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Hard Way

My proposal for the Halo: CE 4v4 playlist.

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I'm with you there. The new maps are a godsend for 4's. And Zero Hour CTF is a favorite among our LAN crew in Ohio.

 

To be clear about the big maps, they're not my jam either. I think that's something H1 players should naturally outgrow over time. However, I was trying to cater to what people want/expect outside of the competitive community. I've seen this stuff come up too many times in reddit threads or conversations with casual players in person. I did my best to mitigate the things that make it undesirable/long, short of making it 1 cap to win, which was tempting (time limits, no touch return, no flag at home to score, Assault rules on Sidewinder, vehicle respawns, etc). Also, I'm still under the impression that there will be gametype/map voting, so you may not even have to play them that much if your team doesn't want to. I just thought it would be kind of a middle finger to casual players to not include them.

Yes I still think they should be in there because almost everyone gets their start in a giant H1 map but I'm just biased. 

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-Vehicle Respawn: This is a wonderful quality of life addition in the PC version that will return idle vehicles to their starting spawn. Because the vehicles are indestructible, they often lie around abandoned for large chunks of time. Players often lose track of them, which hurts game flow. Sometimes players even horde the vehicles in out of the way places and force everyone to play on foot. Also, this option alleviates blocking the enemy portal on Blood Gulch for long stretches of time. Set it to something that doesn’t intrude too much on gameplay, but still punishes poor use of your vehicles. I think 90 seconds is about right.

 

-Vehicle Count: Unless otherwise noted, each team should get 1 standard warthog, 1 ghost, and 1 scorpion. That’s the way most people lan’d the bigger maps on Xbox.

 

I'm really hesitant about throwing scorpions onto the map by default. Scorpions on the map basically nullify interesting Warthog play and promote vehicle hoarding. 

 

 

On a related note, I think another interesting way of incorporating the big maps into your 4v4 settings is with a real Race mode.

 

Team Race:

 

Team Scoring: Sum

Race Type: Any Order

Team Play: Yes

Laps to Win: 25

 

Vehicles:

4 Rocket Hogs, both sides (could be normal Hogs if we're focused on excluding GB content, but RHogs are more interesting in vehicle vs vehicle)

 

Vehicle Respawn Time:

60 seconds

 

Weapons on Map:

 

-Either Short Range or None

 

The best vehicle race maps are:

 

-Death Island

-Timberland

-Ice Fields

-Infinity

 

Unlike most gametypes on these maps, Race is a pretty focused and succinct, and its a great way of experiencing CE's vehicle sandbox even if we end up without a way to play BTB in CE.

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I'd love to see more reverse tag, such an underrated gametype.

It is really good, but I'd only want to use it on a map that otherwise wouldn't support Oddball. We play it a lot on the new maps. Imminent plays it well.

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No scorpions or ghosts in 4v4 imo.

 

Leave that for big team battle.

 

I think the big classic maps are a must. I think CE is so dead on MCC because honestly 343 overcatered to us with 2v2. There always should have been 4v4 with big maps included. That's what literally everyone remembers and wants to play. Then they boot up MCC and are greeted with sweaty ass 2v2 which is broken because of the skill matching you with basically anyone because the population is so small. 2v2 is for a select few who had no friends or who stayed in the competitive scene. They did not cater to the casuals enough which would have been a good gateway into competitive if they really liked playing CE in the 4v4 list.

 

Personally I mean I dunno how everyone else feels but I'd probably play 4v4 CE all the time, moreso than 2v2 even though I am a diehard competitive CE player. Why? Because MCC is so broken that I hate how angry it makes me feel when nothing is working like it does on LAN. At least in 4v4 I don't feel any pressure, I can lose 50-20 and really not even care or get upset because it's basically an arcade game with how fast and random it is.

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Sooo uh, this might actually be happening soon  :fire:  :mj:  :intel:  :weback: 

 

Edit: Timberland is out, and Priz TS moves into the top tier.

 

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Sooo uh, this might actually be happening soon  :fire:  :mj:  :intel:  :weback:

 

Edit: Timberland is out, and Priz TS moves into the top tier.

 

 

He mention any kind of timeline on the change? 

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Sooo uh, this might actually be happening soon  :fire:  :mj:  :intel:  :weback:

 

Edit: Timberland is out, and Priz TS moves into the top tier.

 

 

 

You cautioned against oddball on an abyss map, played oddball dammy. Lol, good lord they need to remove that. Hopefully they follow your original proposal. 

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Just to be candid, I will probably QTB if I ever get race.

 

Thrilled to hear they're open to incorporating reverse tag and CTF on asym maps in matchmaking, I've been waiting for a medium to grind those gametypes.

 

Thanks for your work here, hard way. Now just remove race, blood gultch and sidewinder from your recommendations and this playlist should be in good shape.

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Just to be candid, I will probably QTB if I ever get race.

 

Thrilled to hear they're open to incorporating reverse tag and CTF on asym maps in matchmaking, I've been waiting for a medium to grind those gametypes.

 

Thanks for your work here, hard way. Now just remove race, blood gultch and sidewinder from your recommendations and this playlist should be in good shape.

Haha it was my pleasure bud. I’m not big on BG and SW either, but it’s important to look at the big picture here. That’s what people remember, want, and expect to play. I’ve done everything I can short of making it 1 cap to win to make them enjoyable. Hopefully it’s enough, and they end up just playing like a slower paced game. Also, it looks like CTF will be Warthogs only.

 

As for Race, just try it. Rally rules are waaaay better than regular race. It focuses all the action on a single, random point. It actually gets kind of intense on Hang Em. As for BG, I think the Warthog/Scorpion dynamic will be pretty fun. The hog will be the go-to for scoring over moving on foot, but the tanks counter the hogs, but the infantry counters the tank (open hatch+pistol). I purposely excluded the ghosts because they throw off the RPS balance of this gametype. It might be more fun than you expect.

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Haha it was my pleasure bud. I’m not big on BG and SW either, but it’s important to look at the big picture here. That’s what people remember, want, and expect to play. I’ve done everything I can short of making it 1 cap to win to make them enjoyable. Hopefully it’s enough, and they end up just playing like a slower paced game. Also, it looks like CTF will be Warthogs only.

 

As for Race, just try it. Rally rules are waaaay better than regular race. It focuses all the action on a single, random point. It actually gets kind of intense on Hang Em. As for BG, I think the Warthog/Scorpion dynamic will be pretty fun. The hog will be the go-to for scoring over moving on foot, but the tanks counter the hogs, but the infantry counters the tank (open hatch+pistol). I purposely excluded the ghosts because they throw off the RPS balance of this gametype. It might be more fun than you expect.

>put tank behind base

 

>turn tank backwards so no open hatch.

 

>spawn kill galore xd.

 

its okay its just casual ce. i'm fine with everything. 

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>put tank behind base

 

>turn tank backwards so no open hatch.

 

>spawn kill galore xd.

 

its okay its just casual ce. i'm fine with everything.

Still takes damage spam it with grenades and pistol.

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I understand not making TS 100 kills to win, for now. Everything else? Fuck no. How fucking hard could it POSSIBLY be to change the score to win to 5 minutes/5 caps? Why are you adding Battle Creek KotH and NONE of the other excellent obj gametypes? Why are you adding BG snipers when I EXPLICITLY AND SUCCINCTLY explained why that's a horrible fucking idea? I hope no one's teammate decides to hide in a base, because you'll get spawn raped for the rest of the game. That's literally all it takes. Every spawn is at one of the two bases, and if one teammate anchors spawns at a base, you will only spawn there for as long as he's alive. Cool job guys. Don't take my advice at all.
 

I love how they look at the main problem with the playlist (4-5min average game length), and their solution is to increase Slayer weighting, which is almost always sub 4 minutes. Fucking unreal. This company continues to find new and creative ways to crush my confidence in them.

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Isn't it literally more work to fuck this up? A simple copy and paste job would get it done much faster and everyone would be happy. Just why?

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Isn't it literally more work to fuck this up? A simple copy and paste job would get it done much faster and everyone would be happy. Just why?

 

Adding in 100 kills to win has to wait until the next update, which I understand, as it currently doesn't even exist in the game. But apparently it's super fucking difficult to create a new gametype, or even change the damn score to win in obj games.

 

I'm trying to tell myself that this is just step 1 in what apparently will be a multistep process. There's still a good chance that the full change list will be implemented with the next patch. But man, they make it so hard to believe in them.

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Granted I don't know how CE's code is structured, and I definitely don't know about MCC CE code but putting in a score limit isn't more difficult than maybe adding in one more check on what the score limit is. 

 

The UI would be the hardest part, but it should be able to accept and display any number pretty easily. 

 

Again, I'm not sure how CE is coded because there might be issues in the code itself that make it hard to raise the score limit beyond a quick fix. 

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Why are you adding BG snipers when I EXPLICITLY AND SUCCINCTLY explained why that's a horrible fucking idea? I hope no one's teammate decides to hide in a base, because you'll get spawn raped for the rest of the game. That's literally all it takes. Every spawn is at one of the two bases, and if one teammate anchors spawns at a base, you will only spawn there for as long as he's alive.

 

I remember having great casual fun with BG Snipers way back in the day. But back then, spawns weren't something I ever thought about.

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I remember having great casual fun with BG Snipers way back in the day. But back then, spawns weren't something I ever thought about.

Smaller player counts get away with it a lot easier. I came out so strong against it because it’s incredibly easy and likely for a player to do this to his team accidentally. In 2’s and even 3’s you’re way more likely to get random spawns. In 4’s, there’s just too high of a chance to get an unwitting spawn anchor.

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You know what... I agree it should be 100 kills in TS 4v4... But ONLY if something is done about quitters.

 

With the amount of games that end up in 4v1 or 4v2 it becomes a game of hide and seek where players just REFUSE to quit, as if they just want to stay in the game to spite their opponents.

 

Just played a BC TS where it ended in 4v2 and the enemy team kept hiding in the base dragging the game on forever. We need join in progress or games that are 4v2 need to just end or something.

 

I've had a few good games I wish had lasted longer but I've had far more games where I just wanted the game to end already.

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Chill Hard Way, Tyler explained the GVARS shit and apparently changing anything at all is basically impossible without a patch. Makes no sense to me that they would program it this way but whatever. Have faith for next week.

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Chill Hard Way, Tyler explained the GVARS shit and apparently changing anything at all is basically impossible without a patch. Makes no sense to me that they would program it this way but whatever. Have faith for next week.

Next week? That soon?

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