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Halo Infinite Discussion

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melee feels perfect in halo ce to me. you can actually miss your swing and have to aim it on them instead of auto lunging to them and getting a hit. also double melee is very simple yet feels very satisfying

it made halo 3 ar starts that much worse because ar and melee is quite effective yet its so skilless. you dont have to aim for a melee you just press melee and suck towards them and hit them. boring asss 

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The Ammo Pack Power Up modifies the user’s weapon, typically by modifying the traits of its projectiles.

 

The Magnum fires Explosive Rounds that deal increased damage.  (3 shot kill Magnum)

The DMR fires Armor Piercing Rounds that can damage vehicle occupants through the vehicle.  (Kill operator without destroying vehicle)

The Assault Rifle fires Incendiary Rounds that ignite shieldless targets and deal damage over time.  (Destroy campaign Flood, kill Infection zombies)

The Shotgun fires Electronets that can cover doorways, damaging players who pass through.  Damaging an Electronet destroys it.  (Slow down Infection zombies)

The Sniper Rifle fires Stealth Rounds that produce no contrails a have a reduced report.  (Power Up for Team Snipers)

The Rocket Launcher fires Bunker Buster Cluster rounds that penetrate cover and release a secondary cluster of smaller explosives each time it passes through cover.  (Kill players behind cover)

The Plasma Pistol fires Plasma Mortars that deal explosive damage but have significant drop over distance.  (Power of a Wraith in the palm of your hand)

The Plasma Launcher becomes fully automatic with no charge up.  (Full auto stickies AAAAAAHHHHH!)

The Mauler fires Bruteshot rounds that deal explosive damage.  (Turns short range, hitscan, shotgun spread into longer range, projectile, single explosive)

The Spiker fires Stabilizer Spikes that exhibit less recoil and have less drop over distance.  (Straight upgrade to weapon’s effectiveness)

The Boltshot fires a Quantum Tunneling Bolt that instantly teleports the user to the point of impact.  (Turns an offensive weapon into a travel tool)

The Sentinel Beam fires an Energy Beam that homes in on a targeted teammate, gradually increasing his shield level to a single layer Overshield, and reducing his shield recharge delay.  (Turns an offensive weapon into a teammate support tool)

 

How would you modify other weapons like the Battle Rifle, Needle Rifle, Plasma Rifle, Energy Sword, Beam Rifle, Gravity Hammer, or the Light Rifle?

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And what do you think about this mechanic for the Plasma Pistol?

The Scope button places an indicator on the object that the user’s reticle is aimed at.  Any fired projectiles will attempt to curve towards this indicator, albeit with a limited turn radius.  This allows the user to potentially hit targets that aren’t directly visible by curving the projectiles around cover.

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plasma rifles power up disables enemies weapons scope for 15 seconds like an emp so you can only fire descope 

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17 minutes ago, boogerman said:

plasma rifles power up disables enemies weapons scope for 15 seconds like an emp so you can only fire descope 

If you are close enough to hit someone with the plasma rifle, do they really need their scope?  Love the concept though.

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11 hours ago, Arlong said:

Because deep down no one cares for some unique melee system in a shooter, or the fact no game Dev would want to waste time on that, in an FPS game I’m so sure. Like sure these ideas are cool but I’m going to look back at how it used to be and one melee takes shields or kills. It’s a melee system that’s frustrating, fun , and yet so simple. It’s not something I’m sure most care about. This is a shooter, you’re wanting to introduce this unique melee system when it’s something no one is asking for or even cares for. Sure the meta may be stale but I don’t want to need to master some dumbass melee mechanic in an FPS game. The sword has a lunge for the sake of not being useless because believe me it be downright useless if it was made in your image. 

Most of these idea's are just examples of things you could possibly add to the Halo formula and one of the main things I was trying to replicate with this particular idea was button combos, obviously it's hard to know exactly how these ideas would play out without testing them so calling it a 'dumbass' mechanic doesn't really mean a whole lot.  

Another point of my posts are to promote discussion with it being a forum and all... and to show that despite people's preconceptions there's lots of uncharted territory when it comes to Halo mechanics and a lot of possibilities to explore.

With all that said I don't particularly appreciate your drive-by dismissal post which acts to shut down discussion more than anything else.

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Melee systems with some nuance are still simple.  Range that matches the size of the gun, hitbox size/shape that matches the gun, no melee-magnetism. Done.  Everything you need to know about the melee system is right there on the screen. 

 

Halo is best when it's designed very simply but every aspect has subtleties to it. Little nuanced details.  No single feature or mechanic that totally changes or dominates the game.  A little thing here and there that can give you a small advantage if you bother to learn it, but nothing is singularly OP. Nothing requires you to master it to at least be competent and have fun. But if you do and put all the little thing together you can really separate yourself skill-wise.

 

Modern halos try to bash you over the head with stuff you must master to even play semi-adequately and it's a crying shame.

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That feeling when you're down in health and the enemy is closing in, but you know that the AR hits from further out and has less wind-up frames, and you know that if you're moving forward for both melee's a BLB will kill, so you switch weapons and commit forward while at red health and lay out the guy closing in on you...

...that's that good shit.

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15 hours ago, Mow said:

Most of these idea's are just examples of things you could possibly add to the Halo formula and one of the main things I was trying to replicate with this particular idea was button combos, obviously it's hard to know exactly how these ideas would play out without testing them so calling it a 'dumbass' mechanic doesn't really mean a whole lot.  

Another point of my posts are to promote discussion with it being a forum and all... and to show that despite people's preconceptions there's lots of uncharted territory when it comes to Halo mechanics and a lot of possibilities to explore.

With all that said I don't particularly appreciate your drive-by dismissal post which acts to shut down discussion more than anything else.

I apologize for being that way as it’s rude,  I just think it’s better to talk about mechanics that seem “realistic”. By that I mean there’s a decent possibility of this ending up in halo. Weapons(precision) being perfectly accurate but being projectile is a possibility I believe could happen and is worth discussing about how to make sure it’s not super OP compared to everything else Is something realistic to me. 

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Projectiles being brought back to Halo isn't any more likely than not-cancerous melee properties being brought back.  As much as I wish both were brought back.

We already had a projectile accurate weapon that wasn't super OP compared to everything else.  Just like we already had a game with intelligently designed melee.  Big fucking :thinking: hours.

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I believe Infinite will have projectile weapons basically because that's where the first person industry seems to be right now. More projectile weapons than not.  Especially since they want this thing to be on PC, and I would bet that Microsoft wants to use Halo to help push cross-play.  Projectile would basically be required in that case and possibly some implementation of bullet drop.

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2 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

I believe Infinite will have projectile weapons basically because that's where the first person industry seems to be right now. More projectile weapons than not.  Especially since they want this thing to be on PC, and I would bet that Microsoft wants to use Halo to help push cross-play.  Projectile would basically be required in that case and possibly some implementation of bullet drop.

Especially since they're gonna shoehorn in a Battle Royal *ahem excuse me* SPARTAN SURVIVAL mode in there.

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3 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

I believe Infinite will have projectile weapons basically because that's where the first person industry seems to be right now. More projectile weapons than not.  Especially since they want this thing to be on PC, and I would bet that Microsoft wants to use Halo to help push cross-play.  Projectile would basically be required in that case and possibly some implementation of bullet drop.

If bullet drop is ever added to halo it needs to be similar to apex legends style. 

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Just now, Arlong said:

If bullet drop is ever added to halo it needs to be similar to apex legends style. 

Drop amount based on the ammo type? If that's what you're referring to

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I think bullet drop could benefit halo as long as its used correctly and they don't put the cart before the horse.  Right now it relies very very heavily on basically 4 things to limit the range of it's majority-hitscan sandbox.

  1. Unscope RRR
  2. Scoped RRR
  3. Aim Assist
  4. Bullet Magnetism

Before bullet drop can be added, they really need to take care of the aim assist and magnetism issues that have plagued the series. Recently, aim assist and magnetism have been the primary drivers deciding how difficult a weapon is to use.  Imo, that shit needs to stop. Any presence of aim assist and bullet mag should be solely for the quality of life of console players.  Just enough aim assist to make using a controller feel comfortable without being squirrely. Just enough magnetism so that edge-cases don't feel unfair and to make up for the differences in connection quality (LAN can forgo it altogether really).  Halo 4 and 5 have really ramped those up in a way so they're not just serving as a leveler to compensate for connection and the inherent inferiority of controller input anymore.

Then they can make all the weapons projectile.  I would have it be a fairly fast projectile with a moderate maximum point blank range.  You shouldn't have to lead by a whole reticle width on a target that is only 10 meters away. Nor should you be able to just aim center mass on a moving target that is 200 meters away either. And yeah i know thats a huge range, but setting what the MPBR is will depend on a ton of variables.

 

Once all that shit is figured out, then they can add bullet drop.  The drop should have 0 randomness to it. It should be marked on the reticle whenever scoped as part of the crosshair (i think thats what @Arlong is referring to for Apex style?).  They could do it Apex style where each hash represents a hundred meters.  Or they could follow the real-life method of MOA or Mils.  Or they could do something like has a multiplier next to/instead of the rangefinder that tells you how many hashes higher you need to aim for that distance.  If they did the multiplier method, they would be able to start the bullet drop at different ranges for different weapons while still keeping the methodology for each different weapon the same.  The apex style would be simpler so you can just pick up any scoped weapon, read the range and go but you would basically have to start the bullets dropping at the same distance that way.  If they went the real-life replication route you would have to memorize what the "translation" is for each weapon.  I'm am not sure if the latter strategy would actually add any worthwhile depth, or if it would just make it kind of a pain in the ass.  I'm sure some ballistics nerds out there would like it though :D.  Or they could forgo all of that and just force people to do it by feel or watch their bullets and compensate accordingly. That is my least favorite option since you already have to do this when it comes to the lead.  I would rather not have compensating for lead and drop basically be a guess on top of a guess.

 

This post ended up being way fucking longer than i thought it would be lol sorry guys.

 

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Basically you’re all on point. Leading needs to be somewhat easy I should say, to the point where it’s easily predictable. Splitgate arena has projectile shooting and it does basically that. The weapons need to shoot fast enough where leading basically isn’t needed at red reticule range, but outside that we can have bullet drop. Since 343 is keen on making autos strong I say give them spread with slight recoil to make the weapon take some skill. I liked the way split gate did it, and recoil on controller works fine so don’t dare anyone here make some comment it doesn’t belong. I don’t want bullet drop to necessary change the way guns have worked in halo, I’m really looking for something like splitgate style projectile, but even that game had bloom which although low, it still would effect a battles outvome at times.

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Projectile drop is acceptable on certain weapons, like the Spiker or the Railgun, but shouldn’t be present on every weapon, namely the utility and the sniper.  

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9 hours ago, Arlong said:

Basically you’re all on point. Leading needs to be somewhat easy I should say, to the point where it’s easily predictable. Splitgate arena has projectile shooting and it does basically that. The weapons need to shoot fast enough where leading basically isn’t needed at red reticule range, but outside that we can have bullet drop. Since 343 is keen on making autos strong I say give them spread with slight recoil to make the weapon take some skill. I liked the way split gate did it, and recoil on controller works fine so don’t dare anyone here make some comment it doesn’t belong. I don’t want bullet drop to necessary change the way guns have worked in halo, I’m really looking for something like splitgate style projectile, but even that game had bloom which although low, it still would effect a battles outvome at times.

I think leading within scoped RRR is fine.  Even the far end of unscoped RRR. Hit detection needs to be good and the spread, if present, can't be random or some kind of spread that basically gifts headshots.  This is what the H5 BR is guilty of right now.  There is no reason to ever aim for the head with it because the linear spread will gift you a headshot anyway as long as you are aiming anywhere between the nuts and shoulders, unless the fight is really close range.  Which doesn't happen a hell of a lot in H5 since the maps are so big. 

We need to make a distinction between recoil and spread as well. Both can be fine depending on how they are used, and they don't have to match perfectly.  For example, if they wanted to use spread to limit the BRs range, i would rather see a tight grouping shaped like this ^, than see what they did with it.  At least with a spread shaped like a tiny triangle you could keep the grouping tight but at far ranges if they are not aiming perfectly the first or last bullet will be to the side of the target, depending on which side they are leading a tiny bit too much or behind by too much.  I think that's unecessary and they would be better off just having no spread with minimal magnetism so if a player is behind or leading by too much they will just... miss period. and to get a headshot they actually have to aim at the head, but a uniform spread is an option.

Recoil can serve as a visual limiter without actually effecting the recoil spread. ie the halo 3 sniper.  After a shot you had to lower the reticle a bit and this required more adjustment the further the target. Yet the projectile was perfectly accurate.  There is no reason you couldn't do the same thing with any other weapon. I would be very judicious with it though, being forced to push your reticle back down after every shot for every weapon because it didn't reset to 0 on its own can get pretty annoying real fast. I would certainly not want to be constantly adjusting my utility weapon back down because it doesn't reset to 0 between shots.

48 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Projectile drop is acceptable on certain weapons, like the Spiker or the Railgun, but shouldn’t be present on every weapon, namely the utility and the sniper.  

Why not? Honestly im not sure whether i agree or disagree, just throwing ideas out there.  But i could see drop on the utility and sniper being fine i just wouldn't want it to be too aggressive or start too early.  This is one of those things that i would love Halo to be able to do, but they need to fix all the other shit first.  Honestly the ideal situation might be to code the ability to have bullet drop into the game and allow players to create custom weapon variants, but not have it "active" on launch by default.  Get the RRR, projectile speed, etc right first.  Then if they need to use it for balancing they could have another tool in the toolbox instead of just monkeying around with RRR all the time.

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The utility and human sniper are “boring” weapons.  There shouldn’t be anything really special about them.  They should be easy to understand.  Bullet drop isn’t easy to understand.  You need to have plain jane weapons alongside crazy alien weapons.  Brutes are a great species for weapon design because the weapons can be unfamiliar, non-human, but still archaic with traits like projectile drop.  

@Apoll0

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34 minutes ago, Boyo said:

The utility and human sniper are “boring” weapons.  There shouldn’t be anything really special about them.  They should be easy to understand.  Bullet drop isn’t easy to understand.  You need to have plain jane weapons alongside crazy alien weapons.  Brutes are a great species for weapon design because the weapons can be unfamiliar, non-human, but still archaic with traits like projectile drop.  

 @Apoll0

That may be true,  i wish i could play with it so i could really know.  I like bullet drop in other games. It really helps to separate players at extended ranges. Its also just plain fun to watch a bullet drop and still wack someone. What i don't like is damage dropoff. Game like Halo a hit is a hit is a hit. If they were to add bullet drop, i wouldn't really want it to be a factor in Arena-type ranges. There is enough back and forth fire at those ranges and in those gametypes i think minor compensation for projectile lead would be enough. Drop can be fun to compensate for when you aren't basically forced to shoot at the max fire rate of the gun all the time, like you are in Arena.

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You also have to consider that all grenades have projectile drop and grenades are used frequently in Halo gameplay so it’s not like players never have to account for distance in combat.

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Bullet drop would be absolutely unecessary and dumb 

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Projectile weapons already require players to account for distance when leading.  On most weapons, I don’t see a huge benefit to requiring them to account for projectile drop as well.  Certain weapons, like the Railgun which is single shot, charge up, and one bodyshot kill, can benefit from projectile drop though.  

Sniping in Battlefield does feel great though so I know that bullet drop can work in some games.

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Maaaybe on really long-range sniping (talking BTB crossmapping) drop could be cool, but other than obvious stuff like the grenade launcher I don't see the benefit of projectile drop in a game like Halo. I like the idea of the spiker having drop though if it ever returns. Could be cool.

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How about a weapon where the user controls the projectile drop?  Fire it over a wall then activate drop to send it straight down on an enemy below.

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