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Halo Infinite Discussion

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11 minutes ago, JordanB said:

Halo might not be one thing, but there are things that are not Halo. 

Kill streaks aren't Halo. Wall running isn't Halo. Specialists or having a special ability that you either get to choose, or level up to, are not Halo. 

I didn't define what Halo is in my above post, I just defined what Halo isn't. 

What if I told you I felt Halo: Reach onwards felt more like Halo to me, than CE to 3 did? Pretty arbitrary definitions and statements to me, lol.

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13 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

What if I told you I felt Halo: Reach onwards felt more like Halo to me, than CE to 3 did? Pretty arbitrary definitions and statements to me, lol.

Again, I didn't define what Halo is, I just said Halo isn't kill streaks or wall running. I'm not here to argue that sprint isn't Halo, because it's been in the last few games. It isn't what I want, but I won't say it's not Halo. 

Beast, if they added kill streaks in Halo then I guess you could argue its now Halo, but at the same time the general cod fan wouldn't say that wall running is cod even though it's been in a few games. Maybe I'm wrong and I'll happily take that if I'm wrong, but the majority of the cod community outcried loud enough to remove it in upcoming games. Maybe a small community likes wall running in cod, but in general, it doesn't define cod. 

And to your original point of "if Halo had kill streaks from the beginning I'd be all for it"... Well yeah, bec that would be part of what makes Halo, Halo. I'm not here to argue what the best possible FPS game can be, I just want the best possible Halo, and if Halo has never had kill streaks (which would COMPLETELY change the way the game is played) then it shouldn't be in the game. 

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I think one problem with Ordnance is that the scoring keeps going up, even if the player dies.  Aside from a few fringe cases, dieing should completely reset the player.  

If two players just respawned, one shouldn’t be able to call down a power weapon while the other cannot.  That’s not equal spawns.

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Just now, JordanB said:

Again, I didn't define what Halo is, I just said Halo isn't kill streaks or wall running. I'm not here to argue that sprint isn't Halo, because it's been in the last few games. It isn't what I want, but I won't say it's not Halo. 

You're kinda defining it, lol. Even if you're saying this is what it isn't, it's still a quality that makes it, it, to you. But hey, okay.

5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

If two players just respawned, one shouldn’t be able to call down a power weapon while the other cannot.  That’s not equal spawns.

If two players just respawned, one shouldn't be able to just pick up a weapon while the other cannot. That's not equal spawns.

Not to sound condescending, but "equal starts" means jackshit to me in a game dominated by the idea of pickups and shit that inherently make the game uneven.

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That’s the point.  You start equal then fight over things that make you unequal.

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7 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

You're kinda defining it, lol. Even if you're saying this is what it isn't, it's still a quality that makes it, it, to you. But hey, okay.

If two players just respawned, one shouldn't be able to just pick up a weapon while the other cannot. That's not equal spawns.

Not to sound condescending, but "equal starts" means jackshit to me in a game dominated by the idea of pickups and shit that inherently make the game uneven.

I can say something isn't something, without saying what it is or defining it, but okay. 

An apple doesn't take like pizza. Am I defining what an apple is? 

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Just now, JordanB said:

I can say something isn't something, without saying what it is or defining it, but okay. 

An apple doesn't take like pizza. Am I defining what an apple is? 

I think apple tastes like pizza. What say you?

But by that point, yes. It's a really long-winded definition but you're clearly defining an apple as not a pizza by how it tastes and you could continue this trend until you reach the point where you're defining an apple by everything it isn't. Like you are defining Halo as no killstreaks, wall running, etc. Halo isn't this. So Halo is something without killstreaks, wall running, etc. You could potentially do the same thing with Halo and any other game, albeit even more long-winded because what makes a game a game to individuals like us isn't exactly quantifiable, or objective.

5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

That’s the point.  You start equal then fight over things that make you unequal.

Yes, and that's what I'm arguing against. The inequality of pickup design. I don't like that.

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You literally can’t make something more fair than spawning two players an equal distance away from an objective then rewarding the player who secures it.

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3 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I think apple tastes like pizza. What say you?

But by that point, yes. It's a really long-winded definition but you're clearly defining an apple as not a pizza by how it tastes and you could continue this trend until you reach the point where you're defining an apple by everything it isn't. Like you are defining Halo as no killstreaks, wall running, etc. Halo isn't this. So Halo is something without killstreaks, wall running, etc. You could potentially do the same thing with Halo and any other game, albeit even more long-winded because what makes a game a game to individuals like us isn't exactly quantifiable, or objective.

Yes, and that's what I'm arguing against. The inequality of pickup design. I don't like that.

It would take me my entire life to say "apple doesn't taste like x" until every food possible was listed, and even then that still doesn't define what an Apple is bec I'm not telling you what it taste like, I'm just telling you what it isn't. 

That's my last point with this, bec at this point I'm just repeating myself. 

Also, are you just arguing my point of "Halo isn't x" or are you actually arguing for kill streaks, bec if it's the latter that completely contradicts your opinion of snow balling. I just want to make sure what you're actually arguing here. 

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1 minute ago, JordanB said:

It would take me my entire life to say "apple doesn't taste like x" until every food possible was listed, and even then that still doesn't define what an Apple is bec I'm not telling you what it taste like, I'm just telling you what it isn't. 

That's my last point with this, bec at this point I'm just repeating myself. 

Also, are you just arguing my point of "Halo isn't x" or are you actually arguing for kill streaks, bec if it's the latter that completely contradicts your opinion of snow balling. I just want to make sure what you're actually arguing here. 

I literally argued against (Scorestreaks) earlier. I think in relation to pickups with power weapons being a thing, they're better. But, again, as I said, I'd rather both not be there.

However, my point was that even if it would take you your entire life, you're still doing it. You will still reach the point where you're defining an apple by what it isn't. Which is what you're doing here. What Halo isn't to you IS what Halo is to you. Halo isn't killstreaks, wall-running, etc. Okay, so Halo is something you define without killstreaks or wall-running. Because if they had that, they wouldn't be Halo.

Just now, Boyo said:

You literally can’t make something more fair than spawning two players an equal distance away from an objective then rewarding the player who secures it.

Except this isn't the case. Even on a map like Pit. Two players to the right or left of the one at the top of the stairs spawn farther away from the rockets, but closer to the camo. It's never an equal distance, and that can outright determine every opening. God forbid we talk about assym maps. My point more so referred to an active game where people are never directly spawning across from each other or equally, because of things like spawn manipulation and the like. All eight players dying at once won't just symmetrically reset you. Two people trading won't. You will almost never spawn fairly at a base, lol.

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What power weapons are acceptable and what method of obtaining those power weapons is acceptable?

Please don’t answer none and none and that you want the game to be Utility weapon only.

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You’ve kept playing a game where you dislike a fundamental aspect of it for 20 years?

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25 minutes ago, Boyo said:

You’ve kept playing a game where you dislike a fundamental aspect of it for 20 years?

Team Swat life

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15 minutes ago, Boyo said:

You’ve kept playing a game where you dislike a fundamental aspect of it for 20 years?

No, I grew to dislike it over my years of playing. Was once indifferent. That changed. My mindset mostly shifted in 2017/18. So I've only been playing Halo disliking power weapons for about a year or two.

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Maybe the button combos on the Halo 2 Battle Rifle helped you enjoy the multiplayer more because they decreased the relative power of power weapons.  Do you think that could have anything to do with it, a utility weapon that can compete with power weapons?

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18 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

No, I grew to dislike it over my years of playing. Was once indifferent. That changed. My mindset mostly shifted in 2017/18. So I've only been playing Halo disliking power weapons for about a year or two.

Smh you were poisoned. 16 Kelly GOAT

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2 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Smh you were poisoned. 16 Kelly GOAT

Imagine. I was poisoned. And didn't come to this conclusion on my own. Because I certainly don't have my own thought patterns and processes. Whew.

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

Imagine. I was poisoned. And didn't come to this conclusion on my own. Because I certainly don't have my own thought patterns and processes. Whew.

Correct

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25 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Maybe the button combos on the Halo 2 Battle Rifle helped you enjoy the multiplayer more because they decreased the relative power of power weapons.  Do you think that could have anything to do with it, a utility weapon that can compete with power weapons?

No. I didn't even know combos existed until I came here in 2015. And I don't know how to do any of them, still. I just think I didn't question any of it. I knew it was always frustrating to die to rockets, regardless of the game, I just never thought it out fully until recently.

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Stop pretending like you guys aren't lizards and changing my game into a reptilian wasteland filled with ordinances and promethian vision.

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Having power weapons on the map adds a level of depth and strategy to how a team engages, rotates and how they decide to attack and defend the objectives. Without them every engagement would follow the same thought process and strategy. Imagine a game of Counter Strike where there wasn’t an economy system and it was just 30 pistol rounds. The game withought any small reward mechanics would just be repetitive, less strategic, and just boring. Sometimes perfect competitive balance isn’t the only thing to consider. Also as an esports viewer watching just utility weapons the whole time would become awful. 

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4 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

No, I grew to dislike it over my years of playing. Was once indifferent. That changed. My mindset mostly shifted in 2017/18. So I've only been playing Halo disliking power weapons for about a year or two.

You mean playing literally THE Halo game with the biggest, objective discrepancy between the spawn in player weaponry versus the weaponry on map broke the camels back? What a shock.

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11 minutes ago, The Tyco said:

You mean playing literally THE Halo game with the biggest, objective discrepancy between the spawn in player weaponry versus the weaponry on map broke the camels back? What a shock.

Uuuuuuh, what. I just said I was aware dying by rockets was dumb to me well beforehand, if you're referring to 5, here. It was only recently that I figured out how to properly articulate it. My mindset shift was more so going from "balance to removal". Not from "good to bad". To me it was always dumb.

25 minutes ago, andregr said:

Having power weapons on the map adds a level of depth and strategy to how a team engages, rotates and how they decide to attack and defend the objectives. Without them every engagement would follow the same thought process and strategy. Imagine a game of Counter Strike where there wasn’t an economy system and it was just 30 pistol rounds. The game withought any small reward mechanics would just be repetitive, less strategic, and just boring. Sometimes perfect competitive balance isn’t the only thing to consider. Also as an esports viewer watching just utility weapons the whole time would become awful. 

How do you figure? Or, rather, what depth is being added by a static power weapon? The two key things of it, static location and a static timer make it so you're reliant on moving to specific parts of the map, at specific times to get specific things. And everyone else is too. That isn't really depth. That's being forced to do something, or be at a disadvantage. You are being essentially strongarmed into doing it or being punished, which is ironically enough, repetition. Following the same pattern. I can't count the amount of times I've moved on Pit off spawn and hurled a nade off a wall to the red/blue side of the map to damage people because they hold the literal same angle every time. Basically a habit. So is immediately jumping to camo on Truth/Rig, etc. And it's not depth that this occurs every so often. It's artificial difference because the actual strategy to get things isn't that radically huge, and you're essentially operating on a predetermined path. The meta to getting things isn't exactly changing, lol.

When you remove the power weapons/ups, you see players are able to move more freely off spawn, and in general, because they're not bound to having to hold specific angles for a two minute timer. They're simply moving around/to and holding the map's key points. You could see it with launch Haven to Turbo Haven in Halo 4, and especially on Truth from launch to HCS once the sword and fuel rod got removed.

I guess, further, as an esports viewer too who questions this, how do power weapons make streams more engaging? What I like seeing is pros getting into good gunfights and having a good reversal, or showing map knowledge to juke someone mid gunfight. The last thing I wanna see is someone just mopping the floor with someone when they have rockets. As I've said, this boils down to preference, obviously. You're not wrong for liking it, but I'm just eternally curious as to what makes it engaging at all. To me it's more frustrating.

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