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2 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Nothing in Halo 3 is ugly you take that back.

Rats nest is just brown roads and brown walls. It's ugly. Halo 3's engine is a masterwork of lighting and art but the brown pack (Foundry, Standoff and Rat's Nest) are all dull and ugly (talking pure aesthetics).

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1 hour ago, Shekkles said:

Rats nest is just brown roads and brown walls. It's ugly. Halo 3's engine is a masterwork of lighting and art but the brown pack (Foundry, Standoff and Rat's Nest) are all dull and ugly (talking pure aesthetics). 

Yeah the UNSC architecture just isn't really aesthetically pleasing. Even the Pit and high ground aren't that great, they just do a better job than the others you mentioned.

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5 hours ago, Arlong said:

There were lots of skill jumps in h5 that are still difficult to do without practice. 

Theres ghost jumping in h2 and h3 which is the same thing as clamber except it actually took skill. U couldnt jump too high or too low, you had to come at whatever it is from an exact height. U had to be crouching then uncrouch and jump in a tight window. That is what takes skill and it can do anything skillful clamber can do without the “oh i fell off, let me hold x”. And best part is you can design whether u want ur wall to be ghost jumpable or not. Clamber didnt give many fucks. 

 

Clamber was implemented so horribly. 

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9 hours ago, Nokt said:

Clamber is nothing more than holding a button and looking in a broad direction. There isn't skill involved in it.

No it’s not. There’s skill jumps in h5 I promise you can’t do, without messing up. Like I know I can’t do em without practice. 

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6 hours ago, Riddler said:

Theres ghost jumping in h2 and h3 which is the same thing as clamber except it actually took skill. U couldnt jump too high or too low, you had to come at whatever it is from an exact height. U had to be crouching then uncrouch and jump in a tight window. That is what takes skill and it can do anything skillful clamber can do without the “oh i fell off, let me hold x”. And best part is you can design whether u want ur wall to be ghost jumpable or not. Clamber didnt give many fucks. 

 

Clamber was implemented so horribly. 

Does it honestly matter that you can press a button to do a specific jump? It’s not as if that jump was something anyone could do.  For example the skill jump on regret going from bottom mid to top mid. You couldn’t just do that. Denying the existence of the skill jumps in h5 is ridiculous. We could easily still have ghost jumps in halo, with crouching. There were jumps on plaza and regret that were done decently well. I only hate clamber because 343 designed the maps to force you to use it all the damn time. 

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What Shotzzy could do was impressive because of what he did without clamber. 

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Clamber was literally added because Frankie sucks at jumping and felt bad about it. Does H5 have "tech?" Absolutely, but the skill comes from combining all the different abilities in rapid fashion and doing so under pressure plus finding original routes and shit. Not because "press A to win" is a good or original mechanic.

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@Arlong

Clamber is like Sprint.  If map designers wanted players to be able to make a jump, they would allow players to make the jump with the base jump height (or crouch jump which is seamless).  If the goal is to allow players to make a jump, how does adding a clamber animation in the middle of the jump improve gameplay?  How does disabling players’ ability to attack so they can move around the map improve gameplay?

Clamber is activated by pressing the Jump button while airborne right?  A Jetpack pick up would be a better use of “Jump while airborne”.  Not everything has to be a base trait.  In fact, Halo’s base traits should be bland because that is what makes the sandbox shine, the contrast.  Everything a player is should be determined by his gear.  He gets that gear by picking it up off the map.  

Anyway, a Jetpack pick up is better than a Clamber base trait because it causes players to move to pick it up then alters how a player who picks it up moves.  Unlike a power up, a pick up like Jetpack has recharging fuel so it can be used repeatedly, as long as the user stays alive.  Most importantly, jetpacking doesn’t disable the user’s ability to attack while allowing the user to accomplish all that clamber did and more.  

We already have crouch jump and spring jump.  Clamber is an unnecessary additional level of jump.  

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30 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

What Shotzzy could do was impressive because of what he did without clamber. 

He also did a lot of impressive stuff with it, that no one else could do, at least not on as accurate or frequent

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10 minutes ago, Boyo said:

@Arlong

Clamber is like Sprint.  If map designers wanted players to be able to make a jump, they would allow players to make the jump with the base jump height (or crouch jump which is seamless).  If the goal is to allow players to make a jump, how does adding a clamber animation in the middle of the jump improve gameplay?  How does disabling players’ ability to attack so they can move around the map improve gameplay?

Clamber is activated by pressing the Jump button while airborne right?  A Jetpack pick up would be a better use of “Jump while airborne”.  Not everything has to be a base trait.  In fact, Halo’s base traits should be bland because that is what makes the sandbox shine, the contrast.  Everything a player is should be determined by his gear.  He gets that gear by picking it up off the map.  

Anyway, a Jetpack pick up is better than a Clamber base trait because it causes players to move to pick it up then alters how a player who picks it up moves.  Unlike a power up, a pick up like Jetpack has recharging fuel so it can be used repeatedly, as long as the user stays alive.  Most importantly, jetpacking doesn’t disable the user’s ability to attack while allowing the user to accomplish all that clamber did and more.  

We already have crouch jump and spring jump.  Clamber is an unnecessary additional level of jump.  

So is the main issue here the fact we can’t fight while doing it? 

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1 minute ago, Arlong said:

So is the main issue here the fact we can’t fight while doing it? 

The main issue is we already have Jump and higher jump (crouch jump).  What is clamber adding that couldn’t be accomplished with two jump heights already?

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Clamber is just an "oh shit" button for missing jumps.

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Clamber is at best redundant with existing movement mechanics that also lead to skill jumps, and at worst a crutch for missed jumps AND something that gets in the way of shooting.

It adds nothing of value. 

Like the "skill" in clamber jumps doesn't come from clamber.  You press sprint, thrust, stabilize, and crouch at the perfect times to get the exact spot you need to be...then you hold down the A button to automatically finish it off with a wide margin of error.  The set up for clamber jumps is the skillful part, the finalizing clamber adds nothing.  

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

No it’s not. There’s skill jumps in h5 I promise you can’t do, without messing up. Like I know I can’t do em without practice. 

I understand that, but clamber is not why those jumps are challenging. It’s every other aspect of the jump.

Also, let’s not ignore that having clamber eliminates the fear of missing basic jumps or falling off ledges. That’s kind of a big deal. In fact, that alone outweighs any kind of argument one could make in favor of clamber raising the skill ceiling.

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25 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I understand that, but clamber is not why those jumps are challenging. It’s every other aspect of the jump.

Also, let’s not ignore that having clamber eliminates the fear of missing basic jumps or falling off ledges. That’s kind of a big deal. In fact, that alone outweighs any kind of argument one could make in favor of clamber raising the skill ceiling.

But you have to hit the right spot in order to clamber them

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13 minutes ago, TeeJaY said:

"I gotta work on my clamber" - no one ever

Did anyone say that crouching 

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16 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Did anyone say that crouching 

Probably not. But my argument isn't that crouch jumping is more skillful. It's that clamber removes the consequences of missing jumps. That's why it lowers the skill gap

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10 minutes ago, TeeJaY said:

Probably not. But my argument isn't that crouch jumping is more skillful. It's that clamber removes the consequences of missing jumps. That's why it lowers the skill gap

Soooooooo 

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

Did anyone say that crouching 

Gotta grind S1 - S2 guardian. Gotta learn G1 - G2 so I don't get melted going up the lift every time. 

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1 hour ago, II7 HUNTER II7 said:

Gotta grind S1 - S2 guardian. Gotta learn G1 - G2 so I don't get melted going up the lift every time. 

Yep I've seen Evader practice ghost jumps plenty of times. 

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10 hours ago, Arlong said:

Does it honestly matter that you can press a button to do a specific jump? It’s not as if that jump was something anyone could do.  For example the skill jump on regret going from bottom mid to top mid. You couldn’t just do that. Denying the existence of the skill jumps in h5 is ridiculous. We could easily still have ghost jumps in halo, with crouching. There were jumps on plaza and regret that were done decently well. I only hate clamber because 343 designed the maps to force you to use it all the damn time. 

The jump itself is maybe skill. But Clamber is not part of the skill. Clamber is holding A at the end. They could have designed skillful jumps without clamber

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