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Halo Infinite Discussion

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2 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I find it funny you think H3 Chief looks metal, lol. He looks like a Transformer toy suffering from GPS. Especially around the shoulder and forearm. It looks so much like molded plastic with some metallic paint under a harsh light. Would say it's the result of a poor CG model, which it half is, but it also happens to carry over in-game. 

Second, the lighting you're comparing entirely differs from the two comparisons of H2A/H3. Just look below. You can see the paint chafing, betraying a metallic gray base, the softness of the light on the armor makes it properly dull, matte, over a glowing green, and actual softness comes from the rubbery techsuit. It's all a matter of lighting. As far as this stillframe goes, it looks very much akin to an in-engine H2A Chief, and easily denotes the fact it's pure metal. Which is a-okay. Conveying metal isn't done just by sheen and reflection, and generally shouldn't be in this sense. You can convey it by how it looks when it's worn down, even if you're using dark shades like black. And they do that just fine by graying out the edges of the armor, especially bicep pieces.

Furthermore, yeah, of course his forearms look bigger than his biceps. That's anatomy, let alone what armor will do to you. That isn't exactly a new thing.

TL;DR: Looks fine, dude.

r09GIlq.jpg

 

That picture was taken from reddit I didn't make it, but I was using it to make an argument.  The chief in the trailer is poorly textured. I don't care whether the in-game model of H3 matched the screenshot above from its CGI trailer, I was just showing better examples of how metal should look. I don't need to sit here and try and convince you if it looks like metal or not when I've read half a hundred other comments saying the same.  Even the screenshot you linked above looks like an action figure.  That being said - it's a very easy fix.  Minutes even, if the artists wanted it done.

 

" Furthermore, yeah, of course his forearms look bigger than his biceps. That's anatomy, let alone what armor will do to you. That isn't exactly a new thing. "

Right, but spartan's in game have never been anatomically correct.  They always used stylized proportions for good reason, correct limb length/girth gets funky when it comes to placing shots.  Lots of games, Halo included, increase the chest and head and then shrink the legs to make combat more purposeful.  If you played a good amount of Halo 4 you'll notice sometimes things like rockets or grenade will fly right inbetween enemy player's legs with some frequency more than they used to.  This is just a side effect of having "correct" leg proportions.  I think it's a bigger deal than it sounds and is one of those things that just makes the shooting very purposeful in Halo.  You're shooting at a relatively tight silhouette instead of a flailing blob of limbs like you see in titanfall sometimes.

 

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Chief looks jacked, which is fine he should be.  But everything does look like it has a light coating of silicone spray on it.  At least it doesn't look like modeling clay like H5.  Im optimistic by launch it should be fine.

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Infinite Chief is the same colour as H2A Chief. Which I am 100% fine with, H2A Chief is by far my favourite/the best iteration of Chief we've seen.

 

Image result for Halo 2 Anniversary Chief

Image result for Halo Infinite Chief

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3 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

You're clearly just looking to argue with me at this point.

That picture was taken from reddit I didn't make it, but I was using it to make an argument.  The chief in the trailer is poorly textured. I don't care whether the in-game model of H3 matched the screenshot above from its CGI trailer, I was just showing better examples of how metal should look. I don't need to sit here and try and convince you if it looks like metal or not when I've read half a hundred other comments saying the same.  Even the screenshot you linked above looks like an action figure.  That being said - it's a very easy fix.  Minutes even, if the artists wanted it done.

 

" Furthermore, yeah, of course his forearms look bigger than his biceps. That's anatomy, let alone what armor will do to you. That isn't exactly a new thing. "

Right, but spartan's in game have never been anatomically correct.  They always used stylized proportions for good reason, correct limb length/girth gets funky when it comes to placing shots.  Lots of games, Halo included, increase the chest and head and then shrink the legs to make combat more purposeful.  If you played a good amount of Halo 4 you'll notice sometimes things like rockets or grenade will fly right inbetween enemy player's legs with some frequency more than they used to.  This is just a side effect of having "correct" leg proportions.  I think it's a bigger deal than it sounds and is one of those things that just makes the shooting very purposeful in Halo.  You're shooting at a relatively tight silhouette instead of a flailing blob of limbs like you see in titanfall sometimes.

 

I'm not looking just to argue, I just happen to disagree with you here. Most of the reason I said this was because of the "this is amateur" comment. Pretty arrogant, IMO.

And yeah, you used it to make an argument, but I'd say the argument is flawed because the image is comparing Chief across multiple different mediums. One's a simple, finished high poly CGI render, the next is an in-engine trailer a year and a half off launch, and the last is a CG trailer shot. My issue is not using in-engine shots of anything bar Infinite. And saying metal is mainly conveyed through shine and reflectiveness, when it isn't. Not only will things change in the next year and a half, but many series have shown dark metal characters looking fine when they don't shine. Because metal as a texture can be entirely conveyed through its wear. And its dull nature. Not even going into sound design. As I said, it looks fine for accomplishing a metallic look. It's dull, showing age, has some paint chafing, and is what I expect from armor used in war. Dull, drab.

That said, what exactly have you done pertaining to character model shading and the like? I don't wanna speak for or against anyone, but having tinkered with models before, trying to figure out transparency and the like for animation, it isn't exactly just minutes of work to just fix how a character looks in light, or how their armor inherently looks. I hope that was hyperbole, frankly.

And the anatomy's varied. Halo 4 and 5 had some pretty close/well done anatomy, albeit maybe a bit slimmed, but Halo 3 for example had offset shoulders, and weird jank proportions. My point wasn't on gameplay, just that wrists/forearms looking bigger is natural and a-okay by my view, just like Halo 4's slimmed forearms were. I think it makes the armor look better, over a CEA-type thing where Chief's wrists and hands sequentially shrink down from the bicep down.

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It's almost as if they didn't show any gameplay to hide the fact that Infinite will have sprint/spartan abilities, and they don't want to drive people away. 343 is playing some 4D chess with our feelings.

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1 minute ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I'm not looking just to argue, I just happen to disagree with you here. Most of the reason I said this was because of the "this is amateur" comment. Pretty arrogant, IMO.

And yeah, you used it to make an argument, but I'd say the argument is flawed because the image is comparing Chief across multiple different mediums. One's a simple, finished high poly CGI render, the next is an in-engine trailer a year and a half off launch, and the last is a CG trailer shot. My issue is not using in-engine shots of anything bar Infinite. And saying metal is mainly conveyed through shine and reflectiveness, when it isn't. Not only will things change in the next year and a half, but many series have shown dark metal characters looking fine when they don't shine. Because metal as a texture can be entirely conveyed through its wear. And its dull nature. Not even going into sound design. As I said, it looks fine for accomplishing a metallic look. It's dull, showing age, has some paint chafing, and is what I expect from armor used in war. Dull, drab.

That said, what exactly have you done pertaining to character model shading and the like? I don't wanna speak for or against anyone, but having tinkered with models before, trying to figure out transparency and the like for animation, it isn't exactly just minutes of work to just fix how a character looks in light, or how their armor inherently looks. I hope that was hyperbole, frankly.

And the anatomy's varied. Halo 4 and 5 had some pretty close/well done anatomy, albeit maybe a bit slimmed, but Halo 3 for example had offset shoulders, and weird jank proportions. My point wasn't on gameplay, just that wrists/forearms looking bigger is natural and a-okay by my view, just like Halo 4's slimmed forearms were. I think it makes the armor look better, over a CEA-type thing where Chief's wrists and hands sequentially shrink down from the bicep down.

Well if we're speaking strictly in game models then I'm with you 100%. I'm just saying if we're this close to getting what could be considered near perfect I would love it they want the extra mile and just corrected some textures. But yes obviously if we're strictly speaking in-game models then this is the best we've gotten I think.  I don't think anyone here disagrees that this is the best looking chief 343 has ever put out at least. Again the comparison shots are exactly that, comparisons. I think either of those chiefs still look better personally.

 

Reflectiveness and other material attributes can be changed on a slider in Substance Painter and most modern engines will show the updated material in almost real time. Changing the perceived material of chief very well could be done in minutes to great effect. I haven't done extensive material work because I'm not a material artist obviously but I've done enough to know how it works. And I know what I'm looking at right now is a little off.

 

On the note of the body proportions. I'll agree with you again there in strictly for visual purposes correct proportions look nicer. I just think it causes gameplay to be a bit finnicky. I think Halo 3 for all its caricaturized sizes had the best models to shoot at.

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2 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Well if we're speaking strictly in game models then I'm with you 100%. I'm just saying if we're this close to getting what could be considered near perfect I would love it they want the extra mile and just corrected some textures. But yes obviously if we're strictly speaking in-game models then this is the best we've gotten I think.  I don't think anyone here disagrees that this is the best looking chief 343 has ever put out at least. Again the comparison shots are exactly that, comparisons. I think either of those chiefs still look better personally.

 

Reflectiveness and other material attributes can be changed on a slider in Substance Painter and most modern engines will show the updated material in almost real time. Changing the perceived material of chief very well could be done in minutes to great effect. I haven't done extensive material work because I'm not a material artist obviously but I've done enough to know how it works. And I know what I'm looking at right now is a little off.

 

On the note of the body proportions. I'll agree with you again there in strictly for visual purposes correct proportions look nicer. I just think it causes gameplay to be a bit finnicky. I think Halo 3 for all its caricaturized sizes had the best models to shoot at.

Okay. 

Okay.

Nah, strongsiding. Halo 5's entirely just for the ability to never do that. Proportions mean nothing to my views on how my bullets hit something. Bit irrelevant to me. 

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4 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Okay. 

Okay.

Nah, strongsiding. Halo 5's entirely just for the ability to never do that. Proportions mean nothing to my views on how my bullets hit something. Bit irrelevant to me. 

Well first of all that's more of an animation thing than a proportion thing.  I'm saying in H3 more than any other game I've played I know exactly what I'm shooting at all the time, no matter how far (whether the bullets hit is a different question). The silhouette is tight, controlled, the limbs aren't flying and bouncing around all over when they turn and run. I've had more shots go between legs in Halo 4 than I care to admit because the legs are longer and they spread more for the running animation in an attempt to be realistic.

 

On another note, do people here not like strongsiding? I always thought it was a really unique skill only found in H3. Requires some knowledge of the play space to do, and is pretty inoffensive.

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3 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Well first of all that's more of an animation thing than a proportion thing.  I'm saying in H3 more than any other game I've played I know exactly what I'm shooting at all the time, no matter how far (whether the bullets hit is a different question). The silhouette is tight, controlled, the limbs aren't flying and bouncing around all over when they turn and run. I've had more shots go between legs in Halo 4 than I care to admit because the legs are longer and they spread more for the running animation in an attempt to be realistic.

 

On another note, do people here not like strongsiding? I always thought it was a really unique skill only found in H3. Requires some knowledge of the play space to do, and is pretty inoffensive.

Yeah, in that case I've never had that problem then. Never. Of course, this raises the question of "what circumstance makes you aim between the legs enough that you notice you can miss more often than not". But that's its own thing.

And yeah, hate strongsiding. It's just a really dumb escape tool in the same vein as thrust. Worst part is you can absolutely tank a BR burst or two to the body, assuming all three in the burst hit. When that's half the weapon's perfect killtime, which is already slow and inconsistent, it's pretty easy to escape a 1v1 situation even if the opponent is hitting you. Nothing like having your accuracy be irrelevant to someone who becomes a Destiny boss for a brief moment, lol.

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56 minutes ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

Infinite Chief is the same colour as H2A Chief. Which I am 100% fine with, H2A Chief is by far my favourite/the best iteration of Chief we've seen.

H2A has my favourite Halo singleplayer aesthetic by far. Tops Halo 3 imo.

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18 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

On another note, do people here not like strongsiding? I always thought it was a really unique skill only found in H3. Requires some knowledge of the play space to do, and is pretty inoffensive.

I'm a little mixed on strongsiding. I like when as much of the skill somehow effects aiming or looking where you're going. Like I enjoy moving around waterfalls on Damnation while fighting somebody top snipe or snipe perch. Moving around those platforms while looking where you're going is easy, looking away to engage in a fight makes movement harder.

Strongsiding takes away your ability to look where you're going tying movement to aim in a sense, which I like. However the long kill times and fairly easy maps to navigate in H3 makes me not like it as much. Add some narrow catwalks or gaps you have to junp across or else you fall to your death and I would like it a little more.

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30 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

On another note, do people here not like strongsiding? I always thought it was a really unique skill only found in H3. Requires some knowledge of the play space to do, and is pretty inoffensive.

Halo 2 first. Think about where the name comes from homie.

As for it being a good thing or a bad thing...it’s frustrating af when someone uses it right, but I have to acknowledge  that recognizing the exact moment to use it and executing it well can be challenging sometimes. Overall I don’t mind it but I don’t love it. I think I’d prefer the H1 method where looking down doesn’t protect your head, which leads to fighting back being the best option in most situations.

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9 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

H2A has my favourite Halo singleplayer aesthetic by far. Tops Halo 3 imo.

Yeah, and Infinite looks to be very heavily inspired by it, which makes me happy. Just wish they'd realized that H2A's art style was gold earlier so they could've used it for 5. 

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Strongsiding is the perfect example of a good escapability enhancing mechanic.  It’s an existing function, looking down, but requires skill and knowledge to pull off effectively.  It only gives the slightest boost in escapability and is very situational so it’s not constantly used.  Plus, I think it adds to the spectator/commentator experience.

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53 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Well first of all that's more of an animation thing than a proportion thing.  I'm saying in H3 more than any other game I've played I know exactly what I'm shooting at all the time, no matter how far (whether the bullets hit is a different question). The silhouette is tight, controlled, the limbs aren't flying and bouncing around all over when they turn and run. I've had more shots go between legs in Halo 4 than I care to admit because the legs are longer and they spread more for the running animation in an attempt to be realistic.

 

On another note, do people here not like strongsiding? I always thought it was a really unique skill only found in H3. Requires some knowledge of the play space to do, and is pretty inoffensive.

Bro what

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1 minute ago, Jake Teh Nub said:

Bro what

Wasn't sure about H2, my mistake. I only knew it didn't work in CE and wasn't effective after 3.

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The only things I'd change about the armor design would be the color and shoulders. I like the darker green of h3 and the smaller triangular shoulders of the early armors.

 

Other than that I like the update overall.

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Strongsiding is a skill just like knowing when to sprint away from a losing battle is a skill. Sure, some people are really good at staying alive, e.g. Pistola, but I have no idea why you would want to encourage that in a game with recharging shields. This isn’t Quake where speed is a skill and you have to worry about weapon knockback messing up your escape. H5 is the first game after H1 where there’s literally no point in ducking your head but that’s just because the headshot hitbox and magnetism are ridiculous—it was quite common in H4.

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22 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Wasn't sure about H2, my mistake. I only knew it didn't work in CE and wasn't effective after 3.

Yeah it's most useful in H2 along with Gandhi hopping. And yeah after Halo 3 they both became fairly useless.

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8 minutes ago, Gobias said:

Strongsiding is a skill just like knowing when to sprint away from a losing battle is a skill. Sure, some people are really good at staying alive, e.g. Pistola, but I have no idea why you would want to encourage that in a game with recharging shields. This isn’t Quake where speed is a skill and you have to worry about weapon knockback messing up your escape. H5 is the first game after H1 where there’s literally no point in ducking your head but that’s just because the headshot hitbox and magnetism are ridiculous—it was quite common in H4.

The only skill I can think of with it is just situational awareness. Since you have to sacrifice it somewhat. That's also it's trade off along with not being able to shoot. This is a problem with sprint because the speed boost is too much of an advantage, which strong siding doesn't have. This also means that the pacing issues brought on by having 2 primary movement speeds isn't present. Although there may be issues with the increase in random kill times since you can't even predict when someone will strongside but I'm not convinced the effect is as severe.

 

In short, it's relatively inoffensive but not something that's necessarily worth encouraging.

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Not talking about textures and lighting here, but i think the new model looks better than ever before. I can understand that some people may prefer the older Halo2/3 more toyish/arcade model. This new Chief looks more realistic, heavier, stronger, while still  maintaining the beauty of classic art style.

Edit: There is one thing that bothers me though. All around, we see the push for this realistic feel, realistic models, animations. But one thing i love about videogames is the carroonish, arcade style of models and animations, mostly seen in games from japan. Those more or less cartoonish characters with hand made animations have often more life in them than any real-like characters in many western games. I used to have this good cartoon vibe in older Halo games, mostly in Halo 3/Odst, especially in cutscenes. It made those games more alive and real than any foto realistic textures and motion capturing. I am kind of sad it's mostly gone from Halo.

The only ones that seems to find the right way how to combine real-like and cartoonish styles together are again folks from japan like Kojima and From Software.

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Should passing through a vehicle reduce the damage a sniper rifle round deals?  More specifically, should it be possible to one shot kill a player inside an enclosed vehicle with a sniper headshot?

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5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Should passing through a vehicle reduce the damage a sniper rifle round deals?  More specifically, should it be possible to one shot kill a player inside an enclosed vehicle with a sniper headshot?

Depends. On a tank I'd say you first have to destroy the hatch because honestly tanks move too slow to die to a single sniper shot, it would lead to really lame gameplay like the tanks in CE, which are absolute meme tier with the exposed head of the chief + stationary target + 3sk.

On Warthogs and all flying vehicles I'd say definitely yes. Nothing feels more rewarding that sniping a helicopter pilot in Battlefield 3/4.

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How many sniper shots do you think are appropriate to destroy the Scorpion’s hatch?  3?  So you can take out a tank in one perfect sniper mag?

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