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Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Breakout got removed because Josh Holmes "lied" and said the pros wanted it and snakebite called him out

Josh Holmes could lie all he wants, Ultimately, it got taken out because 343 decided to take it out- after backlash. If 343 would have kept it in, Players would have played it, all the way through worlds.

 

Its the speed of Halo 5 players off spawn mixed in with spawns that are just way way too close to the oddball. If you compare that to H3 where the objective was a massive spawn blocker itself its easy to see how the structured/setup based gameplay of oddball falls apart in weird ways in H5. Its what leads to people describing the gametype as random or chaotic. Basically when you're not perfectly setup/drop the ball random shit pops off. If it were easier to force a team to spawn back away from the ball it would be better but I feel like you'd need to go into forge and change every spawn on the map just for oddball to make it work in H5 short of 343 investing time and effort into reworking their spawn system

How’d it work in H3? Slayer spawns with a big spawn blocker that follows the ball?

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Josh Holmes could lie all he wants, Ultimately, it got taken out because 343 decided to take it out- after backlash. If 343 would have kept it in, Players would have played it, all the way through worlds.

 

 

How’d it work in H3? Slayer spawns with a big spawn blocker that follows the ball?

You're right, if they forced pros to play shit settings they would have to play them, good point  :thinking:
 
who does that benefit exactly?
 
You're criticizing pros for not practicing a broken gametype, that they were explicitly told they wouldn't be forced to play, and you don't even have an understanding of why it's broken, do you really have a leg to stand on? (besides “because rules”)
 
They really threw the players under the bus in the situation, the players were told one thing, another thing happened, and you're upset at them for standing up for themselves and not letting inferior competitive settings influence the outcome of a real, high stakes tournament? 
 
You can't claim you decide the gametypes based upon pro player feedback and then include one they unanimously agree isn't worthy of tournament play, it's a total farce
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I've played enough games of Ball to have a fair assessment.

 

When the enemy team has the Ball, your team will spawn as far away as possible. If your team has the Ball, you'll spawn as close as possible to the Ball holder. But this works only if the Ball is being held. If the ball is dropped for just a few seconds, the spawns are total coin flips. Your team could spawn literally anywhere, and the same goes for the enemy. This problem is worse with symmetric maps or room-based, which is why Truth and Plaza were removed respectively. Rig and Eden are open air jungle gyms, which gives the team without the Ball more of a chance to plan an ambush.

 

I'm guessing the pros hate the random factor when it comes to the Ball not being in play.

Wow, Thanks. So essentially dropping the ball to take a couple shots could instantly allow a free flank. And anytime there is no control, the game becomes completely random.

 

I imagine sandbox would have to comeback and code spawn blocking onto the ball, so it’ll be fucked until H6 probably.

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i'm curious, how do you suggest the pros take a stand against oddball?

 

give feedback? :kappa:

From @@Clap's dm post it looks like all feedback needs to go to mlg so they can work on settings with 343. This makes me think that they have someone working on official settings and if thats the case hopefully they have the ability to impact the settings in a meaningful way

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i'm curious, how do you suggest the pros take a stand against oddball?

 

give feedback? :kappa:

The same way they did against Breakout.

 

Playing by the rules, continuing to make their views heard. Coordinate and produce a survey/signed petition.

 

They’ve done this before, w/o breaking rules. It worked for Breakout, and Stasis. I imagine it will work here as well.

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What makes this Splyce roster so deadly is that they're able to dictate the tempo of the game so well and interesting part is that they might not even be aware of it. It's the same quality that makes Optic great but it's evident through their communication that they're actively focussing on making plays that will allow them to control the pace of the game.@TiberiusAudley - I don't know if this is too much to ask but do you think we could see the return of "Audley Analyzes" with a Splyce gameplay video?

 

There's approximately a 0% chance of this happening any time between now and the Super Bowl.  I've gone full millennial and am working two full time kitchen jobs.

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i'm curious, how do you suggest the pros take a stand against oddball?

 

give feedback?  :kappa:

 

Not by violating tournament rules in the very first tournament with MLG back. It's not a good look. 

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The same way they did against Breakout.

 

Playing by the rules, continuing to make their views heard. Coordinate and produce a survey/signed petition.

 

They’ve done this before, w/o breaking rules. It worked for Breakout, and Stasis. I imagine it will work here as well.

we knew on day 1 that stasis was imbalanced and they played it for TWO seasons dude, lol
 
i explained on the previous page why breakout was removed, and it wasn't because of "feedback"
 
people complained about breakout for weeks and it was only removed a day after josh holmes got caught lying* (maybe he had bad info)

 

Not by violating tournament rules in the very first tournament with MLG back. It's not a good look. 

so what's your suggestion?

 

give feedback and hope for the best? if that works then why is oddball still in the rotation...

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I'm confused how people are mad at the pros when they get in position against Oddball, but are not mad at them due to Breakout/Statis  :thinking: 

Haha whatever, if I was a Pro, I'd do the exact same thing.

Forced to play shitty gametypes, shitty maps, shitty this, shitty that over and over again? like goddammit man, no wonder Ninja left for fucking Fortnite, this game and the way things have been organized (specially the feedback from pros) is a mess. Pros are making their money, their life-style through Halo 5, and if Halo 5 is a shithole they could literally not play it if they want and find something else - BUT: they go through the trouble of giving feedback and be ignored.

I just want Paul (Snakebite) to come here and share his thoughts and frustrations, because whenever HE talks and HE shares his perspective we understand what's going on. As a matter of a fact, he was the one who told Holmes that the pros didn't vote for breakout to stay.

Anyway, crucify me if you want or argue with me or whatever. But being from Venezuela I completely understand that talking nice to the people responsible of a shithole is not gonna work all the time, you gotta be an annoyance for them to notice your frustration from time to time  :laughing:

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we knew on day 1 that stasis was imbalanced and they played it for TWO seasons dude, lol

 

i explained on the previous page why breakout was removed, and it wasn't because of "feedback"

 

people complained about breakout for weeks and it was only removed a day after josh holmes got caught lying* (maybe he had bad info)

 

so what's your suggestion?

 

give feedback and hope for the best? if that works then why is oddball still in the rotation...

Stasis is out though.

 

On what planet was breakout removal not due to feedback? The final straw publicly revealing the ACTUAL feedback and using it to counter 343s claims. Without actual feedback, there's nothing to air out.

 

To your last point, there is no guaruntee that this stunt will work. But it IS against the rules. Potentially taking penalties doesnt make sense. Neither does being unpracticed, and potentially going up against an opponent who doesn’t agree to skip it. If I'm not mistaken snakebite already said they'll play it going forward if they get word it'll stay.

 

Giving feedback has worked on two other hcs gametype issues, Even if it was slow. And no one broke any rules putting their progress at risk.

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I'll tell you what they shouldn't do: boycott a gametype in violation of the rules. That is the absolute worst route regardless of their thoughts on gametypes added on 12/22. It is objectively a rules violation and subjectively it reflects poorly on the scene and further exacerbates the communication chain. Also and most importantly now we have zero data from the pro level tournament play to assess  the setting for future tweaks. I'm sure many will respond with how important this tournament is for seeding and they 'did what they had to do' and/or they communicated issues and were not listened to...I get it, but it doesn't mean breaking the rules is the right course of action. 

i appreciate you taking the time to reply, and i totally respect what you are saying

 

hopefully the situation gets resolved and we can move forward with this awesome season we have ahead of us  :)

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people complained about breakout for weeks and it was only removed a day after josh holmes got caught lying* (maybe he had bad info)

 

so what's your suggestion?

 

give feedback and hope for the best? if that works then why is oddball still in the rotation...

Pros still practiced breakout. It still got played in the placement cups up until it was removed as an official game type. Not much of a comparison to what happened yesterday.

 

I don’t have the answers, but I do know acting like children and creating a headache for the TO that everyone wanted back in the very first event is not a good way to go about it. Clap and MLG chose to be nice about it, if I was running the show the teams absolutely would have been DQ’d.

 

343 and the players both come out looking bad now, instead of just 343.

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Its weird that only the NA pros seem to hate it where as the EU pros seem to be willing to give it a try.

 

Has any pro made a lengthy comment about why it doesn't work?

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Pros still practiced breakout. It still got played in the placement cups up until it was removed as an official game type. Not much of a comparison to what happened yesterday.

 

I don’t have the answers, but I do know acting like children and creating a headache for the TO that everyone wanted back in the very first event is not a good way to go about it. Clap and MLG chose to be nice about it, if I was running the show the teams absolutely would have been DQ’d.

 

343 and the players both come out looking bad now, instead of just 343.

yup only MLG comes out clean in this. But now they have to deal with potentially being held to task for inconsistent rule enforcement. Some teams in some regions played Oddball, as required, and other broke the rules after a direct warning from MLG. That asymmetry puts MLG in a bad place because teams are playing by different rules.
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I'll tell you what they shouldn't do: boycott a gametype in violation of the rules. That is the absolute worst route regardless of their thoughts on gametypes added on 12/22. It is objectively a rules violation and subjectively it reflects poorly on the scene and further exacerbates the communication chain. Also and most importantly now we have zero data from the pro level tournament play to assess the setting for future tweaks. I'm sure many will respond with how important this tournament is for seeding and they 'did what they had to do' and/or they communicated issues and were not listened to...I get it, but it doesn't mean breaking the rules is the right course of action.

Thanks for being here to clarify these things. Can you share the plan going forward with mlg and shaping settings in the future?

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Its weird that only the NA pros seem to hate it where as the EU pros seem to be willing to give it a try.

 

Has any pro made a lengthy comment about why it doesn't work?

 

I'm not a pro, but it's easy to tell why Oddball doesn't work. The Ball has little to no extra spawn influence. If your team has the ball Red Bubble on Truth for example, the other team can spawn in Red flag. This creates a ton of extra chaos and makes it significantly harder to defend. Traditionally, the defending team has the added advantage of forcing more predictable spawns for their opponent to balance the fact that they are playing 3v4.

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Optic got knocked out and only placed top12 @ Nola. :apg:

 

 

@@Clap my only issue with the broadcast is that the round isnt shown on screen during a match

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I like that when Clap gets in here everyone shuts up and smiles. 

 

You communicate like an adult and if you feel like you don't have a voice as an adult this doesn't justify acting like a kid - ends don't justify the means - blah blah blah.

 

What I keep on thinking about it is, what does 343 get out of putting Oddball back in? It's not like it is some evil plan to screw over the Pros. Put your faith in MLG, if you cannot put it in 343 and let them do their job. Oh but they suck at their job? Then communicate like an adult, because it's still THEIR job and they certainly are not going to listen to people acting like bratty kids holding their breath. The Halo franchise will move forward without the current pros, however, it will not move forward without 343 and MLG. 

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