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CyReN

Halo Championship Series 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I support removing fathom flag, but getting rid of fathom flag and leaving Empire SH? Doesn't make sense.

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maybe I'm wrong, but i can't imagine that any viewer would be so confused by a particular map having a different ruleset, that they wouldnt watch.

They don't really have an excuse when at least one map has a different weapon layout for Slayer vs Objective.

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For the love of fuck..... Fathom flag would be fine with 10 second respawns. It's the need for 3 rounds of slaying and the easy AF OEs that make it shit.

 

Honestly i am super happy we are getting new gametypes and maps in the rotation (hopefuly they dont suck right) and i suppose they need to remove some old ones so the pool is not too big. There isnt many currert gametypes i would not want to swap if given the option. I am now speaking from pure spectator point of view.

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They don't really have an excuse when at least one map has a different weapon layout for Slayer vs Objective.

They show the different weapons and locations in the opening clips around the map.

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Honestly i am super happy we are getting new gametypes and maps in the rotation (hopefuly they dont suck right) and i suppose they need to remove some old ones so the pool is not too big. There isnt many currert gametypes i would not want to swap if given the option. I am now speaking from pure spectator point of view.

 

Yeah thats fine and if they replace fathom flag with sanc flag i would be totally ok with that, its just so incredibly frustrating that we are 2.5 years on now and they STILL have not implemented differential respawn times based on gametype.

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I've always liked Fathom CTF when playing, but can see why viewers may not like it.

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I love Fathom Flag and don't think it should HAVE to be replaced to add room for Sanc. After this much time in Halo 5 with no new content in HCS, we should not have to remove maps in order to add new ones. We desperately need variety in the rotation.

 

Also, contrary to what is generally seen on this forum, many people like flag standoffs and the more methodical style of play they force, it is a welcome change from the constant flying which normally characterizes Halo 5. It is ok for ONE map to have a lot of standoffs in the rotation. It is intense to play through and the better team wins regardless. Plus, lengthening spawn times to 10 would alleviate this anyway.

 

I definitely don't mind standoff situation. they are incredibly tense and exciting. what I don't like about fathom is the amount of replays that come out of the game type. what was the record? 3 replays? that isn't fun

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The overtime rules truly baffle me.  Maybe there's some magic insight as to why the overtime rules as they are are actually good that I don't understand, but to me they have been genuinely bad since launch.  A simple change to next point wins seems to me like it would fix all the problems associated with those rules.  Slayer: next kill wins, CTF: next capture wins.  Is there something wrong with that format that I just don't realize?

 

Edit:  If I had to guess it's due to 343's very strong desire to make tournament settings identical to matchmaking.  In a tournament it wouldn't be a disaster to have a flag standoff for an extra 10 minutes, but adding 10 minutes to an already drawn out matchmaking CTF game is probably out of the question for their design goals.  Therefore, they have to design the overtime rules around what works in online matchmaking and then force those rules into tournament play so both matchmaking and tournaments have the same rule set.

 

Edit Edit: I, personally, think that's a poor design philosophy that clearly leads to sub-optimal tournament rule sets.

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If I had access to the map overhead for Fathom @ Columbus or Seattle I would have loved to have broken it down a lot more in detail, but due to the amount of lanes & over extension routes for defenders spawning outside of the base during a flag pull/run, you have to make cut-offs perfectly happen otherwise a return/counter pull comes in and leads to stalemates.

 

It's very low % that a team makes all the cutoffs without at least 1-2 spawners getting through which makes it a very frustrating map to play at a high level. Most flag caps came from 3-4 downs which don't often happen at a high level; at least, not without significant casualties for the offence.

 

I'm working on a vid right now on this. Ran the numbers on Fathom flag. It's not just that there's a lot of standoffs. There's actually FEWER standoffs per match. It's more about the length of standoffs combined with their low "success" rate. It's the futility that's frustrating. Crazy, prolonged, intense battles resulting in...neither team scoring. That's the big problem right now.

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I'm working on a vid right now on this. Ran the numbers on Fathom flag. It's not just that there's a lot of standoffs. There's actually FEWER standoffs per match. It's more about the length of standoffs combined with their low "success" rate. It's the futility that's frustrating. Crazy, prolonged, intense battles resulting in...neither team scoring. That's the big problem right now.

 

This. So much this. Spend 5 minutes babying a flag standoff just to end up with a double return because the timing has to be perfect to push in without leaving room for the other team to OE and trade it off.

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Fathom is quite literally just too wide, and not long enough for our current respwan timers.

 

To me, simply replacing it entirely with a Forge map that may play terribly in Halo 5's sandbox seems like a completely lazy and haphazard decision.

 

Longer CTF respawns or better on-map items are a more pragmatic fix...

 

 

They don't really have an excuse when at least one map has a different weapon layout for Slayer vs Objective.

 

And yet they don't design new layouts for Oddball and instead just slap the gametype on the Slayer layouts and call it a day.

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Fathom flag is my favorite gametype next to coli flag. The only reason people don't like it because 3 years later and the overtime rules are still shit.

I always thought fathom flag was stupid because the enemy can spawn at the 50 Yard line in the middle of their flag being run, sprint to the base, and there are no sight lines to do anything about it.

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Fathom flag is my favorite gametype next to coli flag. The only reason people don't like it because 3 years later and the overtime rules are still shit.

 

Is it actually not possible to set longer, sudden death overtime rules for custom games?  

 

I always thought fathom flag was stupid because the enemy can spawn at the 50 Yard line in the middle of their flag being run, sprint to the base, and there are no sight lines to do anything about it.

 

Exactly.  Just one example, right now lets say they have total map control and spawn kill me in the base then start a run through sub, i'm probably going to spawn my silo and be able to immediately OE to their big door and catch the flag runner approaching the courtyard before he gets to their porch.  If i can't kill him, i can certainly nade there and delay the run while the rest of my team spawns up.  If i get delayed by just 2 seconds longer via a 10 second respawn, that flag runner is able to at least get safely to their porch or through the window.

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Wait, are they really considering putting in Sanctuary again?

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Would actually turn off the stream for a bit or at the very least tab out when fathom ctf was on. I don't think it will be a map/gametype combination that is remebered years from now, well... at least not for the right reasons.

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Would actually turn off the stream for a bit or at the very least tab out when fathom ctf was on. I don't think it will be a map/gametype combination that is remebered years from now, well... at least not for the right reasons.

Of course it’ll be remembered. You’d remember any game you played for 20 years straight.
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