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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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this community sometimes smh

 

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how is this thread gonna devolve into personal insults on a guy who is advocating for better maps for the first major change in a long while? if we go into civil war mode every off season, there wont be a community for competitive halo before long

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Those 80% are also the ones that can't understand this simple concept:

 

 

 

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Sometimes I hate driving so fucking much lol.

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Still have yet to hear an actual debate on the maps in question. Just more personal insults on a persons character. Mob mentality is real here.

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Still have yet to hear an actual debate on the maps in question. Just more personal insults on a persons character. Mob mentality is real here.

 

That might have to do with the fact that the maps themselves have only been in the pool for 2 days and aren't in MM so they require 8 mans to actually test.

 

Total mob mentality though.

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That might have to do with the fact that the maps themselves have only been in the pool for 2 days and aren't in MM so they require 8 mans to actually test.

 

Total mob mentality though.

So you disagree that the maps are bad. Ok why? Have you played them? I’m interested in discussing hcs and the future of halo/competitive games. But continue on with shitting on a guy you don’t know for saying mean things about a map, whatever floats your boat.

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So you disagree that the maps are bad. 

Where did I say this?

 

Ok why? Have you played them? 

No I haven't played them, for the exact reasons I actually said in my post above.

 

I’m interested in discussing hcs and the future of halo/competitive games. 

So is everyone else here. That's why they are in a competitive Halo forum. There is just no easy way for most people to actually test any changes and nothing else major has been announced to actually discuss.

 

But continue on with shitting on a guy you don’t know for saying mean things about a map, whatever floats your boat.

I didn't know I had to personally know Multi to have the right to "shit on him", and nothing I said about him had anything to do with the maps being added. Mainly because I don't know anything about them and never claimed to.

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Still have yet to hear an actual debate on the maps in question.

 

We'll start with Fissure, the symmetric Guardian lookin' map.

 

Ever played 2Fort in Team Fortress? Two bases completely separated from each other, with a huge and open middle ground with a super cramped sneak path underneath?

 

That's what this map is. The bases are huge, each covering a third of the playable space, along with funneling players with very linear three-lane entry/exit paths. You have to go through that huge open middle just to traverse over to the enemy base, because the sneak path houses loud-as-fuck lifts that shoot you up in the air across the map like moron missiles. And guess what? You're fuckin' dead in less than a second because there are sightlines everywhere in the middle, so the only option you have is to play the map like Narrows and push all at once.

 

Slayer is atrocious. Flag would be more of a snorefest than Fathom. Oddball? Pff, what, I'm gonna camp in a huge-ass base and call out every player I see, because each base is literally Rat Race Junior. Yippee.

 

Echelon...ohhhhh Echelon...

 

Imagine The Rig's design for a minute. Very boxy, sharp corners and plenty of hide-y spots. A big jungle gym for your powerful Spartans to "feel like super soldiers".

 

Now imagine if The Rig was larger, had more convoluted pathing, had cool little gimmicks like a Pelican and a moving piston straight outta Torque. Imagine if you tried making a counter against a counter against a counter, until your map is nothing but campy choke points. Does that sound like a map that would be good for high level play?

 

Oh, and let's not forget, they want to play Oddball on these maps. Fissure is a Flag map, and Echelon is Strongholds.

 

Tripe.

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Where did I say this?

 

 

No I haven't played them, for the exact reasons I actually said in my post above.

 

 

So is everyone else here. That's why they are in a competitive Halo forum. There is just no easy way for most people to actually test any changes and nothing else major has been announced to actually discuss.

 

 

I didn't know I had to personally know Multi to have the right to "shit on him", and nothing I said about him had anything to do with the maps being added. Mainly because I don't know anything about them and never claimed to.

So you’re telling me it doesn’t matter if he’s potentially right about the quality of the maps. You just jumped in because?.....

 

I’m sorry but what’s your point? The whole thing started because he posted his displeasure about the upcoming maps. No one debated him, they just brought up the fact that he’s making a video game and that apparently means he can’t critique anything ever because “gasp” what if his game has problems

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We'll start with Fissure, the symmetric Guardian lookin' map.

 

Ever played 2Fort in Team Fortress? Two bases completely separated from each other, with a huge and open middle ground with a super cramped sneak path underneath?

 

That's what this map is. The bases are huge, each covering a third of the playable space, along with funneling players with very linear three-lane entry/exit paths. You have to go through that huge open middle just to traverse over to the enemy base, because the sneak path houses loud-as-fuck lifts that shoot you up in the air across the map like moron missiles. And guess what? You're fuckin' dead in less than a second because there are sightlines everywhere in the middle, so the only option you have is to play the map like Narrows and push all at once.

 

Slayer is atrocious. Flag would be more of a snorefest than Fathom. Oddball? Pff, what, I'm gonna camp in a huge-ass base and call out every player I see, because each base is literally Rat Race Junior. Yippee.

 

Echelon...ohhhhh Echelon...

 

Imagine The Rig's design for a minute. Very boxy, sharp corners and plenty of hide-y spots. A big jungle gym for your powerful Spartans to "feel like super soldiers".

 

Now imagine if The Rig was larger, had more convoluted pathing, had cool little gimmicks like a Pelican and a moving piston straight outta Torque. Imagine if you tried making a counter against a counter against a counter, until your map is nothing but campy choke points. Does that sound like a map that would be good for high level play?

 

Oh, and let's not forget, they want to play Oddball on these maps. Fissure is a Flag map, and Echelon is Strongholds.

 

Tripe.

Thanks for the overview. What’s the status on H5 oddball anyway. Been a while since I played the game, can you still throw it? If so oddball can never really work tbh.
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Where can I find some high level gameplay analysis? I know ryanoob used to do his reviews but he hasn’t done them in a while. Shy has some vids too but it’s not enough.

 

I think I may have to be the change I want to see and start a YouTube series with some practical info on getting better. I’m only diamond 5 in hcs but I think I can give good advice to lower players. One idea I have is a series called something like “where to look” that describes places you should look when pushing particular areas. For example you push snipe tower via blue sneaky on Coli u should be looking red ramp, red sneaky, etc.

 

Another series Idea is one called “good nades” where I talk about good grenades to throw. For example throwing that nade to s3 above the opposing teams dmr on the Coli. Or maybe nading blue plat on eden strongholds to stop the opposing team from spawning there.

 

Give me some feedback. Shit on my idea if u like I have thick skin.

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What’s the status on H5 oddball anyway.

The Skull now has an anti spawn zone built into it, which keeps enemies from spawning too close. When you're holding the ball, you move slower and have no Abilities besides Clamber.

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Man the rent is just too damn high lately.

What’s the rent like on a Halo ring? I’m trying to get out of Oklahoma

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Towards Multi's post, I'm concerned with being able to maintain a playerbase not necessarily because of quality but because of it just being difficult in general, but I wish him nothing but the best.

 

I will say one thing about his design philosophy though, getting players to look up is one of the hardest things you can do and games "feeling right" is one of the most important things you can have. I've heard many interviews from designers of puzzle games, shooters, and many other genres that talk about how hard it is to get a player to look up and how they'll try to make some sort of cue to make somebody look up. In Portal, one of the rooms has a box fall right in front of you so the player will look up to see where the box came from. In multiplayer shooters, the levels are flat because people aren't inclined to naturally look up so dying from people above you becomes frustrating. Perhaps he has ideas for how to train players to look up regularly, or maybe he trusts players to be able to figure it out, but it's just a word of caution.

 

On games "feeling right", I don't feel incredibly educated to make a strong opinion. But I would be hesitant to completely go against the grain. I have a book that I admittedly haven't read yet called "Game Feel", it talks a lot about controls and spatial awareness, and how games feel in general. It's an incredibly nerdy book based on flipping through it briefly. Anyway, I've heard a lot of designers that I respect talk about game feel as being one of the most important things for a game being fun. Tommy Refenes who helped design some of the systems in place for Super Meat Boy, one of the best feeling games I've ever played, said that he would never play a game that didn't feel right. Shigeru Miyamoto made it a point that Mario 64 would only continue development once the camera felt right, maybe controls and movement as well but I don't remember. Maybe Multi disagrees about the game feel the Treyarch developer suggested, but if he wanted to change the height based on skill alone and not feel, I would maybe reevaluate. Not saying he's wrong, I can only speak on my own knowledge which is admittedly almost completely based on what other developers have said, what the industry standard is, and very limited prototyping by myself. But I do think there's a reason why most "big" developers say feel is important.

 

Multi if you do come post again and see this, I would love to hear your thoughts. Maybe you agree with me on some stuff and just didn't fully explain it, maybe you disagree with me on the importance of some things I mentioned. Regardless, I wish you the best.

 

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I'm still planning on doing a writeup of my worlds experience, work has been insanely busy and I just had another trip I was taking. But I swear I still want to do a writeup and talk about the weekend, I experienced a lot of things I really appreciated, that may seem minor to some but made a big difference to me.

 

EDIT: Wow, we even have Clayster tweeting about this.

 

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Im so excited to try this game without spartan charge and ground pound. Those are the 2 things I've been wanting them to get rid of since i first started playing this game. Me and 3 or 4 of my friends all stopped playing H5 cuz of all the bullshit and we're all super pumped to try it out again. 

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I had a response written up but writing on mobile is a pain. So I’ll drop it. Just want to make things clear, when one enters any creative endeavor critique is vital. If you cant take honest criticism then it’s not cut out for you. When you start doing personal attacks, whether it’s in the classroom or in a professional space you’re automatically out. It’s not really tolerated and that’s a big reason why multi lost his opportunity in the first place.

 

If you see someone make grandiose claims just simply wait and see if they can actually back up what they say. There’s no need to mock his misfortunes or imply that he’s not liked in a sub group. Like what are you accomplishing here? It’s just so pointless and mean spirited and is not what I want to read when I’m slacking off at work.

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Meanwhile, back at the ranch....

I think we need to chill on which maps were picked until we all actually get a chance to play on them with some regularity.  I watched every stream the pros did testing out the new maps and they were all happy with how these 2 played.  They wanted ball maps, and were quite adamant about more strongholds maps, which is why these 2 were picked but Russet and the Sanc remake were left out (I asked Tashi about this after the announcement and they are working on Fathom, so they were probably reluctant to add more CTF).

My point being, take some Ritalin and calm down for a week or 2 until these maps are added into the MM rotation (they're wanting the maps finalized by the 1st of June and I'm assuming we'll see them in MM beforehand).   

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What’s the rent like on a Halo ring? I’m trying to get out of Oklahoma

yeah im tired of living in a teepee and wrestling cattle all day, boy i tell you hwat damn Arthur keeps hogging all the canned beans.

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If you see someone make grandiose claims just simply wait and see if they can actually back up what they say. 

 

I've discovered how the same people keep getting elected over and over.

 

The best part about this whole argument is that Multi dedicated more than 2000 worlds to shit on every AAA map designer in the world and has spent a large amount of time shitting on the forge community regularly. 

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yeah im tired of living in a teepee and wrestling cattle all day, boy i tell you hwat damn Arthur keeps hogging all the canned beans.

It’s hard out here

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His message is a little too heavy on the "I am your savior, please bow to me" but AAA developers and publishers are absolute shit now. I agreed with almost everything he said

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