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Halo Infinite Discussion

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4 hours ago, Arlong said:

I don’t believe many of you play btb often, but more or less will play it if someone brings it up(I’m assuming so I could be wrong) but btb in halo doesn’t feel off.

I grew up playing "BTB" on Halo PC.

It doesn't need sprint.  I never once felt it did.  Good map design, which you actually see in custom maps, is all that is needed.

Timberland is an excellent example on so many levels.  You don't need Sprint to reach cover when rocks and trees and hard to drive up hills are everywhere.  Those same hills are circled by vehicle tracks that extend time of travel for vehicles while infantry can cross them straight.

Danger Canyon is iffy in execution but good in concept.  Short infantry tunnels from base to base, wide outer ring for vehicle passage.  

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Unpopular opinion: CE's BTB maps are a total disaster aside from Timberland. Sidewinder, Danger Canyon and Ice Fields have some solid ideas going on but fail in their execution, especially the insane amount of no man's land really hurts them.

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I'll be honest, aside from the hornets I thought avalanche was better than sidewinder.

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Gephyrophobia: Yeah, sucked.

Death Island: the top center is good up until you realize the only way back down is to awkwardly slide down the cliffs without killing yourself or take the long path back down.  Plus a lot of areas that just don't get used at all, like the area where you fight the Hunters in the campaign.

Danger Canyon:  The tunnels are slightly too campy but this is almost a good thing in that it encourages taking the long way or going around to clear them out for your team.  Still I think what I would do is place two ramps heading into the tunnels from your base instead of just one, or widen that tunnel, so people can't just constantly spam nades there, and some ladders in the fuel rod room leading up to the balconies, would probably make it flow much better without completely removing that aspect of controlling the tunnels.

Sidewinder: You shut your whore mouth.  No really I don't get the preference for Avalanche.  The middle portion of the map is better designed sure but the mancannon / teleport edges are just such a massive downgrade.  Sidewinder had the option of taking the middle or the teleport edges but Avalanche really only has the middle.  If you could preserve Avalanche's middle and redesign the teleport edges of Sidewinder to be less risky to pass through it would be golden.

Ice Fields: I don't really see much wrong with it personally.  I guess you could say Meltdown is better.

Infinity: Eh.  Sucks for infantry but it's not really supposed to be an Infantry map.  Lot of cool things I enjoy about it like landing from banshee on top of rocket ledges and sniping people, but no idea how I would fix it up for infantry without fundamentally redesigning massive swathes of it.

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Coagulation is absolute garbage and so is Hemorrhage cmv

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3 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Coagulation is absolute garbage and so is Hemorrhage cmv

I don’t think Coagulation is meant to be much more than a test bed, tutorial level of sorts.  When I first got Halo 2, people would come over all the time to play it.  A lot of times we played Coag because people liked flying the Banshees.  It’s an easy to understand playspace that supports flying vehicles.  I don’t think these maps are meant for hardcore scrutiny.  

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19 minutes ago, Boyo said:

I don’t think Coagulation is meant to be much more than a test bed, tutorial level of sorts.  When I first got Halo 2, people would come over all the time to play it.  A lot of times we played Coag because people liked flying the Banshees.  It’s an easy to understand playspace that supports flying vehicles.  I don’t think these maps are meant for hardcore scrutiny.  

Coag is fine for what it is.  We mainly played it on LAN in the dorms and it was super fun but that was because it was very casual.  Games lasted forever.  drinks were had. people got laughed at. its another "fine" map that can be fun af in the right setting. but yeah if you try to scritinize it from a fairness or competitiveness standpoint, its going to shit the bed hard.

 

I think the far more important aspect of quality BTB play even over map design is having fair weapons and vehicles.  Map design gets more and more crucial the smaller the map and smaller the team size.

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5 hours ago, Ramirez77 said:

I grew up playing "BTB" on Halo PC.

It doesn't need sprint.  I never once felt it did.  Good map design, which you actually see in custom maps, is all that is needed.

Timberland is an excellent example on so many levels.  You don't need Sprint to reach cover when rocks and trees and hard to drive up hills are everywhere.  Those same hills are circled by vehicle tracks that extend time of travel for vehicles while infantry can cross them straight.

Danger Canyon is iffy in execution but good in concept.  Short infantry tunnels from base to base, wide outer ring for vehicle passage.  

Dude knock it off with that ce btb shit those maps Are utter garbage, and don’t properly support 8v8, maybe if it was 16v16 it’d play great. Anyone who played ce on the pc knows all people played was blood gulch 9/10 times. 

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9 hours ago, Riddler said:

did u even have an account on bigteambattle.net? or are currently in either btb discord? btb were the first people to leave halo4

I did actually and I remember that occurring and going back to reach. 

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Sprint solves nothing that a higher BMS and a well designed map couldn't solve. Let it die. It's awful for Halo and it always will be.

Timberland is the only good CE BTB map. Some of the other ones would be okay if they were about 30% smaller, but most are unsaveable.

Avalanche's middle area and base design + Sidewinder's outer ring = the correct version of that map.

Coagulation should have used the "Classic" weapon set in MM since launch. It replaces the Brute Shot on dark and light cliffs with another Rocket, which the map desperately needs. Also whoever's idea it was to put "sniper ammo" on the map should be taken out back and beaten.

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All in all you can’t say these maps play horribly with sprint if added nor would it change the pace for the worse. Hemmorage played quite well in reach.

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1 minute ago, Arlong said:

All in all you can’t say these maps play horribly with sprint if added nor would it change the pace for the worse. Hemmorage played quite well in reach.

If the best argument you can make in favor of sprint in BTB is "Well its fine" then its not worth adding.  This is the problem with games of the last 8 years or so.  They feel the need to just add more stuff to justify their existence.  More button presses. More abilities. More shiny objects. More polygons. More particle effects and lens flare. on and on.  The common denominator with 90% of this stuff is that its just "more".  It doesn't actually help the gameplay in any meaningful way.  Saying something "Isn't bad" isn't the same as saying "This is definitely good".  If you can't make a solid argument that something genuinely makes the game better, just leave it on the cutting room floor. Otherwise its just noise.

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Movement Ability pick ups come in packs of 2.  They do not disable the user’s ability to attack.  

 

Sprint and Thrust.  Medium duration forward speed boost while grounded and short duration multi directional speed boost.  

Hoverboard and Glider.  Long duration forward speed boost while grounded and long duration forward speed boost while airborne.

Jump Boots and Grapple.  Short duration upward speed boost and short duration omni directional speed boost.

 

A relatively short duration Sprint allows the user to quickly cross a room while Thruster allows the user to juke during a gunfight or change direction midair.  

The Hoverboard and Glider allow the user to traverse long distances quicker.  The user could simply ride the Hoverboard to his destination on flat ground.  On hilly ground, the user could ride the Hoverboard to the top of a hill, jump off and activate Glider.  If there are no taller hills than the one jumped off of, then the user should be able to glide through the air to his location.  The ability to seamlessly transition between Hoverboard and Glider allows the user to quickly cover ground, while also traveling directly over ravines that would significantly increase his travel time to go around.  

Hoverboard and Glider allow the user to enter structures at above ground level if circumstances are right.  Ramp like objects can be ridden on, and jumped off of, to send the user flying in through a second story window.  Glider can be ridden from one building to another.  The user can jump out of a window, use glider to wrap around the building and come in another window.  

Jump Boots and Grapple allow the user to move like a horse in chess.  He can jump over things and change direction in the air.  Because Grapple is an omni directional movement ability, the user can use it to add more height to his jump by firing it upwards (maybe even at a Banshee he is trying to hijack).  Or the user can use the grapple to cancel out his jump by firing it back down at the ground.  Warthog coming to kill you?  Jump into the air, look down at the vehicle, fire grapple (pulling yourself to the vehicle), and hijack the vehicle.  Want to get into a structure from above ground level?  Jump into the air and grapple in sideways through a window. 

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1 hour ago, Apoll0 said:

If the best argument you can make in favor of sprint in BTB is "Well its fine" then its not worth adding.  This is the problem with games of the last 8 years or so.  They feel the need to just add more stuff to justify their existence.  More button presses. More abilities. More shiny objects. More polygons. More particle effects and lens flare. on and on.  The common denominator with 90% of this stuff is that its just "more".  It doesn't actually help the gameplay in any meaningful way. 

 

1 hour ago, Boyo said:

Movement Ability pick ups come in packs of 2.  They do not disable the user’s ability to attack.  

 

Sprint and Thrust.  Medium duration forward speed boost while grounded and short duration multi directional speed boost.  

Hoverboard and Glider.  Long duration forward speed boost while grounded and long duration forward speed boost while airborne.

Jump Boots and Grapple.  Short duration upward speed boost and short duration omni directional speed boost.

 

lol

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Hemorrhage played like dog shit stop kidding yourself. Ignoring everyone's valid arguements and continuously saying "yeah, it just played well" with no elaboration whatsoever really shows how bad you are at this whole discussion thing.

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Hemorrhage was kinda fun but only on objective modes or action sack for me.

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3 hours ago, Arlong said:

All in all you can’t say these maps play horribly with sprint if added nor would it change the pace for the worse. Hemmorage played quite well in reach.

we can hop on halo3 online and do it right now... it's just people already know it suck. hemmorage sucked ass lol. all the blood gulches do for competent halo play. yeah bg is cool when ur ramming warthogs into each other

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2 hours ago, HeX Reapers said:

Hemorrhage played like dog shit stop kidding yourself. Ignoring everyone's valid arguements and continuously saying "yeah, it just played well" with no elaboration whatsoever really shows how bad you are at this whole discussion thing.

I’m not ignoring them, but I don’t think the arguments are completely ok, when it’s bad map designer, or add teleporters or man cannons, or listing btb maps that played good without sprint but at the same time did terrible in regarding infantry or vehicle play styles. If you’d like we could have that discussion you want later on since I’m on break atm so around 6:00 pst for me. 

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I don’t necessarily want sprint in btb, I’m simply debating that it be better for sprint to only be in btb or something of the sort. It would please the fans who desire sprint in halo, without them calling 343 out for giving into nostalgia. Like one common argument that @Hard Way likes to make is a fast bms, but I ask you how fast is this bms? You’ve never even given an example? I say 120% which if you use in halo 5 120% of the bms is the same amount of speed you’d go if you’re sprinting. 

I’ve explained a dozens times that the bms can’t be too quick as well, but I feel that has never been acknowledged.  

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No one acknowldges you regarding that because its not measureable and everyone also knows we cant just be going too fast. Thats just derailing the convo at that point

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@Arlong, giving a percentage for a game that isn’t even out yet is pointless. I have no idea what the default speed will be, so I’m not going to throw out an arbitrary number. Going off of previous games, I think MLG’s setting helped BTB a lot, so i guess 110 for H3 if you want an example of what I’d like to see.

Basically I just want a BMS that is fast enough to make passing through vehicle lanes not feel like a slog. Vehicles should be used for their lethality, HP, and getting across the length of the map faster. They should never be necessary just to move through the map at all (see Hemorrhage). You should be able to move from segment to segment through the map easily without a vehicle.

I like to think of it like two different maps (vehicle and infantry) laid over top of one another, and there are various key points where they intersect and influence each other.

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Yeah but if we have sprint we can have bigger maps and then marketing can say "largest Halo map ever made!!!1!" On the box.

Checkmate.

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