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Halo Infinite Discussion

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4 hours ago, Arlong said:

AI in warzone need to be a separate faction that’s constantly attacking and capturing bases, needs to be a neutral side, should be legendary style difficult etc. 

As for the annoyance of being killed by AI or shot by them, don’t ignore the AI then and kill them 🙄-_-. Warzone is meant to be pvppve which it does decently well but in my eyes a bad way simply because the AI aren’t constantly spawning and killing your opponents or you and your allies. 

Why do we want a random third party that can indiscriminately aimbot melt you in the middle of gunfights. Why do we want to make that not only capable of full pathfinding on a map, but also Legendary difficulty. 

Seriously, do me a favor and stand outside the fortress door on Stormbreak, holding the long sightline down the boxes and rails as the Baron spawns, and sit out there. It's dynamic, so it moves around a large area of the sky, contesting the middle, and will fucking kill you and anyone it sees, be you on ground or in the air. It's one of the most unfun things about the map. Even a normal Banshee is obnoxious. We know this wouldn't exactly be the most enjoyable gameplay experience BY experience. Halo's AI has never been good for this sort of thing. It runs the dumb gamut of being too easy to stomp, or a pure laser. One is pointless to add, the other is just aggravating to fight or be killed by.

It also brings in the problem of forcing a solution on the user's end. The AI don't become a cool, dynamic, choice engagement, ala Turok's dinosaurs. They're guaranteed to be on your movement path in some way, so you're either gonna have to deal with them yourself, or hide from them. Which again, is a large issue with PvPvE. You have to take your attention away from flesh and blood, real people fighting you, to engage a computer. Or else you die by that computer if it so happens to reach you. Nothing about that gameplay loop is exciting. It's a chore at best, or cheesy at worst. And it's not consistent. Because an AI could kill you, and give you a free death, or give someone else that death. God forbid you fight Legendary AI.

The only godsend of Warzone is a lot of AI combat is outside of the normal areas of combat and engagement, meaning you could go games without fighting them, bar some forced maps. Which on its own pushes the idea of true choice more. And properly segments combat without being intrusive or shit.

On 8/15/2019 at 4:12 PM, Apoll0 said:

The vehicle's suck argument is just hogwash in general.  Like, who cares?  More than half of the playlists can be played with 0 vehicles.

This is also one of those "We can have our cake and eat it too" scenarios.  They don't need to be totally fair or equal or have hard counters.  Certainly not in a rock/paper/scissor kind of way.  As long as there is a way to target the driver specifically, even if its hard to do so, they aren't totally OP and they feel good to maneuver they're fine. There's a lot of design wiggle room in there.

Vehicles are like power ups and weapons.  You can design a bunch, design them well of course, but still you can have as many as you want.  If they suck don't use them. Don't like vehicles at all? Play all the other shit that doesn't have them.

And to step back a few days. Saying "just don't play this" is faulty-ass logic. What if I like and want a big team mode, and just happen to hate the vehicles in it, lol. What if that's the ONLY option for a big team mode, as has been the case for every single game in the franchise. On one hand, as much as I hate them, I would say, "hey, BTB Lite when", because vehicles aren't actually mandatory for a big team mode, as even CoD shows, but they don't "need" to be fully removed for the whackos who like them. On the other hand, handwaving off a dislike of vehicles with the option to not play doesn't just suddenly eliminate the flaws with vehicles [superb ease of use and power], nor does it actually solve my issue if I want a big team mode without this bullshit in it. 

Second, there are ways to target the driver on every vehicle but a Banshee, barring Reach's. But, surprise, they're insanely hard to hit, be it due to speed, how they move, etc. And results in superbly increased survivability. Which given their ease of use on top of it (Requiring power weapons to do any semblance of quick damage in most cases), parks them on an OP level in comparison to spawners, lol.

Sure, they could design a bunch, and they could design them well. They haven't really done it thus far barring H4/H2A.

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4 hours ago, Hully said:

Tim Longo, Infinite's creative director, has apparently left 343...

 

https://kotaku.com/halo-infinite-creative-director-leaves-company-1837312778

This was literally all I could find about Mary Olsen. She's been with 343i since 2012 as a sound/audio designer, prior to that she mostly worked the same job for Sony/Zipper and Microsoft back in the 90's.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryshokesolson

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If we at Beyond could somehow seize the means of production of Halo...

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Most of us know what kind of Halo we want.

It's just that each of us have a different Halo that would conflict with each other.

So yes. Would flop.

 

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49 minutes ago, TeeJaY said:

I can't even imagine what @Boyo's Halo would look like.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

NERD alert... stick to a kewl giant robot like Voltron next time mmmmkaaaay?

Weeb alert... I'm more of a Gurren Lagann kinda guy.

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A creative director leaving a big franchise before release usually isn't a good sign, but given his track record with Halo, I have (some) Hope. 

I've perused multiple comment sections about this news, and one of the most common things i've seen is expecting it to be the next Anthem or Destiny. The other is that most people didn't like H5 much anyways, so it isn't much of a loss. I'm not sure myself, but my inner Halo fan wants this to be a good thing. 

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3 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Would flop.

But it would be a damn good game. 

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2 hours ago, L377UC3 said:

 

 

(The crane was being controlled by the D-Pad the entire time)

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16 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Lotta this seems super larpy, and probably wouldn't be gameplay feasible. Or, at least, not in a way that would be "engaging" in the long term. Like, ship boarding, invasions, etc. That's a playspace, and there isn't really much you can do there past immersion. 

The question remains "why".

Also, this. AI do this in Warzone, and it's one of the most aggravating things to ever occur in a gametype that's primarily PvP. It isn't fun being melted by or engaged by AI in the middle of a fight with people. It's just corny bullshit. Guarantee you it'd get old really fast.

Thank you for dissecting my top-level idea spitballing. I, of course, meant it should all be implemented with no testing whatsoever and exactly as I wrote it. No further thoughts about balance, purpose or design required.

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Just because Halo 5s AI is fucking dogshit which made 343 turn them all into bullet sponges with literal aimbots doesn't mean PvE has to always be bad. Warzone is awful, no one is going to deny that, but with some mental effort behind it, a high playercount PvPvE mode can absolutely be fun. Dismissing the entire concept based on 343 incompetence makes zero sense. 

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I can't see the fundamental difference in getting flanked by AI in a firefight vs getting flanked by someone's teammate in a firefight.  Specific execution aside  (random banshee flying in and instakill bombing you is bullshit).

AI might actually be preferable here depending on how much you can influence who they decide to attack or even just their ability to attack in itself.  I don't know, random example, you shoot a barrel of honey next to an enemy and nearby angry giant bees swarm him.  In essence it's just another weapon in your arsenal, only one that has actual counterplay for the victim, and the "team" is decided by which player took initiative and which had bad positioning.  Or either team can shoot them beforehand to prevent it in the first place.  Maybe there's a honey grenade the other player can throw to flip the situation around.  Point being you can have nuanced AI.

But then I also have to ask what purpose randomly throwing AI in actually serves either.

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It's this total destruction machine. When you see Chief coming down of orbit, hitting the ground, and you know, doing all that stuff, we want to bring that to the gameplay itself."

— Tim Longo on Spartan abilities.

 

Dude just described ground pound. Glad he’s gone. 

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I'm against super-mega-huge-team Halo for a few reasons, not the least of which is the fact that such a mode encourages all sorts of excess and loopy ideas. I think the best way forward for Halo, if only for one title, is to strip it down and take a simple, minimalist approach. No sprint, no loadouts, no classes. Gut the weapons sandbox and rebuild it, only adding weapons that are absolutely necessary to make the game go and feel like Halo, or brand-new weapons that are something more than just riffs of previous deleted weapons. 14-16 weapons at the max. Same thing for vehicles. Nuke it back to the warthog, tank, ghost, and banshee (all from Halo 1), and only add *new* vehicles from there.

That said Warzone is pretty decent for what it is (a big team roflcopter arcade mode that lets you spawn your own binary rifles and scorpion tanks, that can still be interesting if you get that one evenly matched lobby on one of the three acceptable maps). Certainly a lot better than I thought it would be when it was first announced or hinted at in that pastebin from way back.

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8 hours ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Most of us know what kind of Halo we want.

It's just that each of us have a different Halo that would conflict with each other.

So yes. Would flop.

 

I’m certain we could easily put out a superior product compared to anything 343 has made. 

Not that it’s a high bar to set lol

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17 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

1) They were talking about when AI gets triggered to spawn and rushes you while you are already engaged with a real player.  Not that it was being ignored before the battle begun.  That shit is annoying af in any game.

2) Regardless of scale its still totally unnecessary. Getting players from point a to point b quickly can be handled better than simply giving them a zoomy boi button.

You act as if man cannons and teleports are all over the place. Even avalanche a map that has that could benefit me with sprint. You honestly can’t make a compelling argument on why sprint isn’t ok for BTB as most of the reasons sprint doesn’t belong in halo is because of traditional 4v4 arena gameplay. 

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8 hours ago, TeeJaY said:

I can't even imagine what @Boyo's Halo would look like.

giphy.gif

 

 

I would focus on improving the sandbox, player movement, maps, and gametypes.

 

Functions are assigned to unused buttons, like the Scope button on weapons with no scope and the Reload button on battery operated weapons.

A class of items that enhance movement are activated by pressing the Jump button while airborne.

A class of items of varying purposes are activated by pressing the Equipment button.

New grenade types.

New turrets, some with limited mobility.

New vehicles with unique roles.

A new power up that uniquely modifies each weapon’s behavior.

New options for Custom Power Up.

A modified Ordnance system.

New map hazards.

New ways to interact with, modify, and even destroy parts of the map.

Polish core gametypes and expand upon niche gametypes.

Make the many combinations of movement that can be achieved, by combining strafing, crouching, and jumping, fluid and effective, crisp and clean, able to cause enemies to miss.

Incorporate skill based maneuvers into map design.

Improved tools for map design and scripting.

Improved tools for gametype customization.

Improved auxiliary features like theatre, file share, party system, ranks, service record.

 

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7 hours ago, NAK said:

one of the most common things i've seen is expecting it to be the next Anthem or Destiny. The other is that most people didn't like H5 much anyways, so it isn't much of a loss.

Where were these people 2 years ago

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PvPvE is infinitely more entertaining than playing octagon halo

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A “Give Temporary Party Lead” option would be nice.  When you’re playing customs and some kid wants to show you his map, it would be nice to be able to give him temporary party lead, that the real party leader can revoke at any time.

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They really need to bring back the party up feature on Matchmaking, both in MCC and Infinite. I made so many friends in matchmaking through party up. 

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