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Halo Championship Series 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I'm normally pretty pessimistic and usually don't get my hopes up with a lot of things, but with 343 willing to make competitive settings that remove Ground Pound and Spartan Charge from the settings the "core" playlist in Halo 5 while also proposing having Team Hardcore as the sole ranked playlist for H2 MCC with H3 also having its hardcore playlist...my hopes are starting to rise regarding 343 providing a decent competitive experience for Halo players with Infinite.

 

Yes, H5 has a much lower population now and that probably has lot to do with this, but the fact that 343 is willing to do this at all, on top of the proposal for MCC, seems leaps and bounds above not having a ranked competitive playlist with the launch of H4 or having radar + AR starts in the "competitive" playlist for H5.

 

I still don't have my hopes up for Infinite to be a classic Halo experience, I'm not falling into that trap, but I'm at least a little more optimistic about 343 "getting it" when it comes to the competitive side of whatever their game is. While I really want a classic Halo, I still think that if it weren't for heavy aim and with a bit stronger map pool H5 could be considered a decent competitive shooter, even if it's not a good Halo shooter, and I look forward to seeing what 343 does with the next title.

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Salaries probably need to drop back down to a reasonable price, or Halo players need to create their own team brands going into the next game.

We're seriously thinking about the latter.

 

 

Also, the longer things look better, the more appealing it will become again.

Did the prize money being so high play a role in the salary increase?

 

I don't know how teams contracts work but I do know that a lot of orgs get a percentage of prize money. With it being so high in Halo is there a possibility orgs saw a good investment even when the interest and viewership in the game was average/below?

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Did the prize money being so high play a role in the salary increase?

 

I don't know how teams contracts work but I do know that a lot of orgs get a percentage of prize money. With it being so high in Halo is there a possibility orgs saw a good investment even when the interest and viewership in the game was average/below?

That's exactly what it was.

 

Most orgs take 10-15%

 

and interest and viewership the first year of H5 great, really only LoL, CS, DotA, and CoD were outperforming it on average.

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@@Mikwen do you think going back to an older Halo would be best for Halo at this point or should 343 keep pushing H5?

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We already have these tournaments planned for H5, I think MCC would be smart to revisit after this season, but it's hard to say.

 

I think HCS should hit a total restart and have the first two years of Halo:Infinite planned and announced before the game even releases.

Agreed.

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We already have these tournaments planned for H5, I think MCC would be smart to revisit after this season, but it's hard to say.

 

I think HCS should hit a total restart and have the first two years of Halo:Infinite planned and announced before the game even releases.

I think a lot of people would agree with that. I'd honestly watch anything other than H4 over H5 right now. I already pretty much exclusively play MCC when it comes to Halo but I'm not really sure how common that is outside of the people in the flights. The good news is that it does look A LOT better than the public version of MCC so if we do go down that route after this season there's probably a pretty solid game to swap over to

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Personally I think most people I know or whose comments I have read are itching to go back to MCC whenever 343 get around to fixing it. Neighbor streaming MCC as much as he has been recently has really given me a desire to see some competitive h3 again. Im sure with extra effort on HCS team's part they could host H5/H3/H2/H1 events together to at least gauge interest without committing fully to MCC events. The longer H5 HCS exists the more I've grown to dislike it and watching the old competitive halo games again would be something im sure a lot of people would enjoy and have a new appreciation of.

 

But then again when has 343 ever done anything in a timely manner? We'll still be waiting for HCS MCC news this time next year most likely.

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I'll tell you right now this part hardly affect their decision making in a team. Team stability matters to some orgs, but overall they're competitive too and want the best team possible to bring trophies to the organization, it's a good selling point for them to investors/sponsorships.

 

Orgs go for 3 things usually.

 

Viewership, Quality of Tournaments, Quality of Game(s)

 

If they enjoy the game they're in, they'll take the hit.

 

If the tournaments are good there's potential in growth.

 

Sponsors pay them for viewership numbers on tournament streams far more than they do individual players wearing their headphones on a twitch stream. Which was a huge issue because half of Halo 5 we weren't allowed to wear our SPONSORED headphones on stage, because ESL wouldn't allow us to wear anything but Astros.

 

Now if a player built his own brand and had that following would that help? Sure, but it comes down to the actual HCS at a certain point. Look at so many games Halo still actually out performs, for the most part, that has good organizations in it still.

 

Also it doesn't help salaries got inflated about 125% from H2A with the first worlds and put orgs in shit spots early on. 

 

 

For transparency, I went from 750 a month in H2A, to 1500 a month in H5, and that slowly climbed to about 2000 a month. 

 

Things went in the right direction, it was just too late for orgs cause they have the taste of shit down their throats.

I don't really think we disagreed on much here, and you've hit on a few points I've brought up multiple times (and why I said that pro players are the least to blame but have to share some of it).

 

As I said, pro player's hold the least blame of the 3 major players in building the scene because there is so much of it that is out of your hands, but pros have hardly been saints when it comes to dealing with orgs or growing the scene. I've sat in streams where players aren't wearing sponsor headsets (No matter how little you think that matters, they actually do care because its the easiest thing in the world to do), players are talking about skipping online tournaments right after they were picked up, and players badmouthing orgs on stream.

 

The main issue with everything is the HCS/343 side of things. The entire HCS for Halo 5 (outside of the first 6 months for the tournaments) has been run poorly but 343 has completely missed the boat on just basic org relations in general. 343 even failed on the level of even getting skins into the game in a timely manner when that is just considered a no brainer for any other game this size. I know for a fact that at least one large org left Halo because they had absolutely no contact with 343 when everything was going to shit. We have it on the public record that 343 blew off a meeting with EUnited as to what they could do for them if they entered the scene, as well as multiple pro teams blowing them off:

 

21Schu6.png

 

And then the whole ESL thing, but that's just too many disasters to chronicle. HCS is just going to have to somehow maintain until they get to Infinite, where they better have a plan otherwise I don't really know what all this was for.

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I don't really think we disagreed on much here, and you've hit on a few points I've brought up multiple times (and why I said that pro players are the least to blame but have to share some of it).

 

As I said, pro player's hold the least blame of the 3 major players in building the scene because there is so much of it that is out of your hands, but pros have hardly been saints when it comes to dealing with orgs or growing the scene. I've sat in streams where players aren't wearing sponsor headsets (No matter how little you think that matters, they actually do care because its the easiest thing in the world to do), players are talking about skipping online tournaments right after they were picked up, and players badmouthing orgs on stream.

 

The main issue with everything is the HCS/343 side of things. The entire HCS for Halo 5 (outside of the first 6 months for the tournaments) has been run poorly but 343 has completely missed the boat on just basic org relations in general. 343 even failed on the level of even getting skins into the game in a timely manner when that is just considered a no brainer for any other game this size. I know for a fact that at least one large org left Halo because they had absolutely no contact with 343 when everything was going to shit. We have it on the public record that 343 blew off a meeting with EUnited as to what they could do for them if they entered the scene, as well as multiple pro teams blowing them off:

 

21Schu6.png

 

And then the whole ESL thing, but that's just too many disasters to chronicle. HCS is just going to have to somehow maintain until they get to Infinite, where they better have a plan otherwise I don't really know what all this was for.

Yeah pro players definitely have some blame, but there's also players who do really well within the space, but you're always judged off the bad eggs.

 

Sucks about EUnited too because I hit them up and would really like to represent their brand, but I completely understand why they don't want to be in Halo. I understand why organizations don't want to be involved.

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Doesn't matter how few orgs we have in the scene, still can't escape the shadiness.

 

https://twitter.com/PrototypeMEM/status/1006391119863693313

Feel for them because that is incredibly shitty (especially seeing as Zeke and Ryan have now had multiple teams not pay them in recent memory) but I don't really know what you can expect with that org.

 

Oxygen Supremacy goes under because they can't afford to pay the players and then miraculously comes back right before a $1 million dollar tournament, only to shade the players that they couldn't afford to pay previously. Probably should have seen that one coming.

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For transparency, I went from 750 a month in H2A, to 1500 a month in H5, and that slowly climbed to about 2000 a month. 

 

Enigma 6 time bomb

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I would love to see a season of H2/H3 in the HCS.  Even if it's online only.

I'd pass on H3 online lol. Hit detection needs to be fixed

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We already have these tournaments planned for H5, I think MCC would be smart to revisit after this season, but it's hard to say.

 

I think HCS should hit a total restart and have the first two years of Halo:Infinite planned and announced before the game even releases.

 

Mikwen with the H2A sniper  :walshy:

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I'd pass on H3 online lol. Hit detection needs to be fixed

 

I agree with you, because H3 on MCC is pretty much unplayable for me as is.

 

 

That being said, the amount of improvement for hit reg in the most recent flight of the insider build for H3 can't be understated. It's like a completely different game, I can't wait until MCC is fixed.

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Salaries probably need to drop back down to a reasonable price, or Halo players need to create their own team brands going into the next game.

We're seriously thinking about the latter.

 

 

Also, the longer things look better, the more appealing it will become again.

 

Should restart the old H2/H3 teams since they're so iconic and a lot of viewers who stopped watching would immediately relate to. Since were back with MLG whats the deal with names like Carbon/Final Boss/Status Quo/Classic/Warriors etc? Could pull a T2 and build an actual brand behind it.

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I agree with you, because H3 on MCC is pretty much unplayable for me as is.

 

 

That being said, the amount of improvement for hit reg in the most recent flight of the insider build for H3 can't be understated. It's like a completely different game, I can't wait until MCC is fixed.

Keywords here: “insider build”. Hit detection being good on an insider build has exactly the same inherent disclaimer as game ads with, “Images shown might not reflect actual gameplay” plastered all over the bottom. H3 is a bad game online. Unless they change it to non-random bursts/hitscan, it will never be good online. The logistics of online gaming, holistically, simply aren’t compatible with the netcode without those changes.

 

I would love to see Halo blow up again. But it won’t happen like this. Nostalgia only takes you so far. CoD WW2 for example. “Oh it’s boots on the ground, it’s gonna be awesome!” Within’ six months it makes the most successful competitive CoD roster disband. :kappa:

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Keywords here: “insider build”. Hit detection being good on an insider build has exactly the same inherent disclaimer as game ads with, “Images shown might not reflect actual gameplay” plastered all over the bottom. H3 is a bad game online. Unless they change it to non-random bursts/hitscan, it will never be good online. The logistics of online gaming, holistically, simply aren’t compatible with the netcode without those changes.

 

I would love to see Halo blow up again. But it won’t happen like this. Nostalgia only takes you so far. CoD WW2 for example. “Oh it’s boots on the ground, it’s gonna be awesome!” Within’ six months it makes the most successful competitive CoD roster disband. :kappa:

 

The fact it is an insider build almost lends more credence to the improvements that have been made rather than add a side note saying "it will probably be worse when the public version is out there". It's really not fair to compare the old H3 hit detection to this one at all. It has vastly improved netcode with dedicated servers and felt amazing with what was probably one small set of servers (likely in Seattle which is 3500 miles away from me) for 2500 people all around the globe. Despite still having random spread and projectile ballistics, it was definitely as consistent as almost any online halo experience I've had, with MCC especially. 

 

It's 2018. It's probably time to recognize that there are games out there with ballistics far more complicated than H3 that work just fine online. If these netcode improvements continue, there is no reason playing H3 online wouldn't be competitively viable, especially without a host advantage.

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$2000/mo is lower than I thought it'd be, I honestly thought some of the bigger orgs would at least be paying 4 or 5k/mo.

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Should restart the old H2/H3 teams since they're so iconic and a lot of viewers who stopped watching would immediately relate to. Since were back with MLG whats the deal with names like Carbon/Final Boss/Status Quo/Classic/Warriors etc? Could pull a T2 and build an actual brand behind it.

 

T2 kept control of the Str8 brand over all those years, that's the difference between Str8 and the teams you listed. It'd be nice to see some older teams come back though.

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