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6 hours ago, Gold said:

I miss how optimistic you were when MCC was announced.

But man let them hype it up and be happy, lol Jesus.

Even I can get clowned every now and again. 

Serves me right for getting excited. 

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What do you think of this Shock Rifle inspired weapon?

 

The Tidal Rifle is a battery operated, semi automatic, hitscan weapon that can aim down sights to the equivalent of a 2x scope.  It kills in 6 shots (1.2 seconds) with a headshot.

 

Alt Fire (reload button) fires a large, slow moving projectile that temporarily reduces the damage resistance of an impacted player by 50%.  Impacting a mid air projectile with the weapon’s primary fire releases an explosion that does no damage but reduces all impacted players’ damage resistance by 99%.

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I guess I'm just curious what the difference is between doing a lot of damage vs reducing a lot of damage resistance?

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7 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I guess I'm just curious what the difference is between doing a lot of damage vs reducing a lot of damage resistance?

Vehicles and Overshield.  Doesn’t kill them but makes them easier to kill.

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1 hour ago, Hard Way said:

I guess I'm just curious what the difference is between doing a lot of damage vs reducing a lot of damage resistance?

Doing more damage is preferable than tanking it.

Think of damage boost vs Overshield, if each of them grant equivalent bonuses in the opposite medium.  It's much easier for an attacking player to kill a damage boost player because although the kill times shrunk, the players reaction time doesn't necessarily scale.  So a grenade + headshot is still a possibility for an instant kill without receiving any damage in return.  OS removes a lot of that potential.  It's why I think there's actually this perfect number somewhere in the void for kill times vs. health pool where human reaction times actually make sense. CoD will never make sense because you can't react to dying that fast, no matter HOW skillful the guns get. There are opposite scenarios where it's basically impossible to kill someone in Halo 3 with any non-instant kill weapon without receiving damage unto yourself.

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@MultiLockOn

I think Overshield can be interesting because it allows for a variety of methods to counter it.

Plasma Pistol - strip shield 

Boltshot - deal damage directly to health 

Needle Rifle - supercombine 

Tidal Rifle - damage resistance reduction 

Energy Sword - vampirism 

Plasma Launcher - full charge 

 

Even though its not a “grenade+headshot”, I feel like Overshield can have many counters and these counters make gameplay more interesting overall.

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52 minutes ago, Boyo said:

@MultiLockOn

I think Overshield can be interesting because it allows for a variety of methods to counter it.

Plasma Pistol - strip shield 

Boltshot - deal damage directly to health 

Needle Rifle - supercombine 

Tidal Rifle - damage resistance reduction 

Energy Sword - vampirism 

Plasma Launcher - full charge 

 

Even though its not a “grenade+headshot”, I feel like Overshield can have many counters and these counters make gameplay more interesting overall.

The only one of those that is actually a counter to the OS is the Plasma Pistol, which tbh I've always found silly.  What is the point of fighting over a long-spawning map pickup and controlling it if someone can pick up a 30 sec. respawn weapon off the ground that isn't contested to completely invalidate all the work that went into controlling the OS.  Granted this scales with the difficulty and strength of the rest of the sandbox.  In CE, whatever. The PP doesnt track well and grenades melt the OS anyways. In Halo 2 - 5? Just pick that shit up off the ground and forget about the OS.

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When the rest of the sandbox isn’t under powered, OS doesn’t have to be on a long respawn timer.

 

Plasma Pistol is a hard counter to OS.  I prefer a softer approach where the weapon isn’t one shotting the OS off but can compete against it.  For example, when the Boltshot damages health directly, if the OS user wins the gunfight, killing the Boltshot user first, none of his OS has been depleted.  Or the Tidal Rifle’s alt fire.  It doesn’t do any damage itself, just allows for the opportunity to deal extra damage.

@MultiLockOn

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3 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Doing more damage is preferable than tanking it.

Until the enemy team picks up the Quad Damage

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Just now, S0UL FLAME said:

Until the enemy team picks up the Quad Damage

Yeah because the NATURAL time to kill in that game is so long that there's basically no chance of you dealing damage to someone with quad damage without them tuirning around and one shotting you.  Which is why i said it doesn't scale in both directions, I think there's an actual ideal perfect kill time and health pool somewhere to discover.  Quake's is probably too long for powerups and anything outside of 1v1.

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Should automatics be balanced around Head damage multipliers? What I mean is that automatics would do more damage when hitting the head (it applies to both shields and health), causing it to have a low TTK if all shots hit the head but higher TTK if the bullets are hitting the body. 

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4 minutes ago, Darkomantis said:

Should automatics be balanced around Head damage multipliers? What I mean is that automatics would do more damage when hitting the head (it applies to both shields and health), causing it to have a low TTK if all shots hit the head but higher TTK if the bullets are hitting the body. 

No because autos have tons of spread making headshots a dice roll instead of a test of skillful aiming. Exceptions would be spreadless autos such as a plasma rifle or maybe reworked needler/spiker with no spread could have a headshot multiplier.

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34 minutes ago, Darkomantis said:

Should automatics be balanced around Head damage multipliers? What I mean is that automatics would do more damage when hitting the head (it applies to both shields and health), causing it to have a low TTK if all shots hit the head but higher TTK if the bullets are hitting the body. 

Autos should not be strong

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3 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Autos should not be strong

A perfectly accurate, projectile, automatic weapon with a headshot multiplier would require a long time on target (or time leading target rather) as well as accurate aim to achieve the minimum killtime.  If the argument is that autos do not require as much skill so they shouldn’t kill as fast then a weapon like this would debunk that.

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Just now, Boyo said:

A perfectly accurate, projectile, automatic weapon with a headshot multiplier would require a long time on target (or time leading target rather) as well as accurate aim to achieve the minimum killtime.  If the argument is that autos do not require as much skill so they shouldn’t kill as fast then a weapon like this would debunk that.

Autos should not be strong

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I'd like the AR to have accurate tap/burst firing, but a wide spread if fired full auto. Make it bloom out quickly, but also reset quickly to emphasize this. Give it a decent amount of ammo per magazine, maybe 40+ rounds. Make its overall handling faster than the utility, like swap speeds, reload speed, ect. Keep its damage consistent, slower than the utility and throw headshot mechanics in the trash.

Doing this would make the AR:

1. Perform its role as a close range spray weapon to help counteract camo users, while still being a useful backup weapon for fights outside typical close range engagements.

2. High capacity makes the weapon more oppressive/suppressive and able to outlast the utility in engagement times.

3. Maintains high level usage due to versatility in exchange for lethality.

So basically, make it cross between the CE AR and Halo 4 TU AR.

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1 hour ago, Basu said:

No because autos have tons of spread making headshots a dice roll instead of a test of skillful aiming. Exceptions would be spreadless autos such as a plasma rifle or maybe reworked needler/spiker with no spread could have a headshot multiplier.

What about making the spread consistent or reducing the spread to make the Auto more accurate but does less damage over distance? That way autos will gain emphasize on being a close range weapon while using head damage multipliers to make them more skillful and justify them being better as a weapon. 

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Stop trying to make spammy noob weapons skillful and just let the utility weapon do its job.

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2 minutes ago, Mythik Nick said:

Stop trying to make spammy noob weapons skillful and just let the utility weapon do its job.

I fail to see how the utility can't do its job in a more varied sandbox, nor am I making the AR a skillful weapon. I want weapons with purpose more than weapons that compete with the utility.

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3 minutes ago, The Tyco said:

I fail to see how the utility can't do its job in a more varied sandbox, nor am I making the AR a skillful weapon. I want weapons with purpose more than weapons that compete with the utility.

But the AR already has a purpose. It's meant for people who are new to the game and can't aim properly and only know how to walk in straight lines while holding down the trigger at other people who are just as bad.

And it's pretty clear that reducing the bloom while tap firing to extend the effective range is adding some skill element. But the AR doesn't really need to take more skill nor does it need to have any effectiveness past close range. Just use the utility weapon lol.

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The purpose of the AR is to be boring as shit to use so the rest of the sandbox looks better by comparison.  And so Campaign marines can fire it.

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On 5/14/2019 at 8:58 AM, Boyo said:

What do you think of this Shock Rifle inspired weapon?

 

The Tidal Rifle is a battery operated, semi automatic, hitscan weapon that can aim down sights to the equivalent of a 2x scope.  It kills in 6 shots (1.2 seconds) with a headshot.

 

Alt Fire (reload button) fires a large, slow moving projectile that temporarily reduces the damage resistance of an impacted player by 50%.  Impacting a mid air projectile with the weapon’s primary fire releases an explosion that does no damage but reduces all impacted players’ damage resistance by 99%.

I remember that in Halo 3 forge I would sometimes try to shoot a rocket with the sniper causing a midair explosion, and I assume that was the inspiration for this weapon.

It wouldn't work. Players would use the 50% alt fire as a makeshift mauler and the 99% alt fire would be incredibly cheesy and annoying.

For the 99%, if the alt fire projectile was sufficiently slow, it would be useless in open areas (unless the enemy was unaware they were being fired at), while simultaneously rendering narrow pathways impassable as any sufficiently skilled player would kill any player passing through them by making them one shot with a very quick follow-up.

The 99% alt fire combo would essentially be a more over powered version of noob combo, as you wouldn't even have to switch weapons to finish the kill. Also, its base firing mode is really powerful on it own, making this weapon very op.

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@TI Inspire

The alt fire projectile is slow, can be shot out of the air by any precision weapon, and doesn’t do any actual damage.  In order to get a kill the user would have to alt fire, hit the mid air alt fire with a primary fire in the vicinity of an enemy, then shoot the enemy again to finish him.  That’s three shots, landed in a very specific fashion, with no damage being dealt until the very last shot.  If the weapon was any weaker, you might as well just use the four shot kill utility weapon ([email protected]).

I don’t see a problem with alt fire plus melee combo being lethal.  It kills marginally faster than a double melee.

Do you think allowing non-precision weapons to shoot the ouchie orb out of the air would temper its strength?  The AR would be a great counter to hallway orbs.

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6 hours ago, TI Inspire said:

I remember that in Halo 3 forge I would sometimes try to shoot a rocket with the sniper causing a midair explosion, and I assume that was the inspiration for this weapon.

Nah fam. 

 

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Just make the orbs do damage roughly like the concussion rifle, a combo should do about as much damage as a sniper body shot. I don't see how fucking with damage resistance is 1) a good idea to balance the weapon and 2) intuitive to the user. It could work as a grenade type or its own weapon though that could be cool. I like Zenyattas discord orb in OW. 

The concern about the alt fire + melee cheese is valid though. Maybe give it a smaller melee range and hitbox? 

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