in a dozen design meetings just like that where handfuls of wacky ideas are thrown out that accomplish XYZ. Before you start listing out things it does right I think you need to look and see if it breaks something in the process first. And a lot of things break by introducing what is essentially an ultimate ability. 

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What would break by allowing the utility weapon to kill in one less shot, or for rockets to have a bigger blast radius, for 10 seconds per player per match?

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4 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

I imagine that would largely depend on the kill times of the sandbox, movement speed, difficulty in shooting, and health model. Non recharging health means it doesn't matter if you skip a hundred yards away after I shoot you, the shot still mattered. Right? 

 

I think the short answer here is you can just tell when you've been cheated. It's inherent to your soul to recognize that kinda stuff. When you're routinely repositioning, getting shots on someone and they repeatedly just back off and survive you know there's an issue. Possibly with the map, but game design takes higher precedent over level design so that's where most problems need to be addressed.

I mean it really depends, like I don’t feel cheTed when a guy gets away in halo 2 or reach v7. He was close to cover where escape was possible. Sorry but it’s hRd to use halo 1s super fast TTK as a precedent of what halo is. A lot of people remember a long TTK which they recognize from h2 and h3. I come from the h3 background and I gotta say I prefer a TTK not as quick as .6 seconds regardless if that was all head or not.

cheated to me is usually a shot that would of registered or connected if not due to random spread or bs lag. I prefer a high TTK simply because it rewards a higher skilled player more, and this is seen in apex legends all the time, heck’s that game has a longer Average TTK than halo because of the insane strafe abilities in there, and I’d love to see that in halo. 

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I feel like there's an ultra fine line between a game with a fast TTK, and a game like Halo 3. There has to be a balance in regards to rewarding teamshooting, without reducing the amount of individual skill that's possible to be showcased.

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10 hours ago, Xandrith said:

If we admit something needs to be put in check, then an inherent check is in order. Designing a weapon to counter abilities sounds great, that is, until you're on the other side and can't do a thing about it.

Says who? I didn't have to get cute and try to jetpack or sprintslideclamberthrust my way across that chasm, but I did, somebody caught me in the act and shut down my ability use with an overcharge, now I'm falling to my death. The other guy went out of his way to go grab that plasma pistol earlier, now he gets to reap the reward. I didn't have to recklessly sprint into that room, but I did, and somebody used the overcharge to stop me dead in my tracks before finishing me off.

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49 minutes ago, Hully said:

I feel like there's an ultra fine line between a game with a fast TTK, and a game like Halo 3. There has to be a balance in regards to rewarding teamshooting, without reducing the amount of individual skill that's possible to be showcased.

Why should teamshooting be rewarded?

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1 hour ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Why should teamshooting be rewarded?

Why shouldn’t it? It’s called dishing out double, triple, etc the damage, it is rewarded in every game out there, that has teams, and don’t even try bringing up “halo doesn’t need to be like other games” when that doesn’t even remotely count towards that subject. Team shooting should always be rewarded regardless if it feels annoying. In halo even in CE if both opponents are looking at you you’re not killing both of them. CE simply makes it so you can kill one guy before he can turn around and then have that 1v1, without the need of a grenade or something like in current halo games. There’s this bizarre myth that  CE players believe happens that the CE pistol gives them the ability to kill 2 people full HP and shields  dead eyeing them and shooting when that is not the case. 
Like how can you ask a dumb question like that? How does teamshooting not get rewarded. It’s a faster, easier way to kill an opponent. Heck’s in real life if you were to fight someone but a buddy jumped in your chances of victory are now increased. 
grouping in an mmo means killing that mob is easier, happens quicker. 

to put it Bluntly it just makes SENSE! 

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32 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Why shouldn’t it? It’s called dishing out double, triple, etc the damage, it is rewarded in every game out there, that has teams, and don’t even try bringing up “halo doesn’t need to be like other games” when that doesn’t even remotely count towards that subject.

Halo doesn't need to be like other games.

32 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Team shooting should always be rewarded regardless if it feels annoying. In halo even in CE if both opponents are looking at you you’re not killing both of them. CE simply makes it so you can kill one guy before he can turn around and then have that 1v1, without the need of a grenade or something like in current halo games. There’s this bizarre myth that  CE players believe happens that the CE pistol gives them the ability to kill 2 people full HP and shields  dead eyeing them and shooting when that is not the case. 
Like how can you ask a dumb question like that? How does teamshooting not get rewarded. It’s a faster, easier way to kill an opponent. Heck’s in real life if you were to fight someone but a buddy jumped in your chances of victory are now increased. 
grouping in an mmo means killing that mob is easier, happens quicker. 

to put it Bluntly it just makes SENSE! 

If you and your teammate(s) decide that all staring and firing at the same guy is the best way to accomplish whatever your goal is at that particular moment, then so be it. But why should the base weapon's kill time - and, by extension, the entire game - be slowed down in order to encourage that behavior?

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10 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Halo doesn't need to be like other games.

If you and your teammate(s) decide that all staring and firing at the same guy is the best way to accomplish whatever your goal is at that particular moment, then so be it. But why should the base weapon's kill time - and, by extension, the entire game - be slowed down in order to encourage that behavior?

1. You’re a smart ass

2. It’s not slowed down just because teamshot is encouraging. Sorry you’re playing a game with shields and more hp than most games so it’s bound to happen. We still have utility weapons that give you the ability to dominate in every halo, just not as nearly as quick as you liked in CE. You simply don’t like the fact that it’s somewhat needed to pull off kills so you feel cheated. We’re noW back to what multi had said on feeling cheated. I’d imagine when playing the other games you think “if the weapon I have was stronger or simply a faster TTK or hells the CE pistol that player would of died. I’d of been able to kill this guy even though I was one shot but because the weapon is too weak I can’t win. 

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Someone here commented that they don’t like the dmrs scope because it’s close to sniper range, and yet they like the CE pistol because with it they can fight a sniper without the player staying still to line up a shot. Hypocrite 

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10 hours ago, Boyo said:

BTB has vehicles while Arena doesn’t.  Invasion having Armor Abilities while Arena doesn’t, doesn’t mean the game is fractured per se.  One of Halo’s selling points is its varied gametype selection.  The sandbox is like an onion.  At its core, you would have the Arena experience but there are layers, more weapons, more vehicles, more abilities, that other game modes use to provide different experiences.  

There is no reason that an amazing Arena experience can’t exist alongside a grand Invasion experience.  

I mean I *could* argue BTB already has damaged Halos identity if I wanted to be petty.

I feel like you're bordering on a false equivalence here.  Halo has always had tons of variation but it's variations on a base experience.  These modes all play the same on the most basic mechanical level...well aside from invasion but I could say that's how we arrived at this problem to begin with,and even invasion wasn't as radically different as some of these ideas.  You're not shoving two entirely different games into a single package and creating entirely separate fanbases with no overlap in the same space.

BTB is just upscaled slayer with new map items, the core combat mechanics are the same.  Competitive 4v4 fans still dabble in BTB and vice-versa.  Once you start adding sprint, ADS, weapon attachments, instant killtimes, so on it becomes more than that...people begin wondering why arena lacks these things and division ensues.  And yes I realize that how much difference is too different to be reconciled is a giant subjective grey area but it's worth considering.

And as I said we've already witnessed the results with Halo 5 and the community now.

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12 minutes ago, Arlong said:

2. It’s not slowed down just because teamshot is encouraging. Sorry you’re playing a game with shields and more hp than most games so it’s bound to happen. We still have utility weapons that give you the ability to dominate in every halo, just not as nearly as quick as you liked in CE. You simply don’t like the fact that it’s somewhat needed to pull off kills so you feel cheated. We’re noW back to what multi had said on feeling cheated. I’d imagine when playing the other games you think “if the weapon I have was stronger or simply a faster TTK or hells the CE pistol that player would of died. I’d of been able to kill this guy even though I was one shot but because the weapon is too weak I can’t win. 

An average 2v2 slayer match to 50 kills in Halo CE takes about 11-12 minutes I want to say. An average 4v4 slayer match to 50 kills in every game since among evenly matched teams takes what, 8-9 minutes (and that's me being generous)? With twice as many kill opportunities due to the player count? That looks pretty slowed down to me.

The rest of this appears to be you just babbling on about nothing again.

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58 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Someone here commented that they don’t like the dmrs scope because it’s close to sniper range, and yet they like the CE pistol because with it they can fight a sniper without the player staying still to line up a shot. Hypocrite 

Could we not with the "Gotcha!!!" shit?

Let's run down the list here...

I think Ce's reticle somewhat adds to the challenge of using it but if it has to be changed to something more intuitive like the H5 reticle then go ahead?  You seem to be under the impression we want an exact 1:1 replica of the Magnum down to the low poly model itself.  No dude we just want the fast killtime and challenge of use.  I'm not going to die on the hill of something so minor as the crosshair appearance or gun appearance.  The Ce Mag isn't a perfect gun, when we say its perfect what we mean is it's an ideal foundation.

The DMR is a hitscan gun with higher aim assist and more zoom magnification.  I can believe the Pistol should be able to challenge the Sniper while still actually being difficult to takedown the sniper, unlike the DMR.  That's not "hypocritical", it's nuance.

People DO get 2v1 reversals?  Why even try to deny this...

"Why shouldn't team shotting be rewarded?"  There's valid viewpoints on both sides here but ultimately I don't like games that restrict my ability to perform by the quality of my teammates?  Games where I can be the most skilled player on earth but still lose because the enemy had good synergy while the glue licker I'm paired with doesn't.  "But teamwork is a skill too and " yes yes not getting into that circular debate.

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10 hours ago, Boyo said:

Do you dislike the idea of enhanced weapons or is it that Power Glove is earned through cumulative kills like Ordnance?  

I understand it violates equal starts but I feel like it gives more meaning to individual kills and deaths throughout the match.  In addition, it allows for a swing play where a team tries to turn the tide of the game.  

If it's a neutral power up that enhances rof, bottomless clip or maybe damage (this historically never worked with Halo because it breaks the sandbox) then to ahead. But it's the fact that people are awarded buffs for simply playing the game AND the fact they get to choose when to use it. In your ideal scenario you always mention this as the perfect setup breaker but this doesn't work if people also get this buff if they never move and hold S3 on Guardian all game long. 

People will probably play even more passive and wait for the "they're pushing" callout to activate the glove. 

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7 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

An average 2v2 slayer match to 50 kills in Halo CE takes about 11-12 minutes I want to say. An average 4v4 slayer match to 50 kills in every game since among evenly matched teams takes what, 8-9 minutes (and that's me being generous)? With twice as many kill opportunities due to the player count? That looks pretty slowed down to me.

The rest of this appears to be you just babbling on about nothing again.

Depends on the map I’d say. On midship it’s usually ends in 4-5 minutes, a map like pit around that 8-9 minute mark. Heck’s In CE you’re constantly using power ups and weapons that force you to move every minute, and I can understand why some like that. Although I’m not a fan of power ups, I am a fan of the one minute power weapons since it does speed up the game.  I think power ups being every 2 minutes would be ok. 

It’s not fair to judge a game based on when games end because many factors are to be taken into account. 

7 hours ago, Ramirez77 said:

Could we not with the "Gotcha!!!" shit?

Let's run down the list here...

I think Ce's reticle somewhat adds to the challenge of using it but if it has to be changed to something more intuitive like the H5 reticle then go ahead?  You seem to be under the impression we want an exact 1:1 replica of the Magnum down to the low poly model itself.  No dude we just want the fast killtime and challenge of use.  I'm not going to die on the hill of something so minor as the crosshair appearance or gun appearance.  The Ce Mag isn't a perfect gun, when we say its perfect what we mean is it's an ideal foundation.

The DMR is a hitscan gun with higher aim assist and more zoom magnification.  I can believe the Pistol should be able to challenge the Sniper while still actually being difficult to takedown the sniper, unlike the DMR.  That's not "hypocritical", it's nuance.

People DO get 2v1 reversals?  Why even try to deny this...

"Why shouldn't team shotting be rewarded?"  There's valid viewpoints on both sides here but ultimately I don't like games that restrict my ability to perform by the quality of my teammates?  Games where I can be the most skilled player on earth but still lose because the enemy had good synergy while the glue licker I'm paired with doesn't.  "But teamwork is a skill too and " yes yes not getting into that circular debate.

I mean a developer easily could make the dmr projectile, and no they do not, not on two full shielded opponents who are straight dead eying and shooting(you do know what I mean by dead eye right?) I’d also say a cross hair appearance can mean a lot in many games thus why people always ask for a customizable reticule, but that’s just personal preference at the end of the day. 

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