Jump to content
CyReN

Halo Infinite Discussion

Recommended Posts

@Apoll0 

How would you feel about giving the Assault Rifle a 4x Spotting Scope that can temporarily tag enemies with a waypoint visible to the team?  Would that satisfy your desire for a tagging mechanic without making it a base player trait?

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/7/2019 at 10:30 PM, Arlong said:

Whay was the lore behind promethions? 

They were ancient humans. Not the ancient-est humans mind you, who - despite warping canon to make the Forerunners a separate species from humans to justify dumbass creative decisions like making Didact look like glowstick-Voldemort - were apparently spacefaring. The Prometheans are from a civilization of slightly less-ancient humans, who were reverted to the Stone Age (presumably again?) after a war between the Humans and Forerunners that predates the arrival of the Flood and also adds nothing to the canon. It should be noted that the actual event that produced the Prometheans is a completely separate event from this supposed war, and is an event in the Forerunner-Flood war - which is the one we're actually supposed to give a shit about. Also interesting is that later the Librarian presumably visited the Earth to collect all the surviving humans and then automatically reseeded it after the fact. The knots all this shit ties the continuity in sort of makes Earth look like some kind of goddamn Mecca of alien encounters of the third kind.

On 9/7/2019 at 9:41 AM, Boyo said:

What changes to Prometheans would make them more palatable in campaign?

I like the idea of bigass digital sarcophagi as enemies. I don't like anything else about them. Not the physical design. Not the behavior. Not the name. I don't really understand the Prometheus implications. If I could rename them I'd restructure existing Forerunner artifacts after, like, pieces of the Underworld. Maybe the layers - Tartarans/Elysians - or if that's too cliche, the rivers: Styx, Lethe, Archeron...the other...two...

Visually I think they need to be tan, or maybe a deep bronze with some sort of dark marble highlighting, with something actually mummified inside (it can even glow with Forerunner designs in important bits I guess). No squirty orange juices (in fact, let's forget the Blue/Orange dichotomy entirely) and if any piece of it emits light, it's during actions or abilities.

One of Destiny 1's only ideas that really appealed to me was a mission towards the end (I never played enough to remember which it was and jesus fuck is it complicated to go back and figure it out six years after the fact. It's entirely possible it's actually in HoW and not Vanilla, that's how far behind I am) where the player makes their way through a field of dormant Vex statues - all just fucking chilling. I think nuPrometheans would have to blur the line between statue and robot also, and interact with the player in not uniformly aggressive ways, if at all in some cases. I think they'd have to look ghostly, wading through the environment with quiet, fluid movements. If the Flood are the diseased image of undeath, the remaining Forerunner artifacts are the poetic visage of death.

Mechanically, I think they could play a unique role in non-linear story environments. Either as BioShock's Big Daddies: dormant optional encounters that drop a bigass gun or important asset you can use in an upcoming fight, or potential allies to be collected and utilized in an upcoming fight. In either case they'd have to feel like a miniboss, and be part of some ingame ecosystem or economy the player is working in.

 

Edit: also holy shit sorry to derail the conversation lol.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, L377UC3 said:

I think nuPrometheans would have to blur the line between statue and robot also, and interact with the player in not uniformly aggressive ways, if at all in some cases.

RYLPkc.gif

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Apoll0 said:

If we have free buttons i would rather have it be used for a communication system like a proper ping.  Something so players that won't/can't use mics can still kind of let me know wtf they are seeing.

That's what the D-Pad is for.  :simms:

  • Simms (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
56 minutes ago, Boyo said:

@Apoll0 

How would you feel about giving the Assault Rifle a 4x Spotting Scope that can temporarily tag enemies with a waypoint visible to the team?  Would that satisfy your desire for a tagging mechanic without making it a base player trait?

Why over-complicate it? Its basically a quality of life improvement, not something that really requires any kind of balance considerations (other than whether or not pinging a player should follow that player, which it should not).  It should be a base trait. Vocal communication will always be better but some people choose not to or can't for one reason or another or are playing in a party.  This is simply to give those people an outlet to be able to communicate.  Try to assuage the frustration of players basically being mute all game.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Apoll0 said:

Also.... if we have a free button or 2 thats really ok.  We should not feel obligated to use them simply because they exist.

I'd rather bring back the flashlight before we add random shit like equipment and movement gimmicks.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Fire (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Basu said:

I'd rather bring back the flashlight before we add random shit like equipment and movement gimmicks.

How about a strobing flashing you can use to blind your opponents with a 10 second cooldown timer??

 

-Boyo probably:kappa:

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Thonking (+0) 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Basu said:

I'd rather bring back the flashlight before we add random shit like equipment and movement gimmicks.

Flashlight is only necessary for “horror” game modes like certain campaign sections, Floodfight, and Infection gametypes.  Rather than making Flashlight a base player trait, make it a weapon attachment on the shotgun.  The Magnum has a scope.  The Shotgun has a flashlight.

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

Why over-complicate it? Its basically a quality of life improvement, not something that really requires any kind of balance considerations (other than whether or not pinging a player should follow that player, which it should not).  It should be a base trait. Vocal communication will always be better but some people choose not to or can't for one reason or another or are playing in a party.  This is simply to give those people an outlet to be able to communicate.  Try to assuage the frustration of players basically being mute all game.

The ability to tag an enemy is better than the ability to ping a location.  One, if a ping isn’t guaranteed to be an enemy, and the player who created the ping cannot communicate verbally, then pinging is useless HUD clutter.  Two, when an enemy is briefly tagged with a waypoint that follows him, it gives players his location and direction of travel, which is more valuable than a stationary location in a movement based game.  Three, when only enemies can be tagged, mechanics could tie into the tagging system.  Each team’s base has a main cannon that can be activated and will fire at a tagged enemy vehicle.

Giving different weapons unique functions increases sandbox diversity.  If players want to be able to tag, let them use the tagging weapon.  If the AR was the secondary starting weapon in big team, it would present the player with an actual choice about whether or not he wants to trade it out for an on map pick up.

Share this post


Link to post

Halo really needs a proper ping system one as accurate as apex legends. Too many players refuse to use game chat for arbitrary reasons, or in other words excuses.  With that said, the fact is no one uses gamechat anymore. We’ve seen the gamechat in halo games decrease over the years and ever since the Xbox one released gamechat in general has basically died out, as everyone uses the party chat feature. This isn’t exactly a bad thing since it’s ok to only want to talk with friends/XBL friends, but it ruins competitive mm in games, especially in halo where communication is such a game changer, as it is in any game. A proper ping system would give a way for those people to communicate, as they just don’t want to personally communicate with their voice.  

Sure 343 could always add incentives, add recommendation texts to communicate, and maybe force people into gamechat(ranked only of course) now I know what you’re thinking “they’ll just use discord or Skype” most people don’t use those two apps outside of people they don’t know personally, so they won’t invite their XBL friends to those chats. And if they decide to not communicate once forced into game chat, I don’t believe that person deserves to enter a ranked mode and not try(not communicating when you have the ability to do so is showing me you’re not trying to win) . But I’m not completely for such a feature mostly because in halos case the game chat mic quality is extremely poor.  

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

The ability to tag an enemy is better than the ability to ping a location.  One, if a ping isn’t guaranteed to be an enemy, and the player who created the ping cannot communicate verbally, then pinging is useless HUD clutter.  Two, when an enemy is briefly tagged with a waypoint that follows him, it gives players his location and direction of travel, which is more valuable than a stationary location in a movement based game.  Three, when only enemies can be tagged, mechanics could tie into the tagging system.  Each team’s base has a main cannon that can be activated and will fire at a tagged enemy vehicle.

Giving different weapons unique functions increases sandbox diversity.  If players want to be able to tag, let them use the tagging weapon.  If the AR was the secondary starting weapon in big team, it would present the player with an actual choice about whether or not he wants to trade it out for an on map pick up.

Tbh there is a way to balance the tagging feature, and in halos case you come up with a lore reason. Make it so the ping disappears once the player who pinged dies or that player must be looking at their target at all times.Since you’re wearing suits with holo tech, cameras etc. you could debate that your teammates helmets are linked so you’d be able to see what they see. 

Or make it so the tagging is active for 2 seconds. 

Share this post


Link to post

Just give EXP bonuses for being in game chat.  Unlock exclusive armor after some hours of game chat.  Get a cool emblem after some hours of gamechat.  

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

The ability to tag an enemy is better than the ability to ping a location.  One, if a ping isn’t guaranteed to be an enemy, and the player who created the ping cannot communicate verbally, then pinging is useless HUD clutter.  Two, when an enemy is briefly tagged with a waypoint that follows him, it gives players his location and direction of travel, which is more valuable than a stationary location in a movement based game.  Three, when only enemies can be tagged, mechanics could tie into the tagging system.  Each team’s base has a main cannon that can be activated and will fire at a tagged enemy vehicle.

Giving different weapons unique functions increases sandbox diversity.  If players want to be able to tag, let them use the tagging weapon.  If the AR was the secondary starting weapon in big team, it would present the player with an actual choice about whether or not he wants to trade it out for an on map pick up.

You can do both.  Apex does this well.  Single tap for a location ping. Tap on an enemy for enemy tag or double tap a location for an enemy tag.  Its easy. 

Diversity just for diversity's sake doesn't make sense in this case. By tying the functionality of a ping system to different weapons, you're just handicapping the ability for people to communicate non-verbally.  Not EVERYTHING has to have some arbitrary tradeoff or shoehorned balancing mechanism.  This is simply something that can make life better for all players without effecting sandbox design, map design, balancing or any of that.  Everybody should have access to it all the time, in a simple easily accessible way.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Tbh there is a way to balance the tagging feature, and in halos case you come up with a lore reason. Make it so the ping disappears once the player who pinged dies or that player must be looking at their target at all times.Since you’re wearing suits with holo tech, cameras etc. you could debate that your teammates helmets are linked so you’d be able to see what they see. 

Or make it so the tagging is active for 2 seconds. 

You scope in with the Assault Rifle and press the Fire button while you have an enemy targeted.  This tags the enemy with a waypoint visible to the team for a few seconds.

7 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

You can do both.  Apex does this well.  Single tap for a location ping. Tap on an enemy for enemy tag or double tap a location for an enemy tag.  Its easy. 

Diversity just for diversity's sake doesn't make sense in this case. By tying the functionality of a ping system to different weapons, you're just handicapping the ability for people to communicate non-verbally.  Not EVERYTHING has to have some arbitrary tradeoff or shoehorned balancing mechanism.  This is simply something that can make life better for all players without effecting sandbox design, map design, balancing or any of that.  Everybody should have access to it all the time, in a simple easily accessible way.

It’s not diversity for diversity’s sake.  Tagging is a valuable tool.  Choosing to hold onto the tool that allows you to do that or pick up a more powerful weapon is a good choice for players to make.  

The visual clutter.  In BTB, I could have up to 7 waypoints active for the entire game?  No thank you.  Making tagging a trait of a specific weapon instead of a base player trait allows map/gametype designers to keep this feature off their map if they so choose.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Boyo said:

Button Layout 

  

 RT - Fire

RB - Throw Grenade 

 LT - Scope, Alternate Fire

@My Namez BEAST Do you see what I did for you?

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, Boyo said:

You scope in with the Assault Rifle and press the Fire button while you have an enemy targeted.  This tags the enemy with a waypoint visible to the team for a few seconds.

It’s not diversity for diversity’s sake.  Tagging is a valuable tool.  Choosing to hold onto the tool that allows you to do that or pick up a more powerful weapon is a good choice for players to make.  

The visual clutter.  In BTB, I could have up to 7 waypoints active for the entire game?  No thank you.  Making tagging a trait of a specific weapon instead of a base player trait allows map/gametype designers to keep this feature off their map if they so choose.

It really is diversity for the sake of diversity.  There is no need to simply force players to make a choice just because you can or you feel obligated to inject some arbitrary risk/reward.  This has been a major issue with games and game balance for a number of years now.  The desire to design games that always force some sort of even risk/reward profile for everything you do.  Same thing has happened when overly defining "effective ranges" of weapons.  It leads to these boring rock/paper/scissors sandboxes.

There is nothing wrong with adding something that is "Just good" and letting people use it. Limiting pinging to a certain weapon is just this unnecessary, arbitrary decision that really doesn't need to be made.  If it doesn't need to be done, don't do it. Limiting it to certain weapons just punishes people for no reason.

The "Clutter" argument is simply taken care of by design.  You could limit the range on the tagging. or have unlimited range but only display the tagging to people within a certain range of the target. If there are audible indicators you could turn those off in the options. Managing the hud is not hard.

17 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

I see we are back to trying to force game chat. Yikes. 

I mean we are talking about tagging and one person said one sentence about forcing game chat but sure...  Ideally, i would prefer people just use game chat, but i'm pragmatic enough to know that we don't live in (my idea of) a perfect world.  People should be ok with forced game chat for ranked play but the reality is a lot of people would simply be driven away from ranked and possible the game entirely from that sort of draconian decision.  Some sort of tagging system could bridge the gap without forcing game chat.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

 

I mean we are talking about tagging and one person said one sentence about forcing game chat but sure...  Ideally, i would prefer people just use game chat, but i'm pragmatic enough to know that we don't live in (my idea of) a perfect world.  People should be ok with forced game chat for ranked play but the reality is a lot of people would simply be driven away from ranked and possible the game entirely from that sort of draconian decision.  Some sort of tagging system could bridge the gap without forcing game chat.

Was multiple things. Saying to force it and saying there should be actual in game rewards. I know pinging would be a fine addition. Was in response to the other few things that were said. Playing preferences shouldn't be forced or rewarded. Just rewarding more extroverted people for being themselves. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

@Apoll0

It’s not arbitrary.  Aside from a very few core abilities, move, aim, scope, fire, throw grenade, melee, switch weapons, switch grenades, jump, crouch, the abilities a player has are determined by the items in his possession.  Is pinging on the same level, or remotely in the same ballpark, in terms of importance to gameplay as any of those base traits I listed above?  No, if you take away any of them, the game won’t function.  Pinging is not important enough to every gamemode to be a base trait.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Was multiple things. Saying to force it and saying there should be actual in game rewards. I know pinging would be a fine addition. Was in response to the other few things that were said. Playing preferences shouldn't be forced or rewarded. Just rewarding more extroverted people for being themselves. 

You're right i went back and missed the first mention.

 

And i kind of want to make it clear to everybody that when i say there are some people that CAN'T speak, i mean it literally.  Like its not really a choice.  Some people literally cant or are hard to understand for one reason or another. Some people, especially women, won't because they don't want to get harassed.  Some people simply don't have working mics.  Others have roommates or kids nearby that they don't want to disturb. Some younger people have parental controls setup that won't allow them to. In some regions or at certain times of day you are playing with people that do have mics, but they speak a different language so you can't understand each other. There are also a lot of deaf people that play games that it would help.  it would be a good mechanic with a lot of positives and really no negatives as long as its done well that we shouldn't be gating it behind some arbitrary other mechanic, weapon, etc.

Share this post


Link to post

Yes, that’s right.  I’m the guy arguing against empowering women, minorities, and handicapped people.

@Apoll0

  • Like (+1) 1
  • WutFace (+0) 2

Share this post


Link to post
14 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Was multiple things. Saying to force it and saying there should be actual in game rewards. I know pinging would be a fine addition. Was in response to the other few things that were said. Playing preferences shouldn't be forced or rewarded. Just rewarding more extroverted people for being themselves. 

I’m against the idea myself personally, even though I brought it up.  I only said it, simply because it’s something I think could make players participate in gamechat more often. 

Share this post


Link to post

I actually like the idea behind giving XP, emblems, etc. this would give people an incentive to use game chat. If you ever play pubg squads or duos(random) 9/10 all your teammates have mics.”why” because pubg is all about communication. And it makes the game more enjoyable. I personally think it’s a console thing too since on many pc games I get teammates with mics. 

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Yes, that’s right.  I’m the guy arguing against empowering women, minorities, and handicapped people.

@Apoll0

yes because i was totally trying to imply you're an ass hole for not wanting to "Give ping to the masses!"

OR

It was simply a long list, including many non-marginalized groups, to demonstrate that there is a rather sizable population of all kinds of people that would appreciate having that ability, and there are no downsides to doing so. Gating simple QoL improvements behind weapons or other mechanics is just silly.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.