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Halo Infinite Discussion

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1 minute ago, Basu said:

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This image gives me nightmare flashbacks to MW3 pubs when everyone was using this, as well as motion tracker. 

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18 minutes ago, Basu said:

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Oh shi-

 

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Speaking of radar... when there is radar, who wishes we still had the muddy radar of Halo 2?  I know i do.  I don't think it should be so clean, or tell you elevation.  

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9 hours ago, Shekkles said:

I have no issues with footsteps being audible and directional. In games like Squad and Insurgency they only add to the game. In a game like Halo it does put people without headphones at a disadvantage, but that's not through fault in game design.

I don't think it needs to be super loud though. Being able to hear people within 10-15m max should be sufficient.

People have to understand that most people play solo with no mic and other people muted. Even if you don't like people that play that way, it doesn't matter. That's the reality. So giving information to those players is a necessity.

Radar is iconic for Halo, but entirely unnecessary. You can have it in socials for newer/casual players but in competitive it's a bit rich.

That’s exactly what I want, I’m not asking to hear the steps of a guy from top mid when I’m in blue base 

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Shotguns and Pellet Count 

The Mauler fires 7 pellets per shot, killing in 14 pellets.  

The Shotgun fires 19 pellets per shot, killing in 15 pellets.  

Why 7/14 and 19/15?  Let’s take a look at circle packing in a circle and the shape of the player model.  

 

Disk_pack7.svg

 

If that pattern expanded, the first two pellets to miss are going to be the far left and the far right because the player model is taller than it is wide.  7 pellets can hit at very close range, 5 pellets can hit at close range, and 1 pellet can hit at medium range.  

7 pellets per shot and 14 pellets to kill require 2 very close range shots or 3 close range shots to kill.  The Mauler doesn’t have a particularly fast rate of fire so a quicker way to kill is to fire once then melee.  If all 7 pellets land, the follow up bleedthrough melee is lethal.  

 

Disk_pack19.svg

 

If that pattern expanded, the first four pellets to miss are the two on the far left and two on the far right because the player model is taller than it is wide.  19 pellets per shot and 15 pellets to kill mean that the user can miss those four pellets and still get a kill.  

All pellets except the center one disappear after a short distance.  The center pellet is perfectly accurate and could potentially be used to descope a distant sniper if aimed correctly.  

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13 hours ago, Arlong said:

Ok let me ask a question here no ones thiking of? Who’s happy? The flanker or the guy getting flanked? Trust me you ain’t having both?

I don't think the person that died is ever happy

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11 hours ago, JordanB said:

I don't think the person that died is ever happy

Don’t be a smart ass, smart ass.

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On 9/26/2019 at 10:32 AM, Arlong said:

I think it makes it better, but maybe I’m judging from my experiences with BRS, I’ve never found it to be an issue in halo

That's an understandable perspective coming from BR's. You're working with a lot less information and a lot more variables in those types of games. Halo, or even CoD, is a different story. In Halo, you're expected to know where your team is and where the enemy is likely to come from. At any given time, there isn't a large number of different routes or options available to your opposition. If you get flanked in Halo, you really deserve it.

When you start introducing mechanics that benefit the passive player, then players will be more inclined to play passively, which leads to either super boring gameplay in Slayer, or frustratingly cheesy gameplay in obj. This gets compounded by the fact that this mechanic is much easier to abuse for players that have purchased an expensive headset. That is quite literally "pay to win".

Halo 4 had a big problem with footstep sounds in 2v2, and especially 1v1. The same problem was present in other game sizes, but was masked by the chaos surrounding it. But every now and then, you'd be gifted some incredibly useful information that you don't really deserve, just because the game decided to punish players for moving. So every now and then, you'd get these isolated incidents of some super cheesy gameplay that punished the aggressive player for no good reason. It's really indefensible. What argument can you make? "Fuck that guy for moving? That's what he gets for progressing the game?"

I guess what I'm curious about, is what situation would you consider footstep sounds beneficial to gameplay in Halo? If I'm camping my flag on, say...Exile (or some other low traffic, important, fairly safe location), should I be able to hear you coming?

Here's a question for everyone here: How would you guys feel about binding footstep volume to radar? I wouldn't mind it so much if it's just giving me an audio version of what I can already see on my radar. But if radar is turned off, footstep sounds are severely dampened.

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in what scenarios are you being punished? Like seriously what? Oh you can’t get that back smack off, or something? Or Are you being naded? 

The whole point of footstep sounds is so we have fair engagements? Such as your typical 1v1 gun/strafe fights than the lucky throw a grenade and one shot kill. This is so you can prep for that shit. Heck’s sound whoring also helps find the campers, who be crouching. Not my fault your ass plays on some big ass tv blasting music, when I got a hyper x headset.

theres no such thing as EQUAL playing field in gaming. Monitor is literally pay to win. Faster response time. Stfu with that bs. Scuf controller? Yeah basically p2w. It’s called having an advantage. It’s your choice not to use a headset, it’s also your choice to refuse to buy one. Get a Razer kracken that headset is 60-80$ and one the best, too in terms of sound. 

The footstep noises gives me the ability to prepare for my attacker. It doesn’t give me an instant win like you keep suggesting. You’re just getting less of those back smack, or free kills.

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41 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

That's an understandable perspective coming from BR's. You're working with a lot less information and a lot more variables in those types of games. Halo, or even CoD, is a different story. In Halo, you're expected to know where your team is and where the enemy is likely to come from. At any given time, there isn't a large number of different routes or options available to your opposition. If you get flanked in Halo, you really deserve it.

When you start introducing mechanics that benefit the passive player, then players will be more inclined to play passively, which leads to either super boring gameplay in Slayer, or frustratingly cheesy gameplay in obj. This gets compounded by the fact that this mechanic is much easier to abuse for players that have purchased an expensive headset. That is quite literally "pay to win".

Halo 4 had a big problem with footstep sounds in 2v2, and especially 1v1. The same problem was present in other game sizes, but was masked by the chaos surrounding it. But every now and then, you'd be gifted some incredibly useful information that you don't really deserve, just because the game decided to punish players for moving. So every now and then, you'd get these isolated incidents of some super cheesy gameplay that punished the aggressive player for no good reason. It's really indefensible. What argument can you make? "Fuck that guy for moving? That's what he gets for progressing the game?"

I guess what I'm curious about, is what situation would you consider footstep sounds beneficial to gameplay in Halo? If I'm camping my flag on, say...Exile (or some other low traffic, important, fairly safe location), should I be able to hear you coming?

Here's a question for everyone here: How would you guys feel about binding footstep volume to radar? I wouldn't mind it so much if it's just giving me an audio version of what I can already see on my radar. But if radar is turned off, footstep sounds are severely dampened.

For me its more about the volume of the foot steps and the distance that you can hear them from. Ideally I would want them quiet enough that if you're moving and not paying EXTRA close attention you'll never hear it. I also wouldn't want someone to be able to hear you coming from very far off. To me I can only respect it when there are multiple angles and the player is so close that you need to make a really fast decision when you do realize whats going on. It would be lame if you're sitting on flag and hear someone walking through lobby on Narrows so you just wait 3-4 seconds in the back of flag to assassinate them. Basically if its loud enough/the sound carries from far enough away that players begin to just stand still and listen then it was far too loud. Moving and looking around should always be the best way to feel out the map. Loud enough to punish/eventually notice someone just following you attempting a backsmack for 3-4 seconds is fine with me though because I feel like it helps create that moment of decision making around either going in for the backsmack or shooting/throwing a grenade while they're still looking away maybe you'd even try to jump so they don't hear the last couple of steps. Its sort of related/unrelated but this is also why Elamite is a super good caster sometimes. He really goes into what players are thinking when they challenge or breaks down the small details of what a player decided to do when confronted with decisions like this once in awhile

Footsteps aren't really the biggest deal in most Halos anyways. Its when people begin jumping/falling and swapping weapons that you're really going to hear them from pretty far off as long as its not some post Reach bs. Hearing that weapon swap off spawn in CE really is just stupid

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33 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

For me its more about the volume of the foot steps and the distance that you can hear them from. Ideally I would want them quiet enough that if you're moving and not paying EXTRA close attention you'll never hear it. I also wouldn't want someone to be able to hear you coming from very far off. To me I can only respect it when there are multiple angles and the player is so close that you need to make a really fast decision when you do realize whats going on. It would be lame if you're sitting on flag and hear someone walking through lobby on Narrows so you just wait 3-4 seconds in the back of flag to assassinate them. Basically if its loud enough/the sound carries from far enough away that players begin to just stand still and listen then it was far too loud. Moving and looking around should always be the best way to feel out the map. Loud enough to punish/eventually notice someone just following you attempting a backsmack for 3-4 seconds is fine with me though because I feel like it helps create that moment of decision making around either going in for the backsmack or shooting/throwing a grenade while they're still looking away maybe you'd even try to jump so they don't hear the last couple of steps. Its sort of related/unrelated but this is also why Elamite is a super good caster sometimes. He really goes into what players are thinking when they challenge or breaks down the small details of what a player decided to do when confronted with decisions like this once in awhile

Footsteps aren't really the biggest deal in most Halos anyways. Its when people begin jumping/falling and swapping weapons that you're really going to hear them from pretty far off as long as its not some post Reach bs. Hearing that weapon swap off spawn in CE really is just stupid

Exactly this. Footsteps aren’t even super loud in halo, and not even in h4-5 where they were the loudest. I just want some footsteps that are hearable only if you pay close attention or something. Which we have. 

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44 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Halo 5 footsteps sound like Lars Ulrich's snare drum on St. Anger.

I love this reference.

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@Boyo

So, i had an idea, kind of inspired by a real life varmint gun.

Redesign the Shotgun so the center pellet is an actual bullet/slug that by itself is a moderate damage, slow firing four or five shot kill, and redesign the crosshair to compensate (tiny circle inside of giant circle).  It still has the surrounding pellets otherwise and functions basically the same in CQC (one shot kill at point blank with center bullet and all pellets, 2sk/3sk a tiny ways out with center bullet and/or most pellets).

This allows the Shotgun to still be usable at extended ranges, but obviously still the inferior choice to the actual dedicated ranged weapons.

Alternatively a very tight inner circle of pellets and a very wide outer ring would accomplish much the same, just without the infinite range.

It never completely sat right with me that the Sniper was at least usable in CQC but inverse wasn't true of the Shotgun.

The weapons would all still have clearly defined roles, just the relation between them would be smoother and less rock paper scissors.  Like if you can't snipe someone by the time he gets four shotgun pulls off (that's three entire seconds) you deserved to die anyways.

At any rate though I agree, fixed patterns need to happen asap.  Random spread on shotguns is so pointless and just the bane of my existence. 

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5 hours ago, Ramirez77 said:

Alternatively a very tight inner circle of pellets and a very wide outer ring would accomplish much the same, just without the infinite range.

Both this and a relatively high damage center slug.

 

jvVtfJw_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&f

 

O - outer ring of shotgun pellets 

I - inner ring of shotgun pellets 

S - infinite range center slug 

 

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6 hours ago, Ramirez77 said:

@Boyo

So, i had an idea, kind of inspired by a real life varmint gun.

Redesign the Shotgun so the center pellet is an actual bullet/slug that by itself is a moderate damage, slow firing four or five shot kill, and redesign the crosshair to compensate (tiny circle inside of giant circle).  It still has the surrounding pellets otherwise and functions basically the same in CQC (one shot kill at point blank with center bullet and all pellets, 2sk/3sk a tiny ways out with center bullet and/or most pellets).

This allows the Shotgun to still be usable at extended ranges, but obviously still the inferior choice to the actual dedicated ranged weapons.

Alternatively a very tight inner circle of pellets and a very wide outer ring would accomplish much the same, just without the infinite range.

It never completely sat right with me that the Sniper was at least usable in CQC but inverse wasn't true of the Shotgun.

The weapons would all still have clearly defined roles, just the relation between them would be smoother and less rock paper scissors.  Like if you can't snipe someone by the time he gets four shotgun pulls off (that's three entire seconds) you deserved to die anyways.

At any rate though I agree, fixed patterns need to happen asap.  Random spread on shotguns is so pointless and just the bane of my existence. 

Just keep the shotgun as the same as h5 but with a smaller reticule. 

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11 hours ago, Arlong said:

Exactly this. Footsteps aren’t even super loud in halo, and not even in h4-5 where they were the loudest. I just want some footsteps that are hearable only if you pay close attention or something. Which we have. 

I judged the 1v1 contest for Forgehub and footsteps are so god damn loud that by the final few rounds no one would move, ever. And we had to come to a gentlemen's agreement where we played on really low volume and had other ambient noise or music in the background. It's a radar you can't turn off. There were times when we were both sitting still on opposite sides of the same wall and I only heard the other player because he TURNED his character model, and Halo 5 has this obnoxious jiggling clanking noise for every tiny movement and I was able to find them because they didn't quite literally take their hands off the remote. If you don't think Halo 4 / 5 have loud character effects then I think you might have hearing problems. 

 

In 4s it's less of an issue because there's a lot more ambient noise going on but in 2s it starts to show. 

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11 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Halo 5 footsteps sound like Lars Ulrich's snare drum on St. Anger.

Honestly they always reminded me of horse hooves..

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H1 on MCC has a similar problem. The last time I played ranked, I legit thought my opponent could somehow see me through walls. It was on Chill Out, and I had just gotten camo about 20 seconds after the cycle. I went to check pink hall, saw no one was coming, and went to go out the front door into main. I did not fire a shot to quick cloak. As I'm headed to the door to go into main room, about 26 seconds after the cycle, boom, prediction rocket.  That just doesn't happen that long after stuff spawns. 

Later in the same game, I found myself in a similar situation. He had rockets, I had camo, fairly deep into the cycle.  I was anticipating him porting into camo, and was playing behind the exit. I was not meleeing, jumping, or anything.  I gave up on it and started to head toward the doorway again, but I was way more suspicious this time, and I faked it. I stopped and backed up, and sure enough, I baited out another prediction rocket as it comes sailing into the doorway, like 32 seconds after the cycle. WHAT. THE. HELL.

I come to find out that he wasn't glass walling or whatever else it felt like he was doing at the time. Dude just had his headphones cranked and could hear me moving in camo room from double doors. That is completely unacceptable.

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On 9/28/2019 at 1:49 PM, Hard Way said:

H1 on MCC has a similar problem. The last time I played ranked, I legit thought my opponent could somehow see me through walls. It was on Chill Out, and I had just gotten camo about 20 seconds after the cycle. I went to check pink hall, saw no one was coming, and went to go out the front door into main. I did not fire a shot to quick cloak. As I'm headed to the door to go into main room, about 26 seconds after the cycle, boom, prediction rocket.  That just doesn't happen that long after stuff spawns. 

Later in the same game, I found myself in a similar situation. He had rockets, I had camo, fairly deep into the cycle.  I was anticipating him porting into camo, and was playing behind the exit. I was not meleeing, jumping, or anything.  I gave up on it and started to head toward the doorway again, but I was way more suspicious this time, and I faked it. I stopped and backed up, and sure enough, I baited out another prediction rocket as it comes sailing into the doorway, like 32 seconds after the cycle. WHAT. THE. HELL.

I come to find out that he wasn't glass walling or whatever else it felt like he was doing at the time. Dude just had his headphones cranked and could hear me moving in camo room from double doors. That is completely unacceptable.

Shit happens, camo makes you invisible, doesn’t mean I can’t hear your punk ass.

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Seems to me y’all hate footsteps because you can’t move as freely as you’d want without detection. Sorry but you’re not ninjas. Your footsteps shouldn’t be super loud, but loud enough where if you’re in a room like blue room and you’re above me I’d hear you. 

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

Seems to me y’all hate footsteps because you can’t move as freely as you’d want without detection. Sorry but you’re not ninjas. Your footsteps shouldn’t be super loud, but loud enough where if you’re in a room like blue room and you’re above me I’d hear you. 

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad. 

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4 hours ago, Arlong said:

Seems to me y’all hate footsteps because you can’t move as freely as you’d want without detection. Sorry but you’re not ninjas. Your footsteps shouldn’t be super loud, but loud enough where if you’re in a room like blue room and you’re above me I’d hear you. 

And you have shit awareness and need the game to hold your hand. Use. Your. Eyes.

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3 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad. 

Your bad at the game and should feel bad.

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