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If you think people just “walk across” rockets in CE you must also think people just “walk across” the oddball or just “walk across” the hill. The power ups in slayer ARE the objective. If you are going to complain that you lost because your opponent keeps killing you with rockets even though you destroyed them in every 1v1 utility weapon fight you may as well complain that your opponent won a game of king of the hill because they got more time than you even though you destroyed them in every single 1v1 utility fight.

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2 minutes ago, RVG E Nomini said:

I gotta check out this logic from beastprincess.

Okay, so if the more skilled team wipes out the less skilled team, there shouldn't be power weapons on the map so that they can beat the less skilled team even harder? If that's correct, then lets apply it to power positions on maps. A more skilled team who wipes out a less skilled team shouldn't be able to gain a map advantage that allows them to win even harder against the less skilled team. Therefore, all maps should be symmetric and look like a competition paintball course.

Brilliant stuff you two, someone send this argument to 343 before they ruin infinite for everyone.

Hi, BeastPrincess here, we acknowledge that is an advantage. But it's where it should begin and end. Map control IS the reward for the initial push being won. HOWEVER, the difference between raw kill potential of a rocket to a BR, and a simple change in say, elevation that most positional increases dictate is massive. You sitting in a power position doesn't give you a guaranteed advantage like a rocket will. You don't get an easier weapon, or a necessarily easier shot on someone. Like sitting in a base door on Truth to fight someone at P3. Likewise, if you have a rocket, you can literally circumvent power positions. Without any skill, or through improper plays. Which is where a lot of core issues lie. 

Just now, LI Mr X IL said:

If you think people just “walk across” rockets in CE you must also think people just “walk across” the oddball or just “walk across” the hill. The power ups in slayer ARE the objective. If you are going to complain that you lost because your opponent keeps killing you with rockets even though you destroyed them in every 1v1 utility weapon fight you may as well complain that your opponent won a game of king of the hill because they got more time than you even though you destroyed them in every single 1v1 utility fight.

As I said, I don't care about Slayer, lol. I want it gone, too. Terrible comp gametype. None of my points really reside on it, other than the fact it's terrible because it relies on shit like this.

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If you're a smarter/better player you can kill an opponent who has a Sniper or Rocket

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29 minutes ago, JordanB said:

If you're a smarter/better player you can kill an opponent who has a Sniper or Rocket

You could beat a bot with rockets if you have a BR. This sentence doesn't really mean much. I'm talking on equal skill, playing the weapon efficiently.

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1 hour ago, TheIcePrincess said:

You could beat a bot with rockets if you have a BR. This sentence doesn't really mean much. I'm talking on equal skill, playing the weapon efficiently.

This happens in HCS events all the time you dolt. 

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12 minutes ago, Arlong said:

This happens in HCS events all the time you dolt. 

Don't call me mean names. :< Hurts my feelings, and I'm gonna cry and report you. 

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Shotzzy got back smacked with rockets by neighbour in a close game of Narrows TS last event so

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It's obviously not a fixed decision, it's a ratio. And I'm referring to "happening across a power weapon" in the sense that with extreme attention and practice you'll be able to lock down the weapons / objectives. But I've lost many doubles matches in Halo, quake, whatever that basically came down to my team winning every static encounter but they happened to win the single encounter before the quad damage spawned, or the OS came up. Meaning a 5-0 run, with one inconvenient death at the end can instantly be flipped because they happened to win the encounter before the tide turning weapon spawned. That's bullshit in my eyes. And it's happened to me to frequently to become content with the current state of arena shooters.

Now if you happened to control that run and you do secure the pickup... It's worth asking why. You already won the encounter and secured the point (in slayer) what sense does it make that they're further rewarded. In my eyes that's just snowballing, albeit more mild.

 

Hence why I don't like power weapons, or the way they've ever been handled at least. Whatever skill is added in controlling the map leading up to that spawn I think is compromising the natural integrity of the rest of the games gun fights. Especially with the "fast spawning weapons" that a lot of people here champion for, there's not even enough down time for let the highest skill encounters play out without influencing every decision because of things spawning constantly. There's nothing I would love more in quake than to simply focus on out moving and out maneuvering the other player and doing my best to juke them, but the LONGEST interval without something spawning is 30 seconds. More realistically it's every 15 seconds because health and armor are staggered. What that means is you're just running from destination to destination, not ACTUALLY making your own decisions. It's both insanely mentally  challenging and yet somehow mind numbingly repetitive. 

 

I don't have an issue with things spawning quickly, but you shouldn't feel obligated to go for them. Gears of War has done a better job with its sandbox historically because the difference in the type of skill between the snub, shotgun, longshot, and torque bow are actually different enough that not everyone picks them up. It's entirely possible to be good with the sniper in that game and suck with the shotgun. I think that'll be the ideal goal for Halo is to get to the point where someone could actually BE a good "shotgun" player, or a great sniper. But perhaps bad at something else because the weapons and powerups actually offer different non transferable skill sets. There's no such thing as a bad shotgun player in Halo. Or someone who's "good"with rockets. They're just easy, and better. It was only ever true of the sniper and not even any more. 

 

That same reasoning is why I think slayer is a more competitively viable gametype than objective, or at least it could be if we had viable dev maps that didn't rely on objective or weapons to incentive movement. I don't like that forced weapon pickups force players to predictable decisions, and I don't like that map movement and decision making is boiled down to just focusing on the objective. You're never REALLY allowed to perform how you could.

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10 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

It's obviously not a fixed decision, it's a ratio. And I'm referring to "happening across a power weapon" in the sense that with extreme attention and practice you'll be able to lock down the weapons / objectives. But I've lost many doubles matches in Halo, quake, whatever that basically came down to my team winning every static encounter but they happened to win the single encounter before the quad damage spawned, or the OS came up. Meaning a 5-0 run, with one inconvenient death at the end can instantly be flipped because they happened to win the encounter before the tide turning weapon spawned. That's bullshit in my eyes. And it's happened to me to frequently to become content with the current state of arena shooters.

Now if you happened to control that run and you do secure the pickup... It's worth asking why. You already won the encounter and secured the point (in slayer) what sense does it make that they're further rewarded. In my eyes that's just snowballing, albeit more mild.

 

Hence why I don't like power weapons, or the way they've ever been handled at least. Whatever skill is added in controlling the map leading up to that spawn I think is compromising the natural integrity of the rest of the games gun fights. Especially with the "fast spawning weapons" that a lot of people here champion for, there's not even enough down time for let the highest skill encounters play out without influencing every decision because of things spawning constantly. There's nothing I would love more in quake than to simply focus on out moving and out maneuvering the other player and doing my best to juke them, but the LONGEST interval without something spawning is 30 seconds. More realistically it's every 15 seconds because health and armor are staggered. What that means is you're just running from destination to destination, not ACTUALLY making your own decisions. It's both insanely mentally  challenging and yet somehow mind numbingly repetitive. 

 

I don't have an issue with things spawning quickly, but you shouldn't feel obligated to go for them. Gears of War has done a better job with its sandbox historically because the difference in the type of skill between the snub, shotgun, longshot, and torque bow are actually different enough that not everyone picks them up. It's entirely possible to be good with the sniper in that game and suck with the shotgun. I think that'll be the ideal goal for Halo is to get to the point where someone could actually BE a good "shotgun" player, or a great sniper. But perhaps bad at something else because the weapons and powerups actually offer different non transferable skill sets. There's no such thing as a bad shotgun player in Halo. Or someone who's "good"with rockets. They're just easy, and better. It was only ever true of the sniper and not even any more. 

 

That same reasoning is why I think slayer is a more competitively viable gametype than objective, or at least it could be if we had viable dev maps that didn't rely on objective or weapons to incentive movement. I don't like that forced weapon pickups force players to predictable decisions, and I don't like that map movement and decision making is boiled down to just focusing on the objective. You're never REALLY allowed to perform how you could.

Good post.

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5 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Hi, BeastPrincess here

giphy.gif 

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5 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

giphy.gif 

What's up, people, it's ya girl, PurpleCranium with a HUGE DOSE OF HALO NEWS FROM E3 2019. 

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6 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

H8R

stfu noob

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5 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Smack. That. Like. BUTTON.

Fuckin make me ******

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The Wingship is a troop transport vehicle.  It is a floating, boomerang shaped craft.  The operator stands on top, manning the forward facing turret, while infantry independently move below the vehicle.  Rotating the turret rotates the entire vehicle, which includes a small top-frontal shield for the operator’s protection and a large bottom-frontal shield for the infantry’s protection.  The underside of the vehicle emits a regeneration field.

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8 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Good post

I agree power weapons can increase snowballing. It was an issue in H5 from recent memory, and can be more easily seen in non-competitive settings for Halo specifically. However, the main idea I've seen tossed around is that both teams are "equally skilled" so one is gaining a distinct advantage from having the power weapon. In CE specifically, because it has the best iteration of slayer in Halo personally, it is not uncommon to see a team get rockets with some ease but not keep them. Teams rarely are able to hang on to the rockets, whether it be because of communication or simply they lacked awareness when committing to using a rocket on a player. Even when a better team has rockets I very rarely feel I can't contest the player with rockets. Derelict is the worst map about this, with prisoner coming up next. It's simply because if you catch the rocket player off guard or take a more advantageous position, specifically in CE, you are as big or more of a threat to the rocket player than they are to you. 

I won't deny liking Halo games with zero on map power items, with it being pure utility weapon, but maps are not designed well enough for that to work in a fun way without an objective. I played lots of H5 with no power items on map, and lots of H5 with them. H5 specifically is more fun. However I've played CE with gentlemens rules about power items and it's really not as good. Some maps it works well, or even can make them better (Derelict). Other maps suffer Damnation, Chill Out, Battle Creek, Rat Race. 

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Power Weapons are an objective. If you lose the fight for them the enemy still has to execute good play. They aren't an auto win. Every top esport title has a similar item that is on the map equally contested by both teams. In OW & CoD they're in the form of killstreaks or ultimate abilities. In MOBAS it's a wide range of buffs. In BRs there are locations with better loot and midmatch drops. In Gears it's also weapons.

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If you don't like how the core mechanics, features, and gameplay functions in Halo...then maybe the game isn't for you?  

I'll never understand why or how people on these forums and above want to change the core aspects of Halo instead of just....playing a different game that does what you want in an FPS but better.  

I have a piece of advice, if all you do is whine and complain that you're losing to the things that you're supposed to lose to like power weapons and such; go find a game that doesn't include them.  Because this is part of what Halo is.

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36 minutes ago, Squatting Bear said:

If you don't like how the core mechanics, features, and gameplay functions in Halo...then maybe the game isn't for you?  

I'll never understand why or how people on these forums and above want to change the core aspects of Halo instead of just....playing a different game that does what you want in an FPS but better.  

I have a piece of advice, if all you do is whine and complain that you're losing to the things that you're supposed to lose to like power weapons and such; go find a game that doesn't include them.  Because this is part of what Halo is.

You should never just lose to something. It's not fun.

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Arguing about the relative strength and execution of "power weapons" is one thing.  Trying to get them removed entirely from the sandbox is untenable. you're trying to play a different game. They shouldn't be "easy button" weapons, but they should still exist and be an important part of the gameplay.  They should nudge a team toward victory, not hand it to them.  Its not an easy balance to strike, but it is doable and when its right the game plays so much better.

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8 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

You should never just lose to something. It's not fun.

Could you elaborate on this?  Your meaning is unclear.

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1 hour ago, Knighty Knight said:

 In OW & CoD they're in the form of killstreaks or ultimate abilities.

I agree with your sentiment but this is just a bad comparison. Power weapons in Halo have predictable spawn times, still take certain degree of skill to use effectively and most of all you can deny your enemy access to them. You can't do shit about an Ult in OW besides trying to gamble when it comes up because it's 1) on a timer 2) that time is basically random because the random scoring accelerates it and 3) ults are the definition of free kills, honestly the rockets are nothing compared to most OW ults (the only thing that keeps them in check is other gimmicky shit like Invulnerability Fields and the hundreds of barriers tanks can spam).

Same goes for CoD, you can theoretically guess when an enemy gets a certain killstreak but again these are all brainless fire and forget kind of weapons/gadgets and you can't control your team feeding the enemy kills while in Halo you can still deny an enemy rockets or a powerup even if you have a thumbless timmy on your team.

Sorry for the nitpicky wall of text, but this kind of poor comparison is exactly what Ice and Beast's argument is mostly founded on. Again, I agree Halo has swayed more and more towards bullshit territory with the strenghts of power weapons in recent titles, but it's nowhere near as bad as killstreaks and ults.

When Reach comes to MCC I really hope we can get GoldPro lobbies going at some point, because that ruleset the closest to a good sandbox in terms of starting weapon vs pickups that we had since CE. A 4sk DMR at 1.2s TTK with good hitreg, maps with mostly the Grenade Launcher, Sniper and Shotgun as pickups on fast timers, wide variety of maps and gametypes, it doesn't get much better than that.

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