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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Pretty sure this is somehow a troll, but my desire to possibly help outweighs my fear of embarrassment....first thing that comes to mind is google drive or Dropbox or some similar programs that automatically sync files in the background.

Is not being able to be taken seriously even when you want to some ascended tier of troll? My original post was about as mundane of a post as anyone could ever make, and it's still "somehow a troll". This is making me laugh.

 

 

Also, your help has been very unhelpful, so hopefully you're still embarrassed.

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I'm not saying that those situations aren't exciting but when winning the 1v1 means the game keeps going isn't nearly as exciting as a 49-49 or a 5-5 snd in CoD

if both teams are at 95-99 its basically next team to to get a 2 cap wins. Close games will often be decided by one big fight at a stronghold towards the end.

I guess I can see your point there, but I suppose for me, the idea of that player extending the game for his team is just as nutty as a 50-49 win, even more so (for me). 

 

I mean, agree to disagree I guess. Calling a game the best jetpack game is like saying Halo 5 is the best game with sprint. And I very much disagree that CoD4 was overrated, it's the pinnacle of the franchise, both casually and competitively IMO. Good SMG's were abundant in CoD4: The Mp5, P90 and 74u were all monsters. And sure the M16 was a beast, but if the standard is guns that are must picks, the M16 wasn't it. There was a pretty decent amount of variety in CoD4. The M16, Ak47, Mp5, P90, 74u, and even snipers in SnD saw pretty regular use. The least variety there ever was in the competitive CoD scene came during Black Ops 1, when the meta was literally 4 Famas's vs 4 Famas's, and starting with any other weapon was knowingly starting at a disadvantage. But like I said, agree to disagree. 

I'm not going to try and interject into this argument at all, because both sides have merit, but I didn't watch much competitive CoD4 until the remaster recently and it seems to be a real fuckfest. I don't disagree at all about the variety of Call of Duty games being absolutely brutal a lot of the time, but remember with 4v4 and everyone holding famases it seems eerily similar to Halo playing 4v4 with BRs or pistols. Just my .02 there, because you can certainly argue against that. I just think CoD4 is way overhyped even though I do think it's a solid game. 

 

 

I mean I don't know what to tell you. I played variant, and watched a hell of a lot of it from 07-09, and saying the M16 was the only gun people used is simply untrue. I'm not saying it wasn't the most popular, because it was, but all the guns I previously listed were extremely common as well. Also, Frag x3 was banned almost immediately in competitive settings, and Jugg and stopping power literally cancelled each other out. Saying CoD4 is a mess compared to modern CoD titles is just funny. Things like a million cracy killstreaks, OP akimbo secondaries, sitrep pro, things like awareness and tracker in BO3, see through walls vision, motion tracker, the blur glitch, etc. 

 

We're not going to agree on this, and I don't want to have this discussion because I've already had it on reddit more times than I can count. 

I don't think he was really arguing in favor of any of the other games or comparing CoD4 to any of the modern titles, just kind of him saying that that specific game is a mess (which at least in the remaster it certainly seems to be to me). 

 

Positing on the topic of Halo, I think T2 is about to do some damage which isn't great. Just needs to get it under control. Like others have said, no need to antagonize the casual player base more than competitive settings already do. The worst part of the situation is that competitive and casual settings can be and have been successful existing side by side.

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I think CS is a perfectly apt comparison given that it's the biggest competitive FPS in the world, bigger than Halo ever was at its peak and it still has a clear identity as a competitive game as well as plenty of non-standard custom and official content. It is the best case scenario for a truly skill-oriented FPS with a large population of casual players and a healthy hardcore scene. Halo's "everybody is special" set up was only ever going to work in its prime and has very clearly led to problems as it declined.

 

​Frankly, at this point, I think Halo's various communities are too divided and functionally unrelated to meaningfully salvage and I'm not interested in arguing with Griffball pros, Banshee pilots, and kids whose play-styles "aren't big on accuracy." It's a fucking waste of time and as long as every single niche within the Halo community thinks their random bullshit is just as much the core Halo experience as any other, no one is going to be happy with the results, least of all meanie-head MLG 360 no-scope tryhard competitive players. So, again, I would much rather cut ties with those dumb-asses (in particular, the casuals still around at this point in the 3v4 Industries saga) than pretend humoring them is going to solve any problems. And the best chance for doing that, as I see it, would be a developer taking advantage of the absence of Halo games in the past 7 years with a new game with Halo-inspired gameplay and CS:GO's clarity of identity.

 

Sorry late response, ive been swamped in work lately. Its fun to have these pipe dreams about a "MLG approved" Halo succeeding on PC but we all know that will never happen.The truth is, Halo was never made to be CS(no AAA title is) nor will it ever have the singular focus and "cult" community like CS does. I doubt we will ever see another CS like game again TBH just like we might not ever see a Q3A again. Those games built their audiences and renown within the core shooter communities at an early point when there wasnt many other games to choose from for decades on upon decades and are played just as much because of they are so easily identifiable with PC competitive communities and culture and because of the strong core followings as they are because they are quality competitive FPS. Think about it...is CS:GO really that much more popular of a competitive FPS because its innovative(lol), more creative(double lol), offers more game modes/diversity, or that much better than other modern hardcore FPS like RS:Siege, Arma 3, Lawbreakers, UT4, ect... or is it the established e-sport infrastructure and huge core community following that allows it to be that much more popular than other games like it? Its all just one big cycle, the rich get richer and the poor continue to get poorer. The same franchises have been at the top FOREVER in the MP FPS genre.

 

PC FPS communities are deeply entrenched over decades of continued growth and support, what makes you think a Halo-like PC FPS title would have any more success than a new IP like LB for example? The PC MP FPS scene is a bloodbath(like an Unreal Tournament but IRL lol) where only the strongest and most grizzled ancients survive especially now that Blizzard and OW came to play, with heavyweights like Quake Champions waiting in the wings. Yea, good luck with that just ask LB how well a new Arena-style IP fared on PC. The truth is, the Halo competitive scene would be dead by now(similar to UT) or have never existed if it was a PC-focused franchise. There was ALOT better PC MP FPS around the time of HCE's launch on Xbox. It has a nice niche on Xbox, one of if not the top brand, and best of all without much competition in its niche. If you think 343  and Halo esports is in bad shape now just imagine them going against Valve and CS or Blizzard and OW lol. Or Halo 5's campaign being compared to DOOM 2016. Halos glaring lack of esport features, dev support, weapon balance and more would be so glaring compared to those games that nobody would bother with it. Its all just a pipe dream that will never happen, Halo will never be CS nor will it ever be feasible for it to break into the deeply entrenched and (and yes, sometimes elitist) PC FPS competitive scene.

 

The good news is....Halo doesnt have to directly compete with the PC heavyweights. Halo has advantages and versatility those other games I mentioned do not have the luxury of having and a wider reach overall. Halo has to play to its strengths just like CS plays to its strength and core community so well. 343 has NOT played to Halo's strengths thus far and instead tried to "chase" their competition and have further diluted the game's identity and actually hacked off some of the prominent communities in the process. At the end of the day, a good competitive Halo game that is fun and able to be understood by the "average AR pro" player is when Halo esports will take the next step. It will never get there by trying to be another game or another scene like UT ultimately failed to do at a great cost to the average UT player and the community and competitive scene overall. You can learn from those scenes certainly but Halo will be successful when it accentuates its strengths and refinds its identity, not by trying to be CoD, CS, a Hero shooter, or whatever the current flavor of the month shooter is.

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MLG Could maybe make halo worth watching again

I think first Halo needs to become Halo again, but MLG could certainly improve things from where we're currently at. 

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also, anyone knows why everyone hats aches? or why they say that everyone hates him? what has he done? is he cocky?

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also, anyone knows why everyone hats aches? or why they say that everyone hates him? what has he done? is he cocky?

I should say upfront that I haven't really followed CoD that closely since around the end of Black Ops 2, so if new stuff has happened, I'm probably unaware. Basically he pushed Nadeshot after he lost a tournament to Optic and upset a lot of people. He used to tweet a lot of kind of douchey stuff, and he would shit talk MLG staff when MLG was signing players to stream exclusively on MLG.tv and not on Twitch. Eventually he was suspended from the league. Basically he came across as a massive asshole on Twitter, had a huge ego, and kind of seemed like that kid who took being good at Call of Duty way too seriously. 

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also, anyone knows why everyone hats aches? or why they say that everyone hates him? what has he done? is he cocky?

The guy speaks his mind without fear and people don't like it.
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Is not being able to be taken seriously even when you want to some ascended tier of troll? My original post was about as mundane of a post as anyone could ever make, and it's still "somehow a troll". This is making me laugh.

 

 

Also, your help has been very unhelpful, so hopefully you're still embarrassed.

Accidental mobile neg I think.

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One of the things that ESL failed to do was to create storylines. Storylines are going to keep the spectator coming back and watching because they want to know what happened since they last watched. MLG creates storylines very very well, that’s what makes the cod scene thrive too imo.

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One of the things that ESL failed to do was to create storylines. Storylines are going to keep the spectator coming back and watching because they want to know what happened since they last watched. MLG creates storylines very very well, that’s what makes the cod scene thrive too imo.

Sometimes it's not even that they have to create them, just give them attention. There are a ton of storylines going on in Call of Duty that they highlight - like last year with Optic and Champs (kind of every year before that too) but also Aches v. Optic, and now with Clayster v. Faze, Gunless v. eU, Censor and his guys coming through open bracket to make it to pools, etc. There's a lot of storylines in both games (probably in all esports, like how VP in CS has been playing together for years etc.), but like you said ESL/343 did a really shit job of exploiting them and MLG does a great job of letting them shine through. 

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The only thing I don't like about CoD's observer mode is in CTF there is no obvious way to see which player has the flag. Something to pop up on screen telling the viewer that the player we're watching has the flag would go a long long way to making it clearer for the general viewer. Takes me a good 3 seconds to figure out where the flag is by looking at the mini map/scoreboard to see who has it, which is kinda dumb considering it's the whole point of the game mode.

 

Outside of that I like it a lot. Hoping we get a mini scoreboard and custom team colours in the next Halo title's observer mode, big fan of those.

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...

 

I'm not really sure why this is so difficult for you, as you seem to be extremely defensive about Halo's casual communities, but I am in no way suggesting that Halo simply copy CS:GO, nor am I suggesting that Halo's potential for variety be abandoned. I am saying that there are fairly obvious reasons for CS's success and a lot of that is also easily identified in basically all of the most successful esports. They have a clear identity and a passionate CORE community that has advocated for that identity on its own.
 
Halo? What the hell is Halo's identity? Put aside the many, many casual communities, COMPETITIVE Halo isn't even remotely coherent. Is it "classic Halo?" Is it "thrust slide Halo?" Is it CE, H2, H3? Is it Reach NBNS? H5 Spartan Abilities radar? H5 Team Arena? BREAKOUT? And what are the game types? On what kinds of maps? Slayer? CTF? KotH? Strongholds? Extraction? Oddball? SWAT? FFA? Doubles? SNIPERS? Just look at Halo 5. It literally has more ranked playlists than social playlists. Practically the only thing that Halo's competitive community can mostly agree on is that sprint doesn't belong.
 
This is what I'm talking about. Halo doesn't need CS's identity. It needs to actually have its own and, frankly, it doesn't really have that now. There have been 3 Counter-Strike games. One of them was all but skipped by CS's core community because they have STANDARDS, so CS 1.6 was played until CS:GO was acknowledged to be a proper successor. Halo's competitive community? Overwhlemingly moved on to the latest sequel immediately every time, even when the new game was widely acknowledged to be dog shit. Part of this is the nature of console gaming and regular sequels justified in large part by random change for its own sake), but you seem to be under the impression that a completely incoherent notion of Halo as "whatever the fuck every single little niche thinks it is" counts as a meaningful direction for the series.
 
And your examples are just out of touch. UT4? You mean that feature-light, super niche game that has been in clunky early access for years? Does it even have ranked match-making yet? Lawbreakers, you mean that arena-ish hero shooter that was literally never going anywhere, because it was bland, forgettable, and on the tail end of the downward swing of the hero shooter trend (the heavy weights of which, as with any trend, were established very early on)? Quake Champions is a joke for similar reasons. Rainbow 6 Siege? You mean the game with a clear core community, focused competitive experience, and consistent developer support that has grown consistently over the past 2 years and is now a permanent fixture in the top 10 most played on Xbox and Steam? That Rainbow 6 Siege? Arma 3? Uh. What? lol.
 
And then we get to your hypothetical scenario of Halo "going against" Valve and Blizzard? I don't even understand what you think your point is here. I'm talking about a Halo game or Halo-like game that isn't a mediocre piece of shit. What does comparisons of Halo 5's awful campaign to DOOM 2016 have to do with anything? What do the poor esports features, balance, developer support have to do with that? It's like you think the only scenario for Halo (or a Halo clone) on PC would be just copy-pasting it with all of its problems and short-comings and hoping for the best, something you seem to be simultaneously arguing for and against. Microsoft has plenty of money. There is no reason they couldn't come up with a feature set comparable to Overwatch with the superior, highly customizable gameplay of a decent Halo at its core. That is a niche that remains unfilled on console and PC alike.
 
Halo can be accessible for newbies and casual players and offer a wide variety of experience (which is already true of CS: GO), without treating everything like an equally representative aspect of the game. And beyond the focused community that kept CS going for years, CS:GO also has some significant features that a lot of failed niche games didn't. Ranked match-making? The cosmetic economy and the community built around it? I'm talking about learning from nearly all of the most successful multiplayer games that aren't CoD and, as I've said, Halo is in an unfortunate situation where every kid thinks their goofy niche is what Halo should be about. How many years of arguments with these "essential" casuals does it take to finally conclude that it's an unproductive waste of time? Why should anyone give a shit what hardcore Team Duels kid thinks about weapon balance?
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Crazy to see they still managed to get Champ Sunday going with all the issues out of their control. Props to @@Clap and his team :fire:

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Wait a minute competitive COD has killstreaks?

 

They've been using scorestreaks for awhile now.

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