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Halo Infinite Discussion

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2 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

The question that needs to be asked is this - what does clamber actually do for the game? 

The answer is literally nothing. 

Clamber allows for increased verticality in map design that players can still traverse.

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31 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Clambor allows for increased verticality in map design that players can still traverse.

Only if you specifically need a ledge that is exactly the height that clamber factors in and cannot be achieved in any other way (stairs, ramp, teleporter, ladder, jump pad, staggering the jump into two jumps, etc.) due to...reasons. 

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2 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Only if you specifically need a ledge that is exactly the height that clamber factors in and cannot be achieved in any other way (stairs, ramp, teleporter, ladder, jump pad, staggering the jump into two jumps, etc.) due to...reasons. 

ItS eXpEcTeD tO bE iN tHe GaMe

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2 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

The question that needs to be asked is this - what does clamber actually do for the game?  

It makes me feel like a supersoldier. You’re telling me a 10ft tall hunk of mech warrior can’t clamber up a simple ledge? I’ve been playing since Halo CE, and if there’s one thing that ever broke my immersion it was being stuck on the bottom of Prisoner. Why shouldn’t I be able to clamber to the top??

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6 hours ago, Boyo said:

Can players identify which walls are clamorable by looking at them?  Even if they can, why is the mechanic inconsistent, working some places and not others?  Making clamorable walls identifiable adds unnecessary visual clutter to the map.

That doesn’t sound desirable, IMO.  Map geometry should be the main factor in if a player can perform a jump, not because his base traits allow him to basically fly back up after jumping off a cliff.  Crouch jump allows players to make higher jumps but doesn’t allow them to fall off edges and climb back up.  If you really wanted to do that, isn’t a jump pack or a jet pack a simpler, more balanced solution anyway?

Destiny isn't really a vertical game and it's intended area's are pretty well defined. If you have to ask the question "can I clamber up there?" You can't and if you can it'll probably get patched if its even worth clambering up there. Even then I can't imagine it would be that hard to give clamber ledges a slight tint or something.

Jetpacks are slow and loud, you would easily identify if someone was attempting to come back from jumping off. I don't think I'd really want it in a Halo game either way, its just an interesting combination of mechanics that people don't really think about.

4 hours ago, Hard Way said:

If the map designer got to choose which ledges were able to be clambered, they were marked visually, they were exposed and risky and in meaningful positions, and the animation took like 3x as long, then sure. It’d be okay.

Clambering in Destiny doesn't even take that long, but it leaves you extremely vulnerable. You will die by the time the animation is done if you get caught while doing it.

3 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

The question that needs to be asked is this - what does clamber actually do for the game? 

The answer is literally nothing. 

This is the overwhelming the response I have gotten so far. I couldn't come up with really anything the game would add by having clamber, just that I don't think it would be that bad if it was included.

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2 hours ago, Boyo said:

You can strafe though.  Scoping in does not affect player movement aside from the fact that if the orb was facing right, you would “strafe” by moving the stick forward and back thereby moving the player model forward and back.

@Apoll0

Honestly this kind of makes me like it less.  If i'm using this thing, and i'm looking to the left and i want to strafe to the right i actually have to press forward on my movement? Opposite if i'm looking to the right.  I could see there being a lot of frustration from people simply not moving the way they expect based on POV. You wouldn't have to strafe very far before your body is totally exposed anyway, which makes the point of something like this kind of moot?

 

One of the things that people hate playing games is when people "head glitch".  I know i hate that.  Its always annoying when someone can shoot you without exposing themselves (tehehe). This is basically a tool that would allow you do that on any vertical geometry.

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How about this instead, Reload causes the orb to detach from the weapon and remain where it is.  Scope toggles between player view and orb view.  So you could place your orb somewhere and move to a different location but still switch back and fire from the stationary orb.  But the orb has 50% damage resistance and if it’s destroyed, you die too.

@Apoll0

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15 minutes ago, Nokt said:

Jetpacks are slow and loud

They don’t necessarily have to be.

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

How about this instead, Reload causes the orb to detach from the weapon and remain where it is.  Scope toggles between player view and orb view.  So you could place your orb somewhere and move to a different location but still switch back and fire from the stationary orb.  But the orb has 50% damage resistance and if it’s destroyed, you die too.

@Apoll0

Dying if something that is detached from my body is destroyed doesn't make sense.  That's basically a remotely controlled turret.  I think you could try working in a turret that can be controlled remotely, but i wouldn't make it a deployable item.  I would rather just let that be a tool in the toolbox of the map designer.  Something that is weaker than a standard turret since you can't see the operator to kill them.  Or something that has a health pool close to that of an actual player.

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I mean, there could be some kind of neural link between you and the orb so that destroying the orb also destroys your mind.  And ya know, the body cannot live without the mind.

@Apoll0

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8 minutes ago, Boyo said:

I mean, there could be some kind of neural link between you and the orb so that destroying the orb also destroys your mind.  And ya know, the body cannot live without the mind.

@Apoll0

Lol that sounds more like some Matrix/Minority Report type shit not Halo shit.

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8 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

Lol that sounds more like some Matrix/Minority Report type shit not Halo shit.

The plot line of Halo Infinite is that the events of past games have just been Cortana simulating it all in Chief’s mind and he is still in cryo sleep.  You wake up in the chamber at the beginning of CE.

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8 minutes ago, Boyo said:

The plot line of Halo Infinite is that the events of past games have just been Cortana simulating it all in Chief’s mind and he is still in cryo sleep.  You wake up in the chamber at the beginning of CE.

lol that might be their best option to fix the Halo 5 story fuckery.

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

The plot line of Halo Infinite is that the events of past games have just been Cortana simulating it all in Chief’s mind and he is still in cryo sleep.  You wake up in the chamber at the beginning of CE. 

Honestly all I want to see in Infinite is Arbiter and friends finding Chief on the Forward Unto Dawn in cryosleep after the events of H3. Chief wakes up, there's no sprint, no "nanobot magic new armor" bullshit, no prometheans. The story then takes it from there, retconning the events of H4 and 5.

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I'd rather clamber become blindingly fast then slowed down to punish players for using it. Philosophically it's more important to not wrongfully punish good people, even if that means letting some bad people through the cracks unpunished - than it is to wrongfully punish some good people in effort to catch every bad player. That extends to game design as well. Inevitably the best players will find themselves in a long drawn out animation with their face shoved into the wall while they're being shot in the back in the name of "risk vs reward", which tbh is silly. Make the mechanic as unnoticeable as possible.

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As far as I'm concerned clamber is the only spartan ability where they admitted it was added with the sole intention of shrinking the skill gap (because Frankie sucks at jumping and needed a safety net).

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4 hours ago, Gobias said:

It makes me feel like a supersoldier. You’re telling me a 10ft tall hunk of mech warrior can’t clamber up a simple ledge? I’ve been playing since Halo CE, and if there’s one thing that ever broke my immersion it was being stuck on the bottom of Prisoner. Why shouldn’t I be able to clamber to the top??

I love the level of sass in this post. 

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1 hour ago, MultiLockOn said:

I'd rather clamber become blindingly fast then slowed down to punish players for using it. Philosophically it's more important to not wrongfully punish good people, even if that means letting some bad people through the cracks unpunished - than it is to wrongfully punish some good people in effort to catch every bad player. That extends to game design as well. Inevitably the best players will find themselves in a long drawn out animation with their face shoved into the wall while they're being shot in the back in the name of "risk vs reward", which tbh is silly. Make the mechanic as unnoticeable as possible.

I view it as a "premium" vantage point/route. Ever play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory MP? There's co-op jumps that lead to different routes, but you need to invest both members of the teams' time/exposure to use them. I always liked that aspect of the game. If the map designer got to pick and choose which areas could be clambered into, I think you could have something similar in Halo. But the clamber speed in H5 is so fast that it wouldn't feel like a special route. It should cost the user something to use it. In the case of clamber, that'd be time/exposure.

I feel the same way about designing routes into a map that can only be taken via grenade jump or a boost jump off of your partner. Give them a common visual cue, and elsewhere in the game, teach the user what it means and how to use them. I think those two things are pretty severely underutilized by map designers thusfar in Halo's lifespan.

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A jump that you can only make while no one is watching you doesn’t make it special.  It makes it boring and bad for aggressive gameplay.

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32 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I view it as a "premium" vantage point/route. Ever play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory MP? There's co-op jumps that lead to different routes, but you need to invest both members of the teams' time/exposure to use them. I always liked that aspect of the game. If the map designer got to pick and choose which areas could be clambered into, I think you could have something similar in Halo. But the clamber speed in H5 is so fast that it wouldn't feel like a special route. It should cost the user something to use it. In the case of clamber, that'd be time/exposure.

I feel the same way about designing routes into a map that can only be taken via grenade jump or a boost jump off of your partner. Give them a common visual cue, and elsewhere in the game, teach the user what it means and how to use them. I think those two things are pretty severely underutilized by map designers thusfar in Halo's lifespan.

CSGO has similar from the little I've watched of competitive. Jump on top of another player to boost yourself to either throw a grenade or get into an area. 

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43 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I view it as a "premium" vantage point/route. Ever play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory MP? There's co-op jumps that lead to different routes, but you need to invest both members of the teams' time/exposure to use them. I always liked that aspect of the game. If the map designer got to pick and choose which areas could be clambered into, I think you could have something similar in Halo. But the clamber speed in H5 is so fast that it wouldn't feel like a special route. It should cost the user something to use it. In the case of clamber, that'd be time/exposure.

I feel the same way about designing routes into a map that can only be taken via grenade jump or a boost jump off of your partner. Give them a common visual cue, and elsewhere in the game, teach the user what it means and how to use them. I think those two things are pretty severely underutilized by map designers thusfar in Halo's lifespan.

But that's a total different game. Games like that or CoD or whatever else are about weighing the risk and reward of movement; that's almost the entire premise. Should I move to a better spot and sacrifice my ability to fight back or should I not? That's also why the entire objective of those games requires people to move to certain areas; otherwise no one would move. 

Halo was unique and successful because it didn't do that; it allowed people to move and fight back at the same time. It wasn't a twitch shooter, but it also wasn't a "tactical" shooter. It was an amalgamation of both. Movement became rolled into the overall skillgap; the best players could move well while also shooting well. You shouldn't be punished for moving, you should be punished for standing still. I don't want obnoxiously slow animations for certain movements because that breaks the entire flow of Halo. 

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What do you think about a brute world map where brute weapons have the ability to destroy it.

 

Light Cover is wood or dense vegetation.

 

The Spiker can penetrate and deal damage through light cover.

The Fireburst grenade can ignite and burn down light cover.

The Chopper can smash and drive through light cover.

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21 hours ago, Basu said:

As far as I'm concerned clamber is the only spartan ability where they admitted it was added with the sole intention of shrinking the skill gap (because Frankie sucks at jumping and needed a safety net).

Every ability, whether armor or spartan based has been implemented to reduce Halo's skill gap.  This dates back all the way to the easy as hell to use and gameplay halting equipment in H3.

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I think the only way to make clamber lower the skill floor without also the skill ceiling would be to design every single map and experience with it off. Making everything crouch-jumpable. Then let QA turn it on and try to break the maps.

 

Ideally though, I just don't see what it adds other than being an "oh shit" button for people that can't jump.  It could be made to be "not terrible" with some design principal and discipline followed by the designers but that doesn't make it good.

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This really all just comes down to an "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." type of situation. Clamber is a "solution" to a non-existing problem.

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