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Halo Infinite Discussion

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2 hours ago, Squatting Bear said:

Every ability, whether armor or spartan based has been implemented to reduce Halo's skill gap.  This dates back all the way to the easy as hell to use and gameplay halting equipment in H3.

I know this discussion has been had but equipment as an idea is just another archetype of tool to use in Halo, and it's done in the best way possible through on map pickups. The only issue with it was the specific implementation of some of them in Halo 3. I'd love to see them come back. 

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26 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

I know this discussion has been had but equipment as an idea is just another archetype of tool to use in Halo, and it's done in the best way possible through on map pickups. The only issue with it was the specific implementation of some of them in Halo 3. I'd love to see them come back. 

Do you think equipment should remain single use, deployable items or could the lines between equipment and armor abilities be blurred?  

For example, the Bubble Shield can only be deployed one time.  A Hardlight Shield with limited fuel could be activated multiple times before fuel runs out.  A Gravity Lift can only be deployed once.  A Thruster could have multiple uses before it is drained.

Could Hardlight Shield and Thruster work as Equipment or does having multiple uses disqualify them?  Or does the fact that Hardlight Shield and Thruster are not deployed onto the map disqualify them?

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26 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

I know this discussion has been had but equipment as an idea is just another archetype of tool to use in Halo, and it's done in the best way possible through on map pickups. The only issue with it was the specific implementation of some of them in Halo 3. I'd love to see them come back. 

Deployable Cover, Portable Lift and Power Drain. Only ones I would recommend.

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19 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

I know this discussion has been had but equipment as an idea is just another archetype of tool to use in Halo, and it's done in the best way possible through on map pickups. The only issue with it was the specific implementation of some of them in Halo 3. I'd love to see them come back. 

Honestly i'm fine with pretty much anything that is created as an on-map pickup.  Just don't fall in love with a creation simply because you created it. If it sucks, don't use it.  

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Just now, S0UL FLAME said:

Deployable Cover, Portable Lift and Power Drain. Only ones I would recommend.

Why Deployable Cover over Bubble Shield or Hardlight Shield?

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11 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

I think the only way to make clamber lower the skill floor without also the skill ceiling would be to design every single map and experience with it off. Making everything crouch-jumpable. Then let QA turn it on and try to break the maps.

 

Ideally though, I just don't see what it adds other than being an "oh shit" button for people that can't jump.  It could be made to be "not terrible" with some design principal and discipline followed by the designers but that doesn't make it good.

Even then it would shrink the skillgap unless you make clamber take like 5-10 seconds rofl. The punishment to missing a jump in a real Halo game is... you have to walk all the way around and do it again or find a new route. Depending on the map this can take ages or be a small detour but it's still more than the insignificant 0.8s window that clamber leaves you "vulnerable" in a game with a piss poor starting weapon and 5 combat evasion abilities.

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4 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Deployable Cover, Portable Lift and Power Drain. Only ones I would recommend.

I don't like items that basically halt gameplay.  Deployable cover, regen, bubble shield etc.  I also HATE crowd control items in pretty much any game i have ever played.

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1 minute ago, Apoll0 said:

 

I don't like items that basically halt gameplay.  Deployable cover, regen, bubble shield etc.  I also HATE crowd control items in pretty much any game i have ever played.

What does “crowd control items” mean?

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Just now, Boyo said:

What does “crowd control” mean?

CC items or abilities are things like Ana's sleep dart in Overwatch.  Anything with a binary "HEY you can't move or defend yourself in any way because of this thing i randomly chucked".  It feels cheap every single time.

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Would you have a problem with items like Bubble Shield or Regen in Asymetric gametypes where the Attackers may be at a disadvantage against the entrenched Defenders?

@Apoll0

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15 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Would you have a problem with items like Bubble Shield or Regen in Asymetric gametypes where the Attackers may be at a disadvantage against the entrenched Defenders?

@Apoll0

Yes.  Now my feelings on this are not balance related.  Its purely on feel which are the hardest arguments to make.  Nothing feels worse to me than lighting someone up then having them tap their "OH SHIT" button and drop a bubble shield or regen.  It feels cheap af. Same thing in hero shooters.  There is always that character that can just chuck some sleep grenade that leaves you there lying on the floor, drooling and helpless for 3 seconds while their teammate power-bangs you to death with their taint.  Where does that get fun?

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5 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

Yes.  Now my feelings on this are not balance related.  Its purely on feel which are the hardest arguments to make.  Nothing feels worse to me than lighting someone up then having them tap their "OH SHIT" button and drop a bubble shield or regen.  It feels cheap af. Same thing in hero shooters.  There is always that character that can just chuck some sleep grenade that leaves you there lying on the floor, drooling and helpless for 3 seconds while their teammate power-bangs you to death with their taint.  Where does that get fun?

The fact you got hit by that shows your lack of skill as that’s dodge able, not everyone has this mentality of individual domination, the usage of team shooting is what makes a hero shooter unique and fun, for someone such as yourself who loves a game like CE, you desire more games like it in the sense of individual domination capability. In a game like CE you rely far less on your teammate than other halos, at least in the regard of team shooting. You say getting hit by that feels cheap, but you need to look at the POV of someone who plays overwatch( by play I mean plays it regularly and is a huge fan, I’ve enjoyed the game for what it’s worth).

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Teamshot is actually pretty important in CE, but okay

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Imagine unironically defending all the terrible gimmick abilities in OW 

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11 hours ago, Boyo said:

Do you think equipment should remain single use, deployable items or could the lines between equipment and armor abilities be blurred?  

For example, the Bubble Shield can only be deployed one time.  A Hardlight Shield with limited fuel could be activated multiple times before fuel runs out.  A Gravity Lift can only be deployed once.  A Thruster could have multiple uses before it is drained.

Could Hardlight Shield and Thruster work as Equipment or does having multiple uses disqualify them?  Or does the fact that Hardlight Shield and Thruster are not deployed onto the map disqualify them?

Jump Boots in Unreal Tournament gave 3 uses, and they were bomb. Multiple use equipment is fine. Jetpack with limited fuel (on maps designed with it in mind) would be fine too.

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That stuff is fine in casual play in the same way that rockets are. I'd imagine comp would be better off without them.

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What if the Plasma Pistol was actually a viable utility weapon?

Primary fire: As usual but 3-6 shots to kill depending on balancing etc. 

Secondary Fire: Charged mode, projectile has no tracking: headshot kills and body shot makes someone one shot. You would have to lead shots/predict.

I feel like you could make The plasma pistol a viable starting/utility weapon with enough care. What do you guys think. 

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47 minutes ago, NAK said:

What if the Plasma Pistol was actually a viable utility weapon?

Primary fire: As usual but 3-6 shots to kill depending on balancing etc. 

Secondary Fire: Charged mode, projectile has no tracking: headshot kills and body shot makes someone one shot. You would have to lead shots/predict.

I feel like you could make The plasma pistol a viable starting/utility weapon with enough care. What do you guys think. 

Some people had this idea to fix the Boltshot in H4 before 343 just lazily turned it into another Needler in H5. Instead of the ez mode pocket shotgun it was, it should've fired a slow moving slug round kinda like a crossbow. It could be potentially cool as a semi-power weapon and I would prefer this 100x over the PP in most Halo games. Honestly the weapon has never really fit into the sanbox with the exception of the Reach PP. I just don't see a real use for it aside from BTB as a vehicle stun gun. It has no real place in Arena and the H2/A and H5 versions can fuck right off with their instakill combo potential.

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A plasma pistol with no charge up, that doesn’t home, and fires a small projectile seems better for arena play than a charge up, homing, large projectile plasma pistol.  It would actually require some skill to EMP an enemy, like direct impacting someone with a rocket.

@Basu

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7 hours ago, OG Nick said:

Teamshot is actually pretty important in CE, but okay

Hardly(someone having OS hardly counts) 

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4 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

That stuff is fine in casual play in the same way that rockets are. I'd imagine comp would be better off without them.

OS enhances vitality.  Power weapons enhance lethality.  I see no reason why movement enhancing pick ups have to be at odds with competitive play.

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1 hour ago, Arlong said:

Hardly(someone having OS hardly counts) 

You have no idea what you are talking about.  Teamshot is very important in CE like wtf are you smoking lol.  The fact that the magnum kills quickly doesn't make teamshot irrelevant, which im sure is about as deeply as you have thought about it. It makes it so a single player can clutch plays sure.  But you have to remember that everybody else has that weapon too. Plus the quick kill time is balanced by the long shield recharge. Unless the opponents are well below your skill level you need your teammates to teamshot to kill them quick enough that they can't turn on you and widdle you down through respawns.  Sure, a dominant player can wreck an entire team in CE that is far below their skill level but that is true in literally every competitive shooter ever created.

 

The fact that you think all crowd control gimmicks are dodgeable is also a laugh.  Some are fucking hitscan weapon, some are area of effect weapons, some are ultimate abilities.  Unless you have teleportation powers and 100% accurate awareness and prediction you're going to get hit with CC bullshit.

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The main inherent problem with equipment is being unable to see what your opponent has. This isn't a huge problem when the items aren't frustrating, though. There is a huge difference between dropping a bubble shield versus deployable cover. Because bubble shield is really stupid. Maybe it would be less stupid if you could shoot the bubble shield to move it out of the way, but it's much better suited for campaign, imo. Overall I think there is huge potential in campaign and multiplayer (custom games at the very least) for reasonable equipment. There are plenty of noninvasive ideas that could work well in BTB and allow for emergent, non-stagnant gameplay.

  • zero-g volume
Think Lawbreakers. About twice the size of a bubble shield, it could allow multiple players to stealthily make new jumps, mess up vehicle drivers, and create confusing gameplay scenarios when combined with other mechanics like explosive impacts and sword lunge. Maybe you could even attach the zero-g volume to vehicles to make a Ghost fly.
portal device
A sort of ball that, when deployed, teleports the user to its location after three seconds (more than enough time to kill an opponent). It would make the player's shields light up and hum. This would be a really cool mechanic in campaign, and for some reason I imagine the Brutes would use it to try to get up close. You could shoot it to telefrag the user, pop it into a mancannon right before engaging an opponent, ninja people, etc.
legacy armor abilities
Things like hologram and thruster pack make sense as charge-based abilities. These could allow for varied approaches to campaign segments. Maybe you save a thruster pack module through an entire campaign level and use it to cross a gap to skip an area.
custom equipment
Ability to modify existing equipment or attach new traits like you would with a custom powerup. Ability to tune number of uses, or recharge delay and rate if infinite. I can see a lot of potential for minigames with this one.

The best part is you can choose to leave some or most of these out of multiplayer or relegate them to BTB. Either way, it's not a big deal as long as the equipment isn't dumb and lacking counterplay (bubble shield, regen). And it's fine if the equipment is fairly useless in most situations, rather than lacking any negatives (regen), since it can be placed in uncontested areas to compensate. Just as with the weapon sandbox, I don't really care if a weapon is weak overall as long as it's somewhat interesting and doesn't feel cheap to use. If there aren't more than a couple types of equipment on any map, then a generic glowing equipment orb attached to the hip of the player model would probably be enough for people to predict the user's capabilities beforehand.

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I always though the regen would be cool if it only repaired vehicles and if it ever returns heals health. While I like the vehicle health system we've had since Reach (vehicles shouldn't be immune to utility damage) vehicles are a total deathwish once their health drops below 50% and since there's no way to repair them people just abandon and destroy them.

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5 minutes ago, Basu said:

I always though the regen would be cool if it only repaired vehicles and if it ever returns heals health. While I like the vehicle health system we've had since Reach (vehicles shouldn't be immune to utility damage) vehicles are a total deathwish once their health drops below 50% and since there's no way to repair them people just abandon and destroy them.

It would be kind of interesting if vehicles took a really long time to destroy, but just got progressively more terrible. Like the Warthog would lose all its armor and become slower, or the Ghost/Banshee would have a lower boost rate. Or weapon systems could be targeted and destroyed. Imagine the Ghosts guns were attached to those winglets and could be shot off independently. After going below a certain health threshold, a countdown would begin and the vehicle would eventually blow up (same sound effect as in Halo 2). Then you could use vehicles as bombs. Vehicles can be super oppressive so it would be nice to have more ways to take them down, while still being interesting to interact with.

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