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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I have a feeling we will be going back at least a page by tomorrow. It was fun reading though. Thanks for the entertainment  :Toxic:  :beyond:  

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Is it possible to mute a user on here? 

 

You can hide their posts. So... kind of?

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Chill out with the personal attacks -- last warning. Any further posts will be removed and warrant action against the user.

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Frankly, I agree with the vast majority of things you post on pretty much any topic, or if I disagree you at least tend to bring up thought provoking points. I like having you on the forums.  But the way you present yourself just makes me groan and does nothing but shoot yourself in your own foot.  There's no reason for it.

 

 

this ... basically everything the guy has said is reasonable.  I'm not so bothered by the tone, personally

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Also at this point the thread should just be renamed to "General Videogame, Forum Melodrama, MCC, and 343i Hate Discussion".

 

I can't remember a time when this thread was about competitive Halo lmao.

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Anyone else hoping for a new Elder Scrolls game to be announced at e3? It'd been 7 years since Skyrim came out and i just wanted to slaughter endless people in the name of Talos.

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I miss forum poster 1st, pro player 2nd, and twitch streamer 3rd TJ

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H5 has the tightest skillgap of the entire franchise. Thoughts?

 

 

false, I'd say H1 > H5 > everything else in terms of skill gap

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I agree that Borderlands has mediocre gunplay on pretty much an objective level. Bullet and melee sounds are pitiful, enemies slowly float to the ground and groan when they die, they get launched miles by shotguns while maintaining perfect composure in the air and taking no damage, the movement is awkward, ADS is awkward. Really the only positive I can say about it is that the weapons are nearly all projectile and that there's decent RPG depth.

 

What I disagree with is your implication that gunplay is all that matters. For many people Borderlands has enjoyable story, humor, characters, environments, challenging and well designed co-op play unlike many other co-op games, etc. There are aspects of the game aside from the skinnerbox system that would lead people to enjoy it. And hell, I definitely wouldn't mind if the gunplay was improved on top of all that. You might not like those aspects but that doesn't render them irrelevant.

 

Conversely and of note, Rage might've had good gunplay but it was met with a lukewarm at best reception because people generally found the other aspects of the game lacking, i.e. no diversity in environments and the completely nonexistent story. I heard people discuss Borderlands constantly, I've rarely ever heard anyone so much as mention Rage until the announcement of it's sequel.

 

Frankly, I agree with the vast majority of things you post on pretty much any topic, or if I disagree you at least tend to bring up thought provoking points. I like having you on the forums. But the way you present yourself just makes me groan and does nothing but shoot yourself in your own foot. There's no reason for it.

Nice. Substance. I'll put my reply in spoilers, since this conversation has taken up plenty of space already.

 

 

I'm not really suggesting that gunplay is all that matters, but I do think it should a big deal in a game that is overwhelmingly combat driven and I'm interested in the specific reasons why people find Borderlands so much more compelling. I fully admit that I am overwhelmingly interested in gameplay mechanics, in part because I think most games do such a terrible job at story-telling.

 

People also compared RAGE unfavorably to Fallout 3, which also has terrible shooting mechanics (and the briefly entertaining VATS system). Like Borderlands, the vast majority of what you do in that game is shoot things.

 

Skyrim is a similar kind of game. It has very, VERY little going on beyond combat and the combat system is terrible, yet people have put thousands of hours into it and regard it one of the best RPGs ever made. It doesn't have an interesting story (and, in fact, is beloved for the fact that people skip it for hundreds of hours of fetch quests), the leveling system is shallow, loot exists for its own sake, meaningful choice and consequence (i.e. role-playing) is nowhere to be seen and the game world barely acknowledges your presence (except to praise you for incidentally being the Dragonborn, of course). The soundtrack is good.

 

As much as people want to suggest that these games have some greater depth to their systems, I just don't see it. The leveling systems are not complex. Builds aren't that interesting. Strategy is not complicated. You don't make interesting choices with interesting or unexpected consequences. You decide how you want to kill things and then grind the game for higher levels and better weapons to do it with. I find it hard to believe that most of the elements you mention (a lot of it aesthetic) are what kept people engaged for hundreds of hours, multiple play-throughs, and multiple characters.

 

I think what these games have in common is that they all have watered down RPG mechanics distilled into their most psychologically compelling elements. I think people like loot gambling and watching a bunch of numbers increase (and boy does Borderlands have tons of numbers that increase). It's constant positive feedback. Those kinds of systems have a fundamentally addictive quality that allows people to overlook uninteresting gameplay.

 

RAGE had an unbelievably satisfying, bad-ass shotgun, but you didn't get any XP for shooting people with it.

 

 

I guess I'm out of patience for the uncritical positive receptions of these games, because I love RPGs, I love FPS games, and the ways in which these genres have largely gotten dumbed down over the years is dismissed with vague claims about "fun." I mean, this is a Halo forum, right? Borderlands has one of the most annoying, sluggish implementations of sprint and ADS I have ever experienced. It's awful. No one is annoyed by having to deal with that literally any time you aren't in a menu for 30+ hours? Really?

 

Whatever. To each their own, I guess. This whole thing started because I said RAGE had better gunplay. lol.

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I guess I just don't know what you want me to say to that. lol. It's great that you guys love that game so much and care enough to keep its extremely small competitive scene going. More power to you. I'm sure you have a great time every year and I hope this year's Beach LAN is the best yet.

 

That said, I think I've been fairly clear that I'm not really that interested in competition on consoles at this point and if I were going to a LAN it would probably not be for  a 17-year-old 30 FPS console game. Beyond that, I just don't think I'm ever going to put the time into that particular title necessary to get even half decent at it, which makes going to a LAN event kind of pointless, IMO.

 

It's less about me wanting you to say what I want to hear and more the fact that I addressed/quoted you directly in two posts that never received a response. I mean I asked your interest in halo in general and then after that never got responses about Beach LAN specifically. Like I said others ended up answering on their own with plenty of valid reasons. However, those people often aren't talking down to others about competitive merit and game mechanics so I was very interested in what is stopping you from going specifically.

 

So it's a combo of the game running at 30fps and the fact that you are playing against people who never stopped playing since launch that's stopping you. I think that's fair enough it just is weird to see such constant complaints about Halo when this exists as an outlet. Not saying the complaints aren't valid, just trying to see if there is an actual desire to play a form of Halo you might enjoy. If I had to guess it seems like most of the enjoyment actually comes from the ability to talk down about the series on a website that is primarily focused on it.

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Nice. Substance. I'll put my reply in spoilers, since this conversation has taken up plenty of space already.

 

 

I'm not really suggesting that gunplay is all that matters, but I do think it should a big deal in a game that is overwhelmingly combat driven and I'm interested in the specific reasons why people find Borderlands so much more compelling. I fully admit that I am overwhelmingly interested in gameplay mechanics, in part because I think most games do such a terrible job at story-telling.

 

People also compared RAGE unfavorably to Fallout 3, which also has terrible shooting mechanics (and the briefly entertaining VATS system). Like Borderlands, the vast majority of what you do in that game is shoot things.

 

Skyrim is a similar kind of game. It has very, VERY little going on beyond combat and the combat system is terrible, yet people have put thousands of hours into it and regard it one of the best RPGs ever made. It doesn't have an interesting story (and, in fact, is beloved for the fact that people skip it for hundreds of hours of fetch quests), the leveling system is shallow, loot exists for its own sake, meaningful choice and consequence (i.e. role-playing) is nowhere to be seen and the game world barely acknowledges your presence (except to praise you for incidentally being the Dragonborn, of course). The soundtrack is good.

 

As much as people want to suggest that these games have some greater depth to their systems, I just don't see it. The leveling systems are not complex. Builds aren't that interesting. Strategy is not complicated. You don't make interesting choices with interesting or unexpected consequences. You decide how you want to kill things and then grind the game for higher levels and better weapons to do it with. I find it hard to believe that most of the elements you mention (a lot of it aesthetic) are what kept people engaged for hundreds of hours, multiple play-throughs, and multiple characters.

 

I think what these games have in common is that they all have watered down RPG mechanics distilled into their most psychologically compelling elements. I think people like loot gambling and watching a bunch of numbers increase (and boy does Borderlands have tons of numbers that increase). It's constant positive feedback. Those kinds of systems have a fundamentally addictive quality that allows people to overlook uninteresting gameplay.

 

RAGE had an unbelievably satisfying, bad-ass shotgun, but you didn't get any XP for shooting people with it.

 

 

I guess I'm out of patience for the uncritical positive receptions of these games, because I love RPGs, I love FPS games, and the ways in which these genres have largely gotten dumbed down over the years is dismissed with vague claims about "fun." I mean, this is a Halo forum, right? Borderlands has one of the most annoying, sluggish implementations of sprint and ADS I have ever experienced. It's awful. No one is annoyed by having to deal with that literally any time you aren't in a menu for 30+ hours? Really?

 

Whatever. To each their own, I guess. This whole thing started because I said RAGE had better gunplay. lol.

 

Gunplay should be a big deal don't get me wrong, but in spite of how mediocre it is in Borderlands I feel it's still entirely passable at least, and the other aspects I mentioned are enough to carry the experience the rest of the way.

 

I do agree entirely on Fallout 3 and Skyrim though.  Their combat mechanics are among the worst I've ever seen in either of their respective genres, way below Borderlands in quality, and their writing is awful too.  So they have basically no redeeming qualities outside of a general sense of atmosphere.   Outside of nostalgia I genuinely don't get why they're held in such high regard.

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Anyone else hoping for a new Elder Scrolls game to be announced at e3? It'd been 7 years since Skyrim came out and i just wanted to slaughter endless people in the name of Talos.

Just hope it goes more in the Oblivion direction than the Skyrim direction. And a combat overhaul would be great, but judging by Fallout 4 they haven't really learned anything in that regard.

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It's less about me wanting you to say what I want to hear and more the fact that I addressed/quoted you directly in two posts that never received a response. I mean I asked your interest in halo in general and then after that never got responses about Beach LAN specifically. Like I said others ended up answering on their own with plenty of valid reasons. However, those people often aren't talking down to others about competitive merit and game mechanics so I was very interested in what is stopping you from going specifically.

 

So it's a combo of the game running at 30fps and the fact that you are playing against people who never stopped playing since launch that's stopping you. I think that's fair enough it just is weird to see such constant complaints about Halo when this exists as an outlet. Not saying the complaints aren't valid, just trying to see if there is an actual desire to play a form of Halo you might enjoy. If I had to guess it seems like most of the enjoyment actually comes from the ability to talk down about the series on a website that is primarily focused on it.

It was a strange question to begin with, man. What do you want? You asked right after I had said that Halo had a lot of core elements worth refining and I was interested in the potential for future (new) competitive Halo games on PC. I genuinely think it could be big if executed well. I guess I don't understand what led you from that to traveling to Florida to LAN an old console game with an extremely tiny scene. I'm sure it's a good time, but that's quite the time/resource investment.

 

CE has a lot of interesting elements, but it's not perfect and, if I'm honest, it hasn't aged that great next to modern esports with years of growth and support. It's probably my favorite in the series overall, but if I really wanted to go to a LAN for a competitive FPS, it would probably be Counter-Strike or Quake at this point.

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just played Echelon for the first time (custom game) ... uhhhh ... it feels like an H5 dev map, and I don't mean that as a compliment. 

 

not saying that I agree with Multi or anything!  but I'm not in love with this map ...

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H5 has the tightest skillgap of the entire franchise. Thoughts?

CE would like a word with you.

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