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Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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i think she's just asking people not to write long winded essays filled with irrelevant stuff

 

 

she's 100% right in saying "It's easier to digest and remember, making it more powerful and retainable."

 

people remember headlines

HALO 5 SELLS WORSE THAN EVERY MAIN TITLE BEFORE IT

(too bad this head line doesn't bother them)

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I think you guys are looking for something to hate here...

I don't have a problem with her individually.  We had a good back and forth the other day. Some data, some anecdote, very little hyperbole.

 

Some of you are wacked.  There are all of 2 or 3 people from that studio that will actually have a conversation with you about this shit and you pass it off as disingenuous lip service instead of taking advantage of the opportunity.  There are very few windows into that studio that we can use to nudge their perception of what Halo "Should be", so when one opens up we should try to keep it open as long as possible...

 

I don't get it.

I don't hate anything she's said. I just disagree with her tip on the length of feedback. The best feedback is longer, in depth, easy to read, and relevant.

 

That and data shouldn't take precedent over feel.

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I think you guys are looking for something to hate here...

I don't have a problem with her individually.  We had a good back and forth the other day. Some data, some anecdote, very little hyperbole.

 

Some of you are wacked.  There are all of 2 or 3 people from that studio that will actually have a conversation with you about this shit and you pass it off as disingenuous lip service instead of taking advantage of the opportunity.  There are very few windows into that studio that we can use to nudge their perception of what Halo "Should be", so when one opens up we should try to keep it open as long as possible...

 

I don't get it.

I think one of the main problems with all of this that's going to bug some people is the fact that all of the feedback they apparently want already exists and has been summarily ignored multiple times. Its not like people are giving opinions on a sudden shift they didn't like. We're literally repeating 10 years of the same feedback. They need to stop asking for it and go read it. They have quite a bit of catching up to do. At this point we've said it all and they just need to read it. They also need to understand that they're in a position where they've alienated more Halo fans than still play their game so when they publicly say anything about Halo there are far more people that are unhappy with their company/games as a whole than there will be that actually enjoy them. You're going to get roasted if you're 343 because not everyone is nice and you've put off quite a lot of people.

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i think she's just asking people not to write long winded essays filled with irrelevant stuff

 

 

she's 100% right in saying "It's easier to digest and remember, making it more powerful and retainable."

 

people remember headlines

Yeah, I think I was looking at it wrong. I don't think she's saying "don't explain yourself" just "don't ramble on about it."  It's hard not to be overly critical tho when it seems every step 343 takes is in the wrong direction.

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I don't hate anything she's said. I just disagree with her tip on the length of feedback. The best feedback is longer, in depth, easy to read, and relevant.

 

That and data shouldn't take precedent over feel.

 

I think by "Concise" she means, "Don't include extra shit that's really not relevant to the point you are making".  Especially on twitter.

 

I think one of the main problems with all of this that's going to bug some people is the fact that all of the feedback they apparently want already exists and has been summarily ignored multiple times. Its not like people are giving opinions on a sudden shift they didn't like. We're literally repeating 10 years of the same feedback. They need to stop asking for it and go read it. They have quite a bit of catching up to do. At this point we've said it all and they just need to read it.

 

 

It's the same stuff, different year though.

 

People in the gaming industry move around a lot - then if she (and others) go then we have to start this whole cycle all over again. People have been saying the same sentiments for more than half a decade now, but they keep doubling down on this random stuff to add to Halo. Fans are just tired of hearing "well where's this feedback at?" then once it's provided - nothing happens. I'm not expecting the next Halo title to be like Halo 2/3, but I shouldn't worry more about there being wallrunning. Everything seems so backwards, and if the recent changes and tests are a taste of things to come - then people just won't care to comment or leave feedback since it looks like a lost cause at this point.

 

With that said, props to them trying I guess? We will always moderate and push our feedback threads the best we can for the greater good of the game and community - but on a personal level I think I've had my fill trying to leave feedback thinking it will make a difference. Once a vision is set by a group, it's very hard to change.

Yeah that shit bugs me too. but every time someone new pops up that is willing to have a conversation its another opportunity to get that feedback somewhere where someone will use it properly.  I don't know if this "research team" is new, but the open communication is fairly new.  There are literally thousands of forum posts and most of them don't have the combined information they are looking for so expecting them to find the posts that matter in the sea of bullshit is unreasonable.

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What I don't get is how these public-facing people seem to be blissfully unaware of the widespread, overwhelmingly negative reputation of the studio and its products among Halo fans and gamers alike. The past 7 years of 343 Industries has set the tone for these conversations. That is the context they're dealing with, so advice like "don't exaggerate," "keep it short," and "make sure you say IMO" comes across as flippant and dismissive. No one is looking for advice on how to give feedback. They are looking for an actual two-way dialogue. Frankly, that advice reads more like a list of "reasons we will ignore feedback," whether or not that's the intent (it probably isn't). And how many times has Grim made condescending/dismissive comments, been shocked at the negative reaction, and then insisted that they were taken the wrong way? The man is a writer, yet doesn't seem to know his audience at all.

 

How exactly is this surprising to you? I'm sure that Jessie T. and Jeff E. are both nice people and I have nothing against them personally, but their social media interactions have been largely tone deaf at best. How many times has this kind of tone-policing nonsense come up in relation to 343 and community interaction? At what point can they just suck it up and take some angry, hyperbolic comments like adults? 343 as a studio has earned them.

 

Well its not surprising at all, it just doesn't make sense to take a tone with individuals even though 343 the studio has totally earned it.  I posted earlier how the organization as a whole shouldn't be surprised when the first response is hyperbolic anger because we have been conditioned to react that way at this point.  But posting to the crowd on a forum or management that has been there forrrrreevvver vs trying to have a direct conversation with an individual are different things. Especially if that individual is newer, lower in the pecking order, or has a history of actually directly responding.

 

Its also human nature to be dismissive of people that are being aggressive.  You can say, "well they should get over it and listen anyway" but the fact of the matter is... they won't... unless its a giant crowd all yelling about the same thing (BR starts for example), and generally that is listened to mainly as a PR move and not because the individuals involved actually want to.

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Well its not surprising at all, it just doesn't make sense to take a tone with individuals even though 343 the studio has totally earned it.  I posted earlier how the organization as a whole shouldn't be surprised when the first response is hyperbolic anger because we have been conditioned to react that way at this point.  But posting to the crowd on a forum or management that has been there forrrrreevvver vs trying to have a direct conversation with an individual are different things. Especially if that individual is newer, lower in the pecking order, or has a history of actually directly responding.

 

Its also human nature to be dismissive of people that are being aggressive.  You can say, "well they should get over it and listen anyway" but the fact of the matter is... they won't... unless its a giant crowd all yelling about the same thing (BR starts for example), and generally that is listened to mainly as a PR move and not because the individuals involved actually want to.

it's interesting that your 2nd paragraph really plays into the conditioning thing as well.  Even now it seems like they made the change as a PR move, and not because they wanted to.  So what does that mean for next time?  I need to get as mad as possible and get as many other people equally as mad so they will make another "PR" move, because they never want to do it based on my reasonable feedback.  It's unfortunate that type of conversation ends up pointed at individuals, but at this point it's like 343 just puts people in front of the firing squad to deal with their PR and doesn't actually give them the ability to make changes anyway.

 

I do find it interesting how bad it's gotten since Sketch was out of town.  I'm really starting to think he is a huge piece of this getting going back in the right direction.

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i think she's just asking people not to write long winded essays filled with irrelevant stuff

 

 

she's 100% right in saying "It's easier to digest and remember, making it more powerful and retainable."

 

people remember headlines

 

people remember headlines

yes but is also easier to dismiss. 

 

"i don't like sprint/br/gf starts/spartanabilities. i feel like they cheapen the experience  and try to please everyone while making no one happy."

 

"well that is very simplistic view. you don't have the data we have and the type of game you are advocating for cater's to small group of players/all the excuses we've heard before"

 

"we see that you don't seem to like br/gf starts so you can have the magnum while we continue to tune gr/gf starts bc our data supports that"

I think you guys are looking for something to hate here...

I don't have a problem with her individually.  We had a good back and forth the other day. Some data, some anecdote, very little hyperbole.

 

Some of you are wacked.  There are all of 2 or 3 people from that studio that will actually have a conversation with you about this shit and you pass it off as disingenuous lip service instead of taking advantage of the opportunity.  There are very few windows into that studio that we can use to nudge their perception of what Halo "Should be", so when one opens up we should try to keep it open as long as possible...

 

I don't get it.

i think the big issue is that there is such a small window that seems to shift every few months, and once someone new begins talks, it is always back at the beginning.

 

jessie seems nice. i dont know who she is/what she does/the changes she can make but i like that she is willing to have a dialog. i dont care for the direction she takes stuff. she seems very concerned that we provide the data to counter their data. which is...wrong. because she can destroy any argument for us not having the correct data.

 

you commented on this thread to an insanely will written post over 13 tweets

her intentions seem good, but why is feedback to a game we want to buy and play turned into a thesis exercise on map measurements, traversal times, the number of PvP interactions, ttk, etc. i get that this is how she looks at things:

https://twitter.com/Jessabirdy/status/933023449932369920

but at the same time we've been starting, stopping, and restarting this conversation for years and years and being told to be concise but then asked for our data feels disingenuous.

 

do you want to dismiss people who are irrationally angry? sure but realize that their anger doesnt devalue their opinion. do you want relevant data? fine, but that is your job to develop a game that the fans want vs one that you think we want. fan feedback shouldnt need to be data driven; each piece of feedback should be seen as a data point. 

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Well its not surprising at all, it just doesn't make sense to take a tone with individuals even though 343 the studio has totally earned it.  I posted earlier how the organization as a whole shouldn't be surprised when the first response is hyperbolic anger because we have been conditioned to react that way at this point.  But posting to the crowd on a forum or management that has been there forrrrreevvver vs trying to have a direct conversation with an individual are different things. Especially if that individual is newer, lower in the pecking order, or has a history of actually directly responding.

 

Its also human nature to be dismissive of people that are being aggressive.  You can say, "well they should get over it and listen anyway" but the fact of the matter is... they won't... unless its a giant crowd all yelling about the same thing (BR starts for example), and generally that is listened to mainly as a PR move and not because the individuals involved actually want to.

if anyone else has worked retail, you probably got some line about how you are the face of the company and you set the tone about how customers view the company. at best buy, you could get fired for getting in trouble or causing trouble outside of work while wearing your branded shirt. wells fargo was the same and at either place any discussion of the place of business better be positive and polite or your ass is gone.

 

it is the same here. in welcoming feedback as a 343 employee, you are becoming a face of the company and every opinion that has been searching for an outlet will come your way. right or wrong, it will. also in giving your criteria for instantly dismissing feedback, you give the appearance that this is how the company takes feedback. if she really is in a position to receive and pass along community feedback, then she should not be telling us how to give feedback and asking for data to back it up, but taking and compiling the feedback and passing it along. de-escalate anger by showing results, then we can start coming at you more calmly until we get to the point where i can trust that the right thing is going to be done without

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SIX weeks into the "few weeks until we announce the TO and dates" and they're STILL coming soonTM.

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yes but is also easier to dismiss. 

 

"i don't like sprint/br/gf starts/spartanabilities. i feel like they cheapen the experience  and try to please everyone while making no one happy."

 

"well that is very simplistic view. you don't have the data we have and the type of game you are advocating for cater's to small group of players/all the excuses we've heard before"

 

"we see that you don't seem to like br/gf starts so you can have the magnum while we continue to tune gr/gf starts bc our data supports that"

i think the big issue is that there is such a small window that seems to shift every few months, and once someone new begins talks, it is always back at the beginning.

 

jessie seems nice. i dont know who she is/what she does/the changes she can make but i like that she is willing to have a dialog. i dont care for the direction she takes stuff. she seems very concerned that we provide the data to counter their data. which is...wrong. because she can destroy any argument for us not having the correct data.

 

you commented on this thread to an insanely will written post over 13 tweets

her intentions seem good, but why is feedback to a game we want to buy and play turned into a thesis exercise on map measurements, traversal times, the number of PvP interactions, ttk, etc. i get that this is how she looks at things:

https://twitter.com/Jessabirdy/status/933023449932369920

but at the same time we've been starting, stopping, and restarting this conversation for years and years and being told to be concise but then asked for our data feels disingenuous.

 

do you want to dismiss people who are irrationally angry? sure but realize that their anger doesnt devalue their opinion. do you want relevant data? fine, but that is your job to develop a game that the fans want vs one that you think we want. fan feedback shouldnt need to be data driven; each piece of feedback should be seen as a data point. 

 

 

 

Yeah I agree.  Opinions shouldn't be dismissed just because someone is angry or because they can't articulate themselves well.  If the argument makes sense, it makes sense.  But at the same time, i get it.  I have absolutely dismissed people who made perfectly valid points because they pissed me off and frankly, "fuck them". And yeah, anecdotal evidence doesn't really mean much... until you have a huge population of people telling you the same anecdotal stuff then it aggregates to something meaningful.

 

Doesn't she work for 343? Or am I misunderstanding something?

 

edit: According to twitter she's an Xbox researcher with 343.

 

Nothing against her, but it's some juicy irony when a 343 employee is asking for population data when they're the only ones who have it, won't release it, and it's blatantly obvious to literally everyone else how bad the population has sunk..

 

I'd imagine her position doesn't allow her access to that information if she's having to ask people on twitter. The point still stands.

 

Honestly, sometimes its just faster too.  I work in QA so I have direct access to the development team all the time but if I have a question about how something existing is supposed to work i don't ask the dev team.  I ask the support team, because they pour over all that shit with actual users all the time.  The dev team lives in a little bubble and has no idea how the client perceives things nor frankly do most of them care.  I would bet my next paycheck that its faster to ask the community "what are the stats on population decline." than it is to ask Josh's team to aggregate population statistics for each halo game.

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Here is your headline, take notes 343:

 

 

SCRANTON AREA PAPER COMPANY

DUNDER  MIFFLIN  APOLOGIZES

TO VALUED CLIENT:

 

SOME COMPANIES STILL KNOW

HOW   BUSINESS   IS  DONE

Michael Scott holding a top position at 343 could actually explain quote a lot. 

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I know im reaching here, but if we are getting MLG, do you guys think that they would want to wait until after the Gears and COD events to announce it?

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