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Halo Championship Series 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I don't know what I've been reading but it definitely doesn't make sense. 

 

A projectile sniper? For an arena shooter. That just doesn't make any sense, all it would do in the arena context is make hit reg worse. It certainly wouldn't balance the sniper for PC use. And removing the reticle for hip fire (saw someone say this would only be on PC, which is arguably even worse) would completely redefine what a power weapon in Halo is.

 

Halo has always worked best when the bullets go where you're aiming when you pull the trigger. That may sound a little broad to some people, but everyone here who has ever argued against bloom, autos, bad bullet magnetism, and bad projectile registration has agreed with that statement in a roundabout way.

 

And as shocking as it may sound, classic Halo works ridiculously well on mouse and keyboard. Halo PC and CE, Halo 2 Project Cartographer, and El Dewrito are all out there right now for people to try if they feel uncomfortable about that (H5 Forge exists too, but there are mouse and keyboard issues with that game that are unrelated to gameplay design). Those all play very well and feel like classic Halo with no changes to weapon balancing.

 

Don't go advocating for classic Halo only to say that things need to be changed to adjust for PC play. If MCC does make it to PC, Infinite would be the 6th major Halo release on PC. It's never required any adjustments before, it certainly wouldn't if it goes back to a classic formula.

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honestly i think gears and cod have shown that there is a market for console games. even if they aren't the largest scenes, they do well for themselves. there is a market for console esports and it's ok for halo to be a part of that. before the dreamhack flops, halo fall finals in 2016 peaked around 50k for autos and radar. there are people who want to watch but they need a compelling game that delivers on the core halo experience. i think that is much more important than just switching to pc

 

 

Halo Infinite will almost certainly release (a couple tweets were ambiguous, but ...) on both Windows 10 and XB1, so basically we'll have a natural experiment in terms of popularity.  

 

I don't see Halo becoming bigger on PC than console without an unprecedented increase in popularity; it would need to pull players from PUBG, Fort, CS:GO, etc., on a consistent basis and I'm just not sure that will happen.  Halo sells millions of copies on console and I think the key player base is still there, despite the lack of interest in XB1 generally.  I figure there will be a healthy custom game scene on PC but Microsoft is primarily interested in selling its flagship console, so the HCS and most of their focus will almost certainly be on console.  

 

Halo could easily be 2x bigger than Gears and somewhat bigger than CoD if Halo Infinite is actually good, despite the fact that the XB1 is not the greatest console

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Been noticing this with a lot of games I've been playing recently where developers take the skill ceilings of good games and drag them right down to the ground. It's actually pathetic how much developers cater to bad playes.

And just woke up to find out they fucked it up even more. Haha

 

Time to knock the Halo rust off

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If you look at competitive shooters on PC they all have ways of accounting for the accuracy of the mouse.

 

- Fast movement/high mobility

- Main weapons are slow projectiles (such as rocket launchers)

- Reticule sway for sniper style weapons.

- Recoil patterns

 

These are often combined together as well.

 

 

Halo is a slow shooter dominated by powerful precision weapons.

 

You can make all the weapons projectile based but with Halo's slow movement and small maps that's not going to have much of a significant effect.

 

The game won't be completely broken on PC but at a competitive level it will play very differently.

 

 

 

Edit: Also, the biggest issue with regards to the sniper when switching to kb/m is that at close range it would be no less viable than any other weapon in the sandbox. Making it a projectile weapon certainly wouldn't help with that. Removing the reticule might help somewhat but it won't hinder a semi decent player all that much.

I guess that's kind of the point.  The meta will undoubtedly be different, but balanced weapons are balanced weapons.  We really don't need to do anything special to make it ready for PC.  We just need to do what should have been done for the last 3 games.  Reducing AA and bullet magnetism to actual reasonable levels which will help the console game and properly implement projectiles.  Turn off AA and bullet magnetism for PC players and there is no issue...

 

The issue with the sniper at close range is alleviated with a properly strong utility, proper sniper fire rate and head hitboxes that aren't the size of Jupiter.  Especially the last one. If you're strafing close range against a sniper with no aim assist that can fire twice a second and he hits 2 shots on you or blains you... you should be ok with dying there.  If its the Halo 5 sniper well... there is no way to balance the H5 sniper on PC other than to totally fuck up the aiming.

 

I really think a lot of people see some of these miraculous shots that PC players make and think that is the norm.  Its really not.  There are lots of missed shots and lots of chokes.  Searching youtube for {Insert esport title here} Chokes is kind of enlightening really lol.  Making changes that are good for console as far as movement and weapon design are concerned will ready the game for PC too.  They just need to stop the hand-holdy nonsense.

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I guess that's kind of the point.  The meta will undoubtedly be different, but balanced weapons are balanced weapons.  We really don't need to do anything special to make it ready for PC.  We just need to do what should have been done for the last 3 games.  Reducing AA and bullet magnetism to actual reasonable levels which will help the console game and properly implement projectiles.  Turn off AA and bullet magnetism for PC players and there is no issue...

 

The issue with the sniper at close range is alleviated with a properly strong utility, proper sniper fire rate and head hitboxes that aren't the size of Jupiter.  Especially the last one. If you're strafing close range against a sniper with no aim assist that can fire twice a second and he hits 2 shots on you or blains you... you should be ok with dying there.  If its the Halo 5 sniper well... there is no way to balance the H5 sniper on PC other than to totally fuck up the aiming.

 

I really think a lot of people see some of these miraculous shots that PC players make and think that is the norm.  Its really not.  There are lots of missed shots and lots of chokes.  Searching youtube for {Insert esport title here} Chokes is kind of enlightening really lol.  Making changes that are good for console as far as movement and weapon design are concerned will ready the game for PC too.  They just need to stop the hand-holdy nonsense.

Now consider needing to land 3-5 shots with that same sniper in every battle and we have how every utility weapon fight would turn out.

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honestly i think gears and cod have shown that there is a market for console games. even if they aren't the largest scenes, they do well for themselves. there is a market for console esports and it's ok for halo to be a part of that. before the dreamhack flops, halo fall finals in 2016 peaked around 50k for autos and radar. there are people who want to watch but they need a compelling game that delivers on the core halo experience. i think that is much more important than just switching to pc

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Halo having a competitive scene on console, I mean it already has a dedicated player base and audience, moreso if they actually returned the game to its roots and gave people a reason to get re-invested in the series. This is great and would only serve as a positive for the scene and the franchise, however what is important about PC gaming is that it opens up Halo in terms of accessibility, something which has been pivotal in almost all of the top esports successes.

 

League, DOTA, CSGO, Fortnite, Overwatch etc the list goes on, you NEED as few obstacles as humanly possible to get from seeing something to actually sitting down and playing the game. Whether this is platform (obviously PC is huge when you consider the mediums people consume esports media through), monitory investment, setup time - ease of access is so incredibly important.

 

What you find with a lot of these popular games is that spikes of popularity are followed by more popularity. Break through moments on reddit, twitter, instagram are seen as a byproduct of rising popularity when in actuality they're feeding into the loop. How many front page posts on reddit for gaming have an explanation of the clip for people not familiar with the game, how many kids see Ninja do something absolutely mind bending on Fortnite for the first time on instagram or twitter. When there are little to no barriers to access you turn that fleeting first time audience very quickly into part of your population. It happened with CSGO, it happened with Overwatch, it continues to happen with R6 and Fortnite so there's nothing to say it couldn't happen with Halo. Easy PC access is a big part of that.

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Damn, NOLA was such a good event. Trifecta really showed up, and showed what that team can do, I think theyre a solid top 4 or even top 3 contender next event if they keep grinding. Rayne and Ryanoob are soooo good and soooo underrated, Musa brings them to the next level for sure. Nola also felt like the first even where predictions from everyone were totally off, games just went totally different than anyone thought.

 

I could possible see pistola dropped for neptune, that squad would be a powerhouse, and a true contender to win.

 

If we saw Mikwen to trifecta, with Musa/Ryanoob/Rayne, that squad would also be quite crazy.

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If we saw Mikwen to trifecta, with Musa/Ryanoob/Rayne, that squad would also be quite crazy.

Dropping Shooter when he's Trifecta's best player? Why?

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Dropping Shooter when he's Trifecta's best player? Why?

 

I feel like Mikwen is just a better version of shooter, the other 3 play their roles quite well. Maybe Mikwen for Musa??? But honestly trifecta is fine the way they are

 

OT: Faze Censor dumped Yanet Garcia "to focus more on CoD" LMFAO

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Dropping Shooter when he's Trifecta's best player? Why?

 

Marriage planning is a bitch.

 

JK

 

A lot goes into the behind the scenes motivation for these decisions

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Microsoft has talked about multiple times how they are going to bring official Keyboard and Mouse support to the Xbox. It wouldn't shock me if the competitive scene for Halo ends up being played with a keyboard and mouse in a few years. It is just a better showcase of skill for a FPS. 

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I don't know what I've been reading but it definitely doesn't make sense.

 

A projectile sniper? For an arena shooter. That just doesn't make any sense, all it would do in the arena context is make hit reg worse. It certainly wouldn't balance the sniper for PC use. And removing the reticle for hip fire (saw someone say this would only be on PC, which is arguably even worse) would completely redefine what a power weapon in Halo is.

 

Halo has always worked best when the bullets go where you're aiming when you pull the trigger. That may sound a little broad to some people, but everyone here who has ever argued against bloom, autos, bad bullet magnetism, and bad projectile registration has agreed with that statement in a roundabout way.

 

And as shocking as it may sound, classic Halo works ridiculously well on mouse and keyboard. Halo PC and CE, Halo 2 Project Cartographer, and El Dewrito are all out there right now for people to try if they feel uncomfortable about that (H5 Forge exists too, but there are mouse and keyboard issues with that game that are unrelated to gameplay design). Those all play very well and feel like classic Halo with no changes to weapon balancing.

 

Don't go advocating for classic Halo only to say that things need to be changed to adjust for PC play. If MCC does make it to PC, Infinite would be the 6th major Halo release on PC. It's never required any adjustments before, it certainly wouldn't if it goes back to a classic formula.

CE and 3 both had projectile snipers and worked just fine. People continue to conflate projectile weaponry with poor hit registration- there is no cause effect relationship here.

 

Projectile weapons send bullets exactly where you aim them- they just take more than 0s to get there.

 

Poor hit registration is an issue that crops up when the game doesn’t realize that a bullet and a player are occupying the same space at the same time. This is a problem that can effect any weapon, regardless of the bullet travel method. Its a function of netcode. In 2018 , with the proliferation of broadband and the advancement of prediction tech, there’s no excuse for not being able to have decent netcode with a projectile based weapon system.

 

I’m not sure where you get the idea that projectile precision weapons are worse in an arena context... Arena shooters in general lean on projectile weapons- especially on PC.

 

Removing a reticle wouldn’t ‘redefine what a powerweapon is’. That’s a hyperbolic argument with no basis. What it would do is replicate the difficulty of using a sniper outside of its intended range despite the mouse giving PC users a precision boost over the console counterpart.

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The competition is where the majority of the playerbase is. I don't see Halo becoming so popular on PC compared to console that the HCS will shift platforms.

 

 

Could be good timing competition wise for Halo 6 on PC if it releases 2019/early 2020.OW will still prob be king but the initial sheen of tournament play will be gone, CS is the walking zombie that takes a shotgun blast or two to its chest but keeps on dredging forward, QC who knows sure there will be a scene but who knows to what level, but what else in terms of a FPS will it be competing with? ect. Those games already have dedicated fan-bases, there really isnt a  popular game on PC that would compete for Halo's niche and style of play. 

 

Make Halo:Infinite fully modifiable and extend the hand to the PC audience let them know you mean business, do a public beta and get feedback on controls and aiming, include a custom game browser, maybe clans(cuz us PC nerds love clans) and I think it could be top 5 by the end of the year. Make the MP and campaign fully modifiable and allow players to use in-house engine map editing tools to give the game free new content and updates without having to lift a finger. Watch the dedicated, creative, modding scene on Xbox and PC that did the Halo:Online game and Halo PC campaign mods make Halo:Infinite a great game for casual and hardcore players the way Halo was supposed to be but never was allowed to be on a restricted platform controlled by a large conglomerate.

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OW will still prob be king 

 

 

I dunno man, I've been very surprised by how little cultural impact Overwatch has had.  their viewership has been steadily decreasing and I really hear nothing about their events on the usual sites (Reddit, Kotaku etc etc)

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I enjoy watching these, greatly, but I still get internally miffed when people cheer from a multikill with a sniper, and then 6 seconds later you have a great gunfight involving a comeback despite choking, and no one but the casters seem engaged by it. Pump up the good gunplay, people. Or, don't. That's fine, too.

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Falcated was playing great. That clutch double in blue game 5 against Trifecta was sick. They all 4 collapsed on him and his aim stayed smooth as silk

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I dunno man, I've been very surprised by how little cultural impact Overwatch has had. their viewership has been steadily decreasing and I really hear nothing about their events on the usual sites (Reddit, Kotaku etc etc)

Overwatch is the most forced meme esport on the market. An awful viewing experience that's propped up by hubristic investors. Whole thing will fizzle out in a few years.

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I wasted so much money on Overwatch. Bought it, played it maybe 3 or 4 times and never played it again.

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I dunno man, I've been very surprised by how little cultural impact Overwatch has had.  their viewership has been steadily decreasing and I really hear nothing about their events on the usual sites (Reddit, Kotaku etc etc)

 

Doesn't help that the OWL is 100% no fun allowed. I remember them getting mad a player on Twitter because he posting a freaking pepe meme. Blizzard in general are on this whole crusade against "toxicity" in games. Whatever that even means anymore.

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Ninjas squad last night included Vic X. He's alive! :apg:

 

For all the shit ninja gets, he includes A LOT of old halo pros on his stream, when he has zero obligation to do so. He also promotes the shit out of people he plays with, the guy is doing it all the right way, I dig it.

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