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Halo Infinite Discussion

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15 minutes ago, HeX Reapers said:

I'd have Reach's health system with H2's wait times and recharge speeds.

Can we have auto pick up for health packs? If so I'm very much in agreement

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I once again feel obligated to point out how the Halo 1 Pistol in Anniversary Throwback (or whatever they called it) crippled not just sprint, but all spartan abilities.

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5 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

crippled

 

5 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

spartan

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTr8neHTf6C-vSS7hb_eva

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I was just making a passive comment on my thoughts on the two, didn't think it would lead to anything. Pretty obvious no one here likes either choice.

 

But yes, I find something that actively takes takes decision making every living breathing moment far worse than something that is detrimental, and exists, but doesn't affect what I choose to do.  And that decision making process has nothing to say on the million other side effects sprint has on a game.  Spread sucks but its effect is measurable and can be accounted for in design.

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5 hours ago, Nokt said:

Onto a better topic, whats the optimal (even if optimal is subjective) shield recharge rate and the delay for it to begin charging?

H1's is too slow. H5's is too fast. Next topic. ;)

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4 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

What I think is a better solution that competent developers do (and I'm sure you'll disagree but we'll leave that alone) is just making the weapon projectile and adjusting the velocity accordingly. And with projectile introduces possibility of bullet drop and all that other shenanigans. Ultimately they lead to the same result of - the weapon across the board now takes longer to kill from further away.  Weapon efficiency has been decreased.

Even simpler than that...they could've just made the BR not have zoom. 

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5 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

I think it's much easier to design and play around random spread because it's predictably random. It's ALWAYS random. So you just end up making the decisions you would've made regardless, there's no other choices, same reason id take spread over bloom even though 'technically' you can negate bloom. It's just annoying and makes you constantly do things you would never do. 

Sprint is much, much harder to design around in this same fashion. Basically impossible if we're really going to get into it but I don't really want to have that discussion here. 

So, you account for it by acknowledging it's just always random. You're not actually mitigating or able to actively mitigate its randomness. You just know it's random and make plays based on that randomness. Even if that can vary by gunfight to gunfight.

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Bungie actually provided the stats for the BR spread previously and S2 to training on the pit should be 100% accurate with perfect shots given the numbers they provided. I'm sure someone is willing to go find the article but iirc you needed a range beyond S2 to G2 on Guardian for perfect shots to fail you on someone facing towards you. Its a bit more complicated than all of that considering people might face away or have varying angles and the fact that we play competitive settings with higher than base damage. The general idea though is that the H3 BR is actually far less random than people typically assume in competitive settings and we're FAR more often subjected to our own shitty aim or networking conditions than we are the actual spread mechanic. Its far from perfect however and if you try and 4 someone standing on the tree stump from blue window on guardian good fucking luck in that game and that is the type of situation that makes me want the spread to be removed. That's more nitpicky than anything though since if you're playing with/against "good" players someone backs down in that fight anyways and its more just the principal of someone making a terrible play at that angle and actually being potentially punished for it 

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4 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Even simpler than that...they could've just made the BR not have zoom. 

Even better: make it not do damage after a certain range

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38 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Even better: make it not do damage after a certain range

The problem with this approach is in making it clear to players what that exact distance would be. If it’s not obvious in game, it just creates more frustration. 

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42 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Even better: make it not do damage after a certain range

Halo 2 BR intensifies

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4 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

So, you account for it by acknowledging it's just always random. You're not actually mitigating or able to actively mitigate its randomness. You just know it's random and make plays based on that randomness. Even if that can vary by gunfight to gunfight.

You definitely do make decisions around knowing there's BR spread I can recognize that. Like seeing someone 30 yards away and opting not to start shooting until you get closer because you know your damage output will be minimal - but things like that are the extent of it and is pretty inoffensive (comparatively). Whereas a semi-ranged fight w/ bloom it's like every moment between every trigger pull is things gnawing sensation of forcing myself to wait longer than I usually would to pull the trigger and more often than not there's no good way of knowing whether or not it was the right decision. It's like someone in the passenger seat constantly pulling the wheel the opposite direction on every turn as opposed to just driving with a slight misalignment.

 

I've brought up bloom repeatedly because it's a more easily understood example of the having to change your playstyle around these mechanics but I haven't forgotten we were referencing sprint  I'm just using it a method to explain what I mean.

 

I suppose another example of this topic would be having to choose between poor strafe acceleration and having thrust in the game w/ a useless strafe. Bad strafing sucks but it doesn't change my decision making. I'm going to play how I'm going to play and all my tools are at my active disposal. Whereas while having a thrust might seem like it would compensate for your loss of survivability and personal movement skill by giving you what you've lost, I'm now left open to being cheated out of other encounters where my thrust was on recharge and they rounded the corner and used it against me then winning.  It just opens up more doors as to "would it have been better if I didn't use it in my previous fight? Would I even have won if I didn't use it then? Would I have won if I had it now?" and no good way of knowing or answering any of those. It's classic AAA industry "risk vs reward" designing in games, where now you put your gun down but you move faster! Now you can sprint but your health doesn't recharge! Your weapon will become more accurate but you have to wait to pull the trigger! " I've grown to hate the thought behind those design decisions and I think they're about as philosophically deep as fighting another player with a column between you two. You don't know which side they're going to pop out on nor do they you. There's some prediction there but at some point, it's just a guessing game without any true way to get better at it.

 

I hope that all makes sense ^ and remember that no one here likes any of the aforementioned mechanics. This is just a thought discussion

 

Edit: final thoughts. It's those distinctions that differ the Halo games to me. The introduction of all those mechanics is basically constantly asking questions that don't just not have answers, but you're asking questions where there wasn't even a question to be asked before. There weren't really questions being asked of you in any given moment in Halo 3, only decisions to be made. Now you've got all these active states and abilities and cooldowns that are constantly begging, what-if?  and there's no way to ever answer it. I guess I look at Halo 3 / Halo 2A as very bad versions of a very good game. And I view Halo 5 as a very good version of a very bad game.  Accurate weapons in H5 and movement skill, it's all a blessing and great attributes to have but I think there's a lot of underlying complexity there that ends up being a mental wear whether or not you actively consciously realize it. And the very existence of those abilities and questions being asked, to ME, basically is RNG. 

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1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Gotta love shooting someone in the head and watching them tank the bullet and get behind cover just to pop back out and kill you but you actually die before they pop out #justMCCthings

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4 minutes ago, Basu said:

Gotta love shooting someone in the head and watching them tank the bullet and get behind cover just to pop back out and kill you but you actually die before they pop out #justMCCthings

The sniper thing was a problem in OG, too. So many unplayable Coagulation matches...

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Weapons that kill in 2 or 3 shots are the most interesting.  The utility kills in 4 shots, the power weapons kill in 1 shot, and the autos require time on target.  The deepest, most fun weapons to use should be the mid tier, pick up weapons.

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You know I never felt like the h3 autos were bad, especially with the melee+auto combo, it didn’t make them appear to be “trash”. They definitely weren’t h2 bad. I still believe that h4 has the best weapon balance where the Precision weapons were more powerful and dominant, but autos were still strong. But SOME people want it to a point where they still have 3/4 of their shield left after facing some BK auto user.

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27 minutes ago, Arlong said:

You know I never felt like the h3 autos were bad, especially with the melee+auto combo, it didn’t make them appear to be “trash”. They definitely weren’t h2 bad. I still believe that h4 has the best weapon balance where the Precision weapons were more powerful and dominant, but autos were still strong. But SOME people want it to a point where they still have 3/4 of their shield left after facing some BK auto user.

H3 autos weren't that bad... However,  starting with one is where the problems started to happen. 

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2 hours ago, Stoppabl3 said:

H3 autos weren't that bad... However,  starting with one is where the problems started to happen. 

Ok that I agree 100% with. Auto starts are bad unless they’re like H5’s, where you can obviously switch to your pistol and the AR isn’t a dogshit weapon. If H5’s had better aiming mechanics(or just no heavy aim bug) it probably could be better, and the precision weapons would of felt better. But as we know that’s not the case, and it made autos more OP than they should of been. H6 needs to adopt a style similar to h4 where autos are strong but precision are stronger. There should be some levels of recoil too, but not much, if you played splitgate that kind of recoil(no headshot bonuses). I know 343 is decently good at making a sandbox that’s good though, I didn’t hate halo 5s sandbox, and it’s current one is pretty bad though since they Nerfed everything too hard, if it didn’t have the movement abilities it might not appear so bad. 

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9 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

can sprint but your health doesn't recharge!

It’s this right here is proof sprint doesn’t work in halo. The fact you must NERF a mechanic that’s basic in your average game is evidence it doesn’t work in halo(although to me it works for BTB, just look at reach BTB maps) . 

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3 minutes ago, Arlong said:

It’s this right here is proof sprint doesn’t work in halo. The fact you must NERF a mechanic that’s basic in your average game is evidence it doesn’t work in halo(although to me it works for BTB, just look at reach BTB maps) . 

Who said we "must" nerf it? The only reason they nerfed it is because you wanna-be competitive sticks-in-the-mud demanded something be done with it. This is your fault.

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Random, but does anyone remember the music to Spartan Assault? I could see the music for infinite being similar to it.

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